manwithoutwife

The things with my wife were not going very well. We just had a baby and it was stressing us both. I also was looking for a job because I am going to be jobless in July. She has being jobless since we got married 1.8 years ago. We were facing some financial problems and I was afraid I was not going to be able to provide to my family. She also started attending school to get her teaching certificate just one month after having the baby so I was working and in charge of the baby when she was in school. The stress was consuming us both. I lost track of our relationship because I was working too much and taking care of the baby in my hours off.

I knew things were going bad. We went to pass xmas with her family. On the way I found pictures of her naked that she was sending to her exboyfriend. I tried to do the right thing while with her family but she was not cooperating. In xmas day she told me she wanted the divorce. I stayed with her family more days so it was awkward. I came back home and she stayed with her family. She brought my son to me and left the city to pass new years with her friends out of the city. She asked me to move out. I suggested counseling and we attended. I did not have a place to go and I ended up staying January and February in our home before moving out. In the meantime I discovered she had a crush with another man (she told me). I tried to do my best to get her back but she was just too aggressive. I don’t know if it is because I was in the middle of her and the other guy. Hope no. Everything used to make her mad at me. I left “our place” and try to fix the things. It did not work. She started dating another man after one month of separation (or that is what she told me). We communicate when she gives me my son and in the counseling therapy. I asked her to stop seeing this guy but she accused me of trying to control her and told me that it is not my business.

I give a lot of money for her to take care of our son and I also pass three nights a week with him. When I saw the marriage falling apart I asked her to give me time with her alone. I asked her to put the baby in day care to reduce her stress. She did not want it.

I essentially have conceded in anything she has wanted since then. She has the power because I am the one who wants our relationship to work. I have being consistent all the time and I have always let her know that I want another opportunity.

Now she demands me to pay daycare and child-support (more that i should if we were legally divorced) so she can attend to her school and have time to find a job. The last time I talked to her she asked me to take care of our son for the whole weekend (I am supposed to take him only the Sundays) so she could go to a festival out of town. I wanted her to have a good time so I agree, but with the condition that she did not go with this man. Needless to say, she accused me again of trying to control her and took my son with them. Our counseling session was only complaints about me trying to control her. She told me she is filing the divorce and she even brad about the other guy. I am losing my marriage and my son. She did not give me any chance to fix our problems.

I cannot live in the same city anymore. There is no job for me here so I will not see my son often. I have tried everything I can imagine to get her back. Nothing works and we are meeting to talk about divorce agreements this coming week. After all this, is there hope? Or I should just give up and move on (very hard).

Nsweet

So far what I'm seeing is....
Once she started attending school and you weren't meeting her high expectations she developed all this contempt for you and told herself "he's not a good bread winner.... I can do better.... I deserve better".

In December you saw the warning signs of an EA and when confronted she brought up divorce. I hate o tell you this but there affair would have been going on for about 6+ months at this point and she favored him more over you.

Don't try to compare yourself to him in any way because he's been filling her head with a load of crap about how much better he is than you and would be better for her.... it's all a lie and a relationship built on avoiding conflict. All that conflict has to go somewhere and she's placing it on you.

She may have been agreeing to go to counseling with you to "work on the marriage" but she was escaping out of town and sleeping with her ex. I recognize these lies about "just a friend", "stay out of my business", and "you're too controlling" right off the bat.

I can still tell you there is hope because if nothing else ..... she had a baby with you and you're going to have at least some contact with her in the future. But for now you have no other option than to take yourself out of the running and agree with her feelings.

You need to apologize to her for being so controlling in your marriage and keeping her from finding someone more deserving.... I know it's not what you want to say but it's what she needs to hear if you want to take away the stick she's beating you with.

After that prove that you're not controlling by giving up and not trying to work on your marriage anymore, avoiding contact with her until the affair is over. Every time you try to change her mind about divorce she's just going to keep attacking you and if possible restrict you from seeing your child to keep you away from her.

You've got a divorce meeting (mediation?) coming up, great! Show up with a smile on your face and act like it's no big deal because really it's not.... just a bunch of papers that need to be filed, but it doesn't take away the good memories and underlying feelings you have for each other.

