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Update. She broke the silence.

8K views 75 replies 18 participants last post by  lost_without_her 
#1 ·
Well, today I got the text message I've been dreading, but it hasn't turned out so bad. My wife sent a text randomly saying that she doesn't hate me, but doesn't want a relationship with me and found a place. She's hopeful that we can be friends maybe in the future and go do things together some day. We'll need to be cordial for the sake of my son, so I'm glad that she is at least receptive to the possibility of being friends.

I was very humble with my response, and didn't fight her. I told her that I think the world of her, and that I would help in any way I could with moving or whatever. I still hate this to death, but it's sinking in more and more that she just does not want to be with me, and I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. She doesn't even want anything. She's taking her clothes, and some basics. That's it. It's going to be simple and clean.

So, that really sucks. That being said, I'm ok and staying focused on myself. I'm really happy for her that she has found her independence and is moving towards the life she wants, whatever that may be. I truly hope she finds happiness, but I won't mind if one day she regrets not taking the chance to see the man I will become. I absolutely refuse to lose. Being brutally honest with myself, by the time I accomplish my goals, and I will... I don't know if I'm going to want her back anymore.

I have to learn to have some self-worth. I made some bad mistakes, but I can't take them back now, and I can't let them drag me down the way I brought her down. I'm my own worst enemy. I have to quit that. Nonetheless, the fact is that she isn't willing to see me through this. I have to stop caring so much about people who don't care enough about me. I don't blame her for one second, but even the prospect of me becoming a truly changed man doesn't excite her, and my hurdle now is to stop caring about her so much... Therein lies my biggest challenge. Not even sure how to do that. Emotions should come with an app and lots of options.

Really, the only thing that can cure me is time, I'm sure. Long, hard time. I'm going to be in a prison of sorts. But, I'm going to work hard, get good time served off my sentence, and go out and get what I deserve in this world. If my wife would have never betrayed me the first time, I know we'd have been an amazing couple. We were anyway at times, but nothing like we could have been. I really need a rock in my life. I need someone who won't betray me even once. I'll know how to avoid my anger issues and make much better choices regardless going forward, but I'm hoping for something optimal. Most importantly, I'm going to become the confident person I once was and then some. I'm going to be sure that I will make someone lucky to have me one day, and I'll be sure to remember how lucky I am to have them.

I hit a milestone today in my anger management. It's kind of crazy. 5 days ago or so, I started making my "anger ID map." If you don't know what that is, you start from the beginning of your life and try to make a timeline of significant events that caused your anger or triggered it. So, I did that, and had quite a lot of reflection about how my reaction only ever brought me more pain. The funny thing is though, I completely neglected something that should have been obvious to me. I honestly don't even know what triggered the thought, but I remembered something late last night that just came to my thoughts from nowhere, and I think that my behavior has been learned to some degree. The problem is, I learned it from the man I think most of in the world.. My dad.

My mother and father divorced when I was three years old. My mother cheated on my father. It was bitter at times between them. You can imagine, I have been sensitive about cheating and betrayal my whole life. I hate it. It's so pointless. Anyway, that's the first thing on my ID map. What I omitted from my map was something that I think I have kind of repressed over the years. I think I did that, because my dad is really the only person who never betrayed me in my life. The only one. I never wanted to think of him as being wrong or acting out of character without good reason. He was diagnosed with diabetes when he was 17 and robbed of his dream to go in the Air Force. He died when I was 24. He had it as bad as a diabetic can have it throughout his 30+ year struggle.

But here's the issue. My sister and I would go stay with my dad every other weekend. On occasion, my dad's mom would come over to visit with us. Instantly, my dad would become very angry. He was always so hateful towards her, if he would say a word at all. Often times, he would just sit there looking mad and completely ignore her. I never fully understood why he was like that. I asked a few times, but he didn't want to spoil our view of her. He never explained it to me at all. After he died, my uncle later told me that my grandmother was pretty much crazy while they were growing up. She apparently jumped out of a car moving at 50+ miles an hour because my dad and his brothers "didn't love her enough."

Long story short, my dad had a lot of unresolved anger issues. You wouldn't have known it.. He was a genuinely caring person until you crossed him. Once you did, he NEVER let go of a grudge. He disowned his best friend of 16 years, because he didn't show up to Thanksgiving dinner one year. He said he was coming, and then didn't come or call. That was it. They never spoke again. As much as I loved my dad, I'm realizing that he never really explained much of anything to me. I will always worship him, but I have to realize that I was set up to fail. It was a different world then, where dad's didn't have much responsibility to their kids in a divorce situation. He just kind of expected us to follow his examples, and we did, as long as we were with him. Disappointing him was like a knife right through your heart. We just didn't see him enough, and when we did, he just never really gave us much guidance. He was sick. We didn't expect it, but we needed it.

Anyway, I'm sorry to chew your ear off, it just helps me to write it all out. I got my car today, and have realized so much in yet another 24 hours. I'm not a mess like I thought I would be when she told me she found a place. I know I have to stay strong and let her go. So, it's not so bad. I'm going to do me just like she's doing her. I must. Thank you all again. You have been so supportive and helpful. I know some lows are coming, but I'm ready. No time to waste, right?
 
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#2 ·
LWH, glad to see that you are doing some self reflection and going to get the help you need. A counsellor can help you explore your past and the triggers for your anger.
Betrayal is difficult on the most stable of persons, your wife's cheating already laid the foundation for the mistrust and anger. That is not to say you are still responsible for yourself.
The best thing you can do is work on becoming a better man and then give you heart to someone who will take care of it. There are plenty of women out there who will not cheat on you.
 
#3 ·
Why would you entertain the notion of helping her or trying to be friends with her?

You can be adequate or even great co-parents without being friends.

Do not allow her to rely on you to get her emotional needs met. She needs something done? Politely...no. she wants a shoulder to cry on? Politely...no. or more cynically...Sorry, but you fired me.

Can you imagine the look on your future girlfriend's face when you tell her that you're going to help your ex-wife move something? Or that you have to listen to your next wife vent about her day?

Not only that, but I think this ties into your self worth as well.

The single best thing you can do is cut her out of your life for every function but what is absolutely necessary for co-parenting.
 
#8 ·
You may find that at least some of your "anger issues" may suddenly disappear for a long while. But know that the ability to lose your temper is still there.
Sometimes, a lot of anger is not necessarily a bad thing when you are wronged. But you've seen thathow you release it causes more pain in most cases if it's unrestrained.
I've learned how to restrain mine, but it's taken many years.
And it's still there and needs constant restraint, Vigilance. I have to always catch myself when feeling it come on.

Your happiness will come back. You don't need her to be happy.
Time will help tremendously, but acceptance which you seem to be finding is the key. I think a lot of people never completely accept that the part of their life is over, and that it's not a bad thing totally.
Those people suffer!
Glad you're not wanting to be one of those.
 
#11 ·
Because trying to remain friends with her will set him up for huge regressing and falling back into the quagmire of hoping she will be more than just a friend one day. If she isn't cheating AGAIN and just wants out, years down the road they might be friends or aqusintances. Right now he should consider her as someone to completely avoid, so that he can heal.
 
#19 ·
Well, today I got the text message I've been dreading, but it hasn't turned out so bad. My wife sent a text randomly saying that she doesn't hate me, but doesn't want a relationship with me and found a place. She's hopeful that we can be friends maybe in the future and go do things together some day. We'll need to be cordial for the sake of my son, so I'm glad that she is at least receptive to the possibility of being friends.

I was very humble with my response, and didn't fight her. I told her that I think the world of her, and that I would help in any way I could with moving or whatever. I still hate this to death,
That's because this is a NUMBER 3

Do you understand that terminology?
 
#23 ·
I very much respect all of your opinions. Believe me, it's something that I have wrestled with, but being willing to have a friendship with her is also part of being a bigger person. Don't get me mistaken though. I don't have any intentions of allowing it to stunt my progress in any way. I won't be taken advantage of, and she's just honestly not that kind of person even remotely. She's always been a very giving person. It would help if you knew her of course. Everyone who meets her falls in love with her. She always understood that life was too short to be angry.