You must agree with her as much as possible or come to an agreement that won't financially screw you over. If she demands full custody five it to her How long do you think she can last balancing motherhood, a secret affair that ended in divorce, lying to friends, family, and coworkers about why she divorced you.... getting tripped up along the way, the depression soon to follow divorce (and I've seen a lot of women come out of mediation in tears an hour after giving high fives to each other), and the loneliness that comes from cutting off close friends and family to be with the OM living without judgement for the horrible home-wrecking decision she's made?

You know that OM is jealous of you and won't be a good father or will at least fake interest to get sex.... that's what this is mainly about. Think about it.... you know exactly how she can be when she's not trying to be nice, he has yet to see this. He has yet to see the grumpy, disgusting, mean, PMSey, b!tch you grey to know and love.... add waking up every two hours to a baby crying it's head off to be fed, stress from work, don't touch me like that.... sometime after the fun wears off, and "Now I remember why I broke up with you [ex-boyfriend], you haven't changed a bit".... and you've got yourself a recipe for a relationship disaster.

So sit back, relax, and let him deal with all the crap you would have to deal with just waiting this this thing out and working on yourself. Yes you'll miss out on some things, and that sucks! But think of child support as your get out of bullsh!t pass. You're paying her to feed and clothe your child. All the house work, stress, depression, fights with the bf, and general more of the same she thought she could escape from come on her tab for both of them to pick up

manwithoutwife

Nsweet
Thank you for your words. They really helped to feel better. Let me clarify, the naked pictures were for her exboyfriend, I knew about her crush with another guy in January, and according to her, she just started dating this new guy one month after our separation. I am sure I am missing a lot of information (I remember phrases before xmas that she told me when rejecting me such as “go and get a lover”.)

She agreed to go to counseling but in our first meeting she said “there is nothing to do I want the divorce”. The rest of the meetings have been to talk about small conflicts that she makes big. A two minute conversation in the phone with her causes 40 minutes of therapy.

One of her reasons for the divorce according to her is that I was controlling her. I do not see how. She did what she wanted during our whole marriage. She left town when she wanted (she was jobless) to visit her family, she went out with (even male) friends, and she went to school whenever she decided to do so. I really trusted her.

No, it is not mediation yet. We will try to agree with the psychologist and if it does not work (as I expect it) we will try to agree about the mediator.

After divorce, she will have to be in charge of the baby because as I said I am not able to state in the state.

About her boyfriend, it is hard for me to believe that there is a man interested in a woman with less that a year old baby and with a husband asking her for an opportunity.

Nsweet

Don't sweat it, I got this!

She's telling you off so she can have more freedom with the OM and avoid feeling guilty thinking maybe you'll give her the fight she's looking for and be the one responsible for the divorce (at least in her mind). So give her the freedom she's asking for and the silent treatment right back.... and follow her direction about dating. Women can't stand it when you agree to the silent treatment.

She's trying to control you by setting harsh boundaries to keep you from chasing her, but the wayward spouse is often hypocritical to their own advice. She actually want you to chase her, it makes her feel good to see you beg her, and she knows if you do she can secure a place if she ever decided to come back. Don't don't chase her anymore!..... start spending your time with other women, divorce groups, early morning gym classes and such.

You see the adulterous wayward spouse can't stand to see you lose interest in them because it creates a fear of loss, the same fear of losing something precious you're going through. And by following the 180 stopping all needy actions you're really throwing a wrench in her plans. All you have to do at this point is get out of the house and spend time with other women a couple days a week.

I know you don't want to risk cheating, neither did I and stayed faithful to my marriage, so that's where cooking and dance classes are perfect.... really anything where can you make small talk with women will help you see how your wife doesn't deserve your affection right now.

BUT Sally from yoga needs a male friend to talk to, since her gfs keep filling her head with "go on girl" false hope, and want's someone to listen to her. More women than you can imagine appreciate the listening skills you learned in marriage. You're not there to fix them just listen. AND no emo divorce talky or they walky, OK.

Before you meet in counseling I want you to do whatever you can imagine to distract yourself from this whole problem and cheer yourself up. I don't care if it's watching the three stooges on your smart phone or sucking down half a helium balloon and singing in your car, just cheer up first.