Yes, I will hope that it will result in a chance to reconcile. The key to me is being confident in myself and not letting it bother me if it doesn't turn out the way I want. I will still appreciate her friendship. I honestly don't think it's healthy to be cold and short. I guess that might be more appropriate if she was really trying to take advantage of me and needed to get a stern message from me, but I see no reason at all for that here. Being cold toward her, especially when I don't really feel that way, isn't going to give her any reason to think I am any different than I ever was. If a person has to be cold as part of their process to move on, then I guess so be it, but I just don't feel that way. The last thing I need for my progress is to be angry and hold on to it. That doesn't mean I'm going to torture myself, but I really want to give it an honest effort. To be honest, I doubt that she will even ever pursue it. I wouldn't maintain a close friendship with her once I've moved on and have a girlfriend, and I'm sure she won't either when she has a boyfriend. I hate to even talk like that, because I truly hope it doesn't come to that. I think she understands as well that the dynamics will change depending on the situation. At the end of the day, we'll have more respect for each other even when it would come down to mostly contact to meet with my son. I'll have more respect for myself.

I have made her life hard enough. I really never meant to do that, and the last thing I want to do is be difficult and keep making it hard. This isn't something she's interested in doing anytime soon by any means. A lot could change, and probably will. I don't expect she'll be single long. I don't know how long she'll wait before dating, but once she does, then we won't be going and doing things together. I will still consider her a friend always.

In all honesty, I think one of two things are possible... one remote possibility is that she has a change of heart before the ink is dry, and I've got lots of wishes in for that one. The other possible, and likely outcome is that she continues to enjoy her new found independence and only feels more secure in her decision. I mean, it took her less than a week to decide. She had a place of her own by day 10. I think she's trying to be optimistic for my sake, but the only way we will probably end up hanging out again is if she does have a change of heart. I hope for the best. I hope we can hang out and learn to be friends again before she completely moves on with her life. It's best for any chance to get back together, and I feel it's best for me in becoming a bigger person. We shall see.
 
#25 ·
Very mature post, lost. I am impressed.

Very glad Faithful Wife was here to offer mature advice, too.

If you follow what FW has said and what the Ultimate Husband website can offer, you will surely come out of this wiser and stronger than you came into it.

Your humility and willingness to own your own hand in your troubles makes me respect you, lost, and feel compassion for you. All the best moving forward.
 
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#32 ·
LWH,

Good discussions going on here, but I'd like to offer you what I think is a clear path. First of all, you are doing a great job of processing all of this and taking responsibility for your role in the marriage. The fact that you want to come out of this a better man and better future husband (whether it is with your current wife or another) is exactly what you should be doing. The unexamined life is not worth living, right? So keep working on the issues that will improve you.

You have to make a decision on what you want. It sounds like you want to reconcile with your wife. If that is the case, then go all in with this objective. Be strategic about this and don't expect reconciliation to happen organically. It takes a plan. Give her every opportunity to see the man that you have become and without drowning her in relationship talk and acting desperate, let her know that the door to reconciliation is open. Meet her emotional needs without drowning her or suffocating her. You can do this from a distance by simply showing you care. Send her care packages occasionally, bring over comfort food when she's sick, text her caring messages once in a while. Do things things and expect nothing in return. Set a goal to win her back, but give that goal and expiration date (6 months to 2 years, whatever time period you can endure). If after that time, your efforts haven't won her back, then its time to move on and go dark. No contact for life.

If your wife does decide to reconcile, you must affair proof your marriage and set boundaries for 100% transparency. You must also commit to nurturing the marriage by assertively and intentionally meeting each other's emotional needs and avoiding the things that tore the two of you apart. Marriage is intentional, not some passive activity that glides on autopilot.

If you do not reconcile, then I would recommend no contact for life. Your wife betrayed you. She let you go. Friends don't do this. I don't know of any healthy friendships that are based on betrayal and abuse. You don't end the friendship out of resentment, vindictiveness and anger; you do it out of the need to move forward and not have to carry baggage down your future new and happy life.

Above all, this is a process. Give it the time it needs. You are a thoughtful man, and you are taking some good steps. I just want to be sure that you are clear on your objectives.
 