When you do sit down in counseling and she starts b!tching about what a terrible person you are..... AGREE 100% to whatever she says and be sincere. "I didn't realize how controlling I could be. I can't control this situation or you W, and while I would like to save our marriage it's impossible. We'll finally do what you want and end this thing."

You know she's just blaming you to avoid taking responsibility and trying to force it on you. So take it, act "as if" you honestly accept this, and agree with her 100% with a sigh of relief and a smile on your face. This will completely throw her off and take away the stick she beats you with all at the same time. But like I said before she will need to see you prove this and you can't ever go back on these words. You take her down to the court house and give her the damn papers.

When you stop calling or chasing her through divorce, going dark for quite a while, don't be surprised to hear from her to A) ask if you're single, B) p!ss you off, C) try to get you to chase her, and D) ask if you're ok and why you're not calling. All of this will happen even after divorce, though some time much later after her freedom gets old. There's more to here which the 180 guide covers most of.

Don't even bother worrying over the affair. It's a rebound affair if I ever saw one.... so he's going to be put on a show of how he's better than the ex she gaslights and will do much better if only he could have her. Ever get a question in the middle of the night asking if you married for all the wrong reasons? He was the reason why. It's possible he also pressured her to get a divorce, though it's not always the AP, and her freedom date is something she's really looking forwards to so they can be official.

Again don't sweat it! He'll do just fine blowing it without your help when all his bullsh!t lies turn out to be just that, bullsh!t. It's simple bait & switch and a favorite tactic of losers, like the ones that chase affairs and break up marriages. Give him and her enough rope to strangle their love.

Now you have a lot of things working against you and need to be prepared to go through with divorce. That's ok, many women who dream of better life after divorce (with or without the AP) later regret it. Who else do you know is going to put up with the woman you did for so long, after the sex stops and the nagging begins? Something like 80% of WAW regret divorcing for an AP anyways.

Later in the future after you've taken time to heal you can start working on contact to see your son, but be prepared for her to act stingy and keep a close eye on you. That's OK, you'll just have to prove yourself to her first. You will anyways, but here it's special simply because you and that child of yours will develop a bond that any OM can't replace.

Over time you can steal her away for friendly dates taking the child to events..... this of course shows her A) you are a good father after all, B) you're no longer controlling and very agreeable, C) you've changed into someone she can respect, and my favorite D) makes the OM so jealous of your dates that HE gets controlling and blows it with her.

You just watch buddy. You have every capability of becoming the OM to her, or the BETTER MAN, and this scares the sh!t out of the guy she's with because he secretely knows he CANNOT replace you in her mind, all the firsts you had together, your place as the father, and keep you out of the picture no matter how much he complains.

Keep your head up!

Conrad

Manwithoutwife,

What was her childhood like?

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

manwithoutwife

Nsweet:
I really appreciate your advice.
I think you are right. There is nothing else to do.
I already lost her and she will not break up with the OM because of me.
The more time that passes the more crap I find out about her.
I do not have a choice but to let her go. I will do my best when I face her to smile and show her that all what she is doing is O.K.

Conrad:
About her childhood. According to her,
- She was a very good student.
- Her dad abandoned them one morning. He left her mom for another woman. He lived close by though, and he was checking on them. I found some old letters from her to her dad telling him how much she hates him. I do not know if she ever sent the letters. She stopped talking to him for many years. Now they talk though.
- Her mom struggled with money.
- She claims that she had a boyfriend in high school who abused her emotionally.
- She dated adults when she was under 18.
- She has a sister and two (half) brothers. I think they were good friends.
- She was in therapy for depression but not anymore.

Nsweet

Pffft well yeah, if you want to take the pessimistic easy way out and complain about what you cannot have right now, then you have lost her to the OM for good. But just for a second let's take another crack at this and see the silver lining through all these dark clouds.

For starters this affair gives her a chance to relive past trauma and work through it in her way. I'm guessing her father's abandonment left her feeling vulnerable in every relationship so she either hung on for dear life or checked out early to save herself the heartache - ahem, as in this situation. The good here is she can finally see what's it's like on the other side and what she missed out on later.