#33 ·
Thank you, Rick. I very much appreciate your advice. That all seems like sound information. I have definitely made it clear to her that I won't take my ring off until the ink is dry. Right now, I'm trying to choose my opportunities wisely and let her drive while becoming a better person. In my heart, I want her back more than anything. She knows that, but she just has no faith. I will try my best to restore it exactly without being desperate or overbearing in any way. This morning we had a brief conversation about some finances. It was pleasant and we even joked a bit. She more or less had nothing to say to me for 9 days. I'm just happy to be somewhat in her good graces again for the moment.

Something that has really bothered me lately is that she kept telling me she needed contacts. For months she told me this. Since moving out here, we had a lot of catching up to do. We moved three states away, and it was pretty costly. I was focused on absolute necessities. Having only been here 10 months, there have been a lot of extra expenses for things we needed. I just kept putting it off and basically ignoring her, and I figured we'd get to it. So anyway, I told her that I would really like to buy her some contacts soon if it would just seem like an insult to her. She said she'd think about it. I assured her I wasn't going to fight with her about what little finances we have to untangle. There's really just one small debt and a few leftover bills we'll go half on. I offered to help in any way I could, but definitely at her discretion, and I won't push it if she doesn't ask.

I can't ever cut her out completely, at least not for some years. She and my son remain close. He's 14, and I wouldn't force him to stay out of her life. It's his decision. They love each other very much. It may boil down to them growing apart someday, but until then there will be contact at least once or twice a year when she picks him up for a dinner, movie, etc.. Once he's off to college, or once we have new relationships, then things will probably fade out. I hate to even imagine that, because it is not at all what I want, but I do deffinitely have to stay focused on making the changes I need to make to be happy with myself. Controlling my anger is going to be 90% of that, and I honestly feel I'm as close as I've ever been to understanding how to go about that. I know I am. You all have given me the tools along with my anger mgmt exercises. I'm all in to any degree that will be appropriate. The world brought us together once, and it just may again someday. If not, and a friendship works. I'm for it to a point. If I have no success getting her back, I'll be happy that I'm a bigger person and that I'm better prepared for the future.
 
#38 ·
Gifts will be seen as desperation.

You just don't get that she has made a choice to LEAVE you.
I'd this is kinda sudden and she's found her a place already, it will likely have a Y chromosome in it quickly.
You are going to try to follow JLD' sand rick's advice and nice her back "win her back"--- because that's what your emotions want you to do. Your emotions will screw you over.

You are not accepting that your wife is gone. It takes a while......
I personally think you're going to be in limbo for a long time, even after she's dating.

She won't give you the time of day until you stop caring.
I wish you reach acceptance quickly.
 
#39 ·
OP is facing it more than some of our posters here on the thread.

This isnt sudden for her, she has been checked out for some time now. She has turned to other men throughout their marriage, which proves she has not been invested in the marriage for a while. OP seems to know he needs to come to acceptance and seems set on working on himself, which I commend him for. That will make him a better partner when a GOOD woman finally comes into his life.
 
#41 ·
He is doing a lot better than I was at this point. I think he is in a good place mentally and will eventually see things as they are and move on.
I disagree with people giving him false hope of reconciliation because it will hurt him.

As you have pointed out, 3x, she has been gone mentally for a long time. He has virtually zero chance with her. And he will likely be far happier with someone else, even if she returned to the "marriage"...
 
#42 ·
I disagree with people giving him false hope of reconciliation because it will hurt him. As you have pointed out, 3x, she has been gone mentally for a long time. He has virtually zero chance with her. And he will likely be far happier with someone else, even if she returned to the "marriage"...
I did not realize that his wife is a serial cheater. That was not mentioned in this thread but must have been mentioned in a thread he posted before this one. If she has cheated on him multiple times, then the hope for reconciliation is extremely narrow and doubtful.
 
#45 ·
I think some comments on this thread are fairly idealistic and altruistic, but my limited life experience has been quite the opposite. I suppose reality is all over the map for many of us, but there is an overall average of our experiences and I doubt it is as optimistic as what the OP would like to believe.

I applaud the OP for owning his faults and vowing to do better, but my fallible opinion is it is too little, too late. I encourage the OP to not make the mistake of trying to compensate for his past faults by being more willing to tolerate her faults ... this only ensures mutual destruction. I felt this way when my ex betrayed me and it only caused me self loathing at a later time. Do not sacrifice your dignity. It will only set you back in the trajectory of your progress.
 
#50 ·
LWH, that post was not directed at you, dear! :)

However, that said... please do not tell yourself that texts are not as serious, because even though it was "just" texts and not physical (that you know of), it was still your spouse turning away from your marriage and toward other men. She was very much in the wrong, and please dont let anyone do this to you in the future.
 
#51 ·
You can be a co-parent with her without being her friend.

If there is an emergency, like her and your child being caught out and broke down on the freeway, and she needs someone to come get them... then absolutely go and pick them up.

If there is an emergency like the air conditioner on her house breaking down, and its 100 degrees out, and your child is living in that house, then you can loan her the money to get it fixed.

If she needs to coordinate pickup times, needs you to attend a teacher conference, or if there is a play at school, then obviously you can cooperate with her.

None of these things require you to be a friend to her. But if she starts talking to you about feelings, or going back and rehashing all the mistakes you made as a husband for the 1000th time, or complaining about her aches and pains, or asking you if she should start back on birth control once she starts screwing other guys....NO....You don't stick around and be there for that crap. You are not her girlfriend. You are not her confessor. You are no longer a confidante.
 
#52 ·
I really think this is a clear case of:

A wife who is clearly cheating and has lost feelings for her husband.

The cheater has shifted all blame to her husband who has taken it hook, line, and sinker.

He wants this all to be his fault so that he can fix it and win her back.

OP would be better off continuing to let her go totally. I really think she is a serial cheater and will do this with anyone she's with.

OP will need to remember this about her when she comes a- callin' when she gets in a relationship with her next guy. He may mistakenly think she wants to get back together when she really just wants attention.
 
#53 ·
Let me correct you, Evin. A wife loses feelings first, and then cheats. The important thing to understand is why she lost feelings to begin with. You're really making more of this "friend" thing than it is. She didn't suggest it to keep me on deck, it was consolation prize. If and when it becomes a reality to any degree, please know that I'm no fool. I'm really not. I know the difference between being used and appreciated. I have no intentions of being her confidant in the event she moves on to another man. I'm done some stupid things, but I'm not that stupid.

Nobody has shifted any blame. She's perfectly willing to admit her mistakes as well. I'm not making it up when I tell you that I was terrible to her. I would have cheated on me too. That doesn't excuse it, but I have punished her enough for that already. And don't get me wrong.. a betrayal is a betrayal... at the end of the day, the texting was cheating. However, she never quit paying the price for it. I never let her live it down. If you're going to commit to someone, then be willing to do your part. I believe you should be willing to give your all, regardless of what they do. I wish I would have. I want to know that I gave it my all. I'm going to give it my all now, and if it's too little too late, then so be it. I think you're just not really being objective about this, and maybe judging from your own experiences.

When she moves on to the next guy, I won't be around. If it comes to that, I can guarantee you that she won't be reaching out anyway.
 
#54 ·
Let me correct you, Evin. A wife loses feelings first, and then cheats.
Each and every time?

It briefs well, and fits a certain narrative, but way off the mark of reality.

That's okay. Your mind is made up. Take care, brother.
 
#55 ·
If it makes you happy to be the Fall guy then be that person.

Her EXH is the Summer guy. Her other two texting guys are Spring [in his step] and Winter Cool Guy.

Humor aside, do whatever makes YOU happy.

Humility and self effacement never won a battle. It does [help] get you through the Pearly Gates.
 
#57 ·
I would submit that when a person cheats, they don't have feelings for you that are strong enough to care about protecting you and treating you right. I would say in most cases they didn't really have strong feelings to begin with, or their feelings became diminished to a point they were willing to cheat. I'm not any expert, but that makes sense to me. You're all assuming a bit too much suggesting I'm going to be the fall guy. She's just not the vindictive type. For example, I told her she could let me have it the other day if it would make her feel better. She told me it might actually, but she could never do that to me. She's not a selfish person. I was the selfish one in our marriage.
 
#58 ·
I would submit that when a person cheats, they don't have feelings for you that are strong enough to care about protecting you and treating you right. I would say in most cases they didn't really have strong feelings to begin with, or their feelings became diminished to a point they were willing to cheat. I'm not any expert, but that makes sense to me. You're all assuming a bit too much suggesting I'm going to be the fall guy. She's just not the vindictive type. For example, I told her she could let me have it the other day if it would make her feel better. She told me it might actually, but she could never do that to me. She's not a selfish person. I was the selfish one in our marriage.
If this is true, then what makes you think you have what it takes to be her friend?
 
#65 ·
Andy, that's one I'll take with me forever. Well said. Farside, I hadn't ever looked at it like that. I honestly don't know. I don't think so. I lived in a small town most of my life. I met my first wife in highschool. We were way too young. We rushed our marriage because I went in the military. It was the only way to stay together. We got an amazing kid out of the deal, so I can't say it was a mistake... but.. it was a mistake. We were nowhere near ready for marriage, and she was not a good person to me ever. When we divorced and she got primary custody of my kid, it really tore me up. I think that's the point that my anger really got out of control, and just throughout that marriage in general. I met my present wife at work. It's the only place I really ever met anyone new. We always kind of looked at it like fate.

Her mother got cancer when we were first starting to talk. She was scheduled for an operation in another city out of state on whatever day it was. The night before the operation, my mother had a heart attack. She was rushed to the same city. I had no clue where they were at. We pulled into the parking lot of a hotel a couple of blocks from the hospital my mother was being rushed too. We needed directions. While we were stopped, I called her to let her know what had happened. It turns out, we were in the parking lot of her hotel. There was a metro connecting the two hospitals where our mothers were having operations on the same day. We were both pretty crushed, and she took the metro over to meet me during my mother's bypass. We had this magical airport reunion moment, and the rest was history. There were quite a few things like that we looked at as signs of the world bringing us together. I think that I've just had some bad luck, and I just never loved myself enough to think I would do better. I know now that I can. I will.

Bandit, that is accurate, and that's another great saying. She wanted to get the divorce done in 3 weeks after she left just before my kid was coming for a visitation. (previous marriage) The way she's handled this in general has been really harsh, and I never could have imagined it would be like this. Somehow, it's still shocking to me, but the way she's acting is pretty well aligned with how she acted often times in our marriage. Very inconsiderate. It has really reminded me that there were so many times I didn't have a chance in the world of not getting angry, and she rarely showed any remorse for things she did. I always had to fish for an apology. One of the times I caught her being unfaithful to me, she got mad at me for being mad... she got up and tore every picture off the wall in our hallway. She always hated facing her faults. I definitely believe it now. I understand that I was awful, but I wasn't wrong about a lot of things. I doubt that she would have been happy, even had I been the model husband. Marriage... smh
 
#72 ·
JLD, I have had a couple of sessions with a counselor, and I have been doing an anger management program that was recommended for my situation. It has been very helpful. I have discussed our conversations here with the counselor. She was interested to know what kind of advice I was getting from here. When I told her, she said she felt like she was about to rob me of my money, because a lot of what she had to say was repetitive. Other than a bit more specific guidance and some resources, I really didn't learn much from the counselor that I hadn't already learned here. She encouraged me to continue coming here as long as it was helpful, but just cautioned me to beware of bad advice and told me to come back if I need to. For the last week, I've been doing really well with my anger management exercises and coming to the board. Once I have everything settled financially, I'm going to start seeing someone on a regular basis to keep myself on track. I'm so grateful for you all! Thank you so much!
 
#74 ·
PHP:

I am as of a couple of days ago.. it has to do with relying on everyone else but yourself to make you happy, and then becoming enraged when they disappoint you. Guilty as charged. Tonight, I don't even have the strength to process much. I had to put my dog down today, and it feels like the world is out to get me. Terrible timing. If I cry in my beer, I'll have the makings of a great country song.
 
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