Also she gets to experience a completely different role with the OM and grow as a person. Often in relationships we assume a certain role and get frozen there when people expect the same and treat us the same day in and day out. At least this way she can pretend she's a big fish in a small pond for now. Though going completely against your own character often leaves you feeling artificial and empty no matter how attractive or interesting you appear on the outside - As in the persona she put on to keep the OM interested. The good about this is that she will get back in touch with the woman you married and learn a few things about what really makes her happy in any relationship.

You also get to experience new things and grow as well but the path for you is going to be rocky and take longer to reach the same end. As the betrayed spouse you will come out on top by continuously working on yourself and you're relationship skills. When they're relationship is breaking down and she starts reaching out to friends to talk to or reaching for another option as the biological father you'll always have a high spot on her list. The way you treat her during visitations, through the divorce, and after it's all over can really make a difference and change her expectation of you.... possible make her miss the better option once the Om has lost his new jerk smell.

It's important to remember your wife and the OM are not some Disney villain and perfect angel, they are certainly not Olive Oyl and Bluto. They are two people who thought they had more in common talking about their problems with each other instead of anyone else. They shared vulnerabilities and offered comfort promising futures greater than any reasonable thinking person could offer. Sure at first they joked about getting together and made small sexual comments or flirtations almost anyone is guilty of, but once the offer was laid out with enough love bank deposits the affair blossomed.

You have an even greater chance of attracting her back than you know. BUT you have time and many expectations of hers working against you. For now you have to let her leave exactly the way she wants and then go dark for some time until you're better healed. Take this time like a freakin blessing to work on your career, your body, your character, your parenting skills, and your patience like never before. You may think you're out of the match for good after what's-his-face kicked your sand castle and took your girl but you're really not out of the game yet. You just have to wait for his attraction to wear off and work on creating some of your own. And quite often when you absolutely don't want her and have found a better option..... she'll be back. It's almost like exes have "he's found someone better" spidey-sense and have to come back to mess it up.

manwithoutwife

Thank you for your advice. It makes me feel better. Are you a therapist?
I liked your previous advice better. I liked the paragraph when you told me he is a looser. He cannot get a single woman and instead look for one with emotional problems. Now you tell me about they having more in common.

Yes, that is my intention. To work on me and live her alone for a while. That will be easy because I am leaving the state in the near future.

I hope the divorce does not make us enemies. She is very aggressive. It seems that all I have done during our marriage is bad. All the little discussions that we had during our marriage are now a big deal. Even the ones I thought we had made an agreement and moved on.

She treats me very unfair. I give her a lot of money and release her of having to take care of the child a lot. But I am still horrible. She denied me everything. The other guy gets all that she denied me during our marriage. I asked her time without our son, going out to festivals and at night. The OM now gets everything when I take care of the child. It drives me crazy that she brags about him. My calls with her are very short and it is only to ask me for more money.

She has the power of screwing me over financially. I am her "easy" way to get money. My salary is much higher than what she can make with her skills. So I have to be very careful.

The story with her dad came out in a session. The therapist told me the same, that some of her behavior may be related to her relationship with her dad when she was young. I do not know if the therapy has being very helpful. I see it only as a bridge of communication. We would not meet otherwise. The therapist mediates the drama. I will let you know how the next session goes. Thank you.

manwithoutwife

An update,
We met in therapy and started talking about the terms of the divorce. I just wanted to stay calmed. I already accepted my situation and I am "ok" with the divorce. I got gum and focused on chewing it. She got crazy and just said terrible things about me. Stuff like "I wished I had never met you", etc. She left the room early. She is so angry with me and I just cannot figure out why.

She contacted me later to ask for more money (over the child support, the money is for something the kid needs but that should be covered with the child support). I want peace with her and an "amicable divorce" (actually i want my family together again)
but in order to do that I have to give her money every time she yells.
I do not know what to do. I do not understand how she can come from her boyfriend's house and ask me for (more) money.

UpnDown

She fvcked up her life and feels entitled to anything and everything you have. You want to know what you do?? You STOP GIVING INTO HER!

If she can't afford something beyond the child support, it's really not your problem. Food, cloths and shelter = child support requirements. Nothing less, nothing more.

Nsweet

She only lost it because she felt guilty and didn't want to accept responsibility for leaving you for an affair. I think she was expecting you to argue with her and when you didn't give her that ammo she attempted to blame shift and gaslight you to justify her decisions. I can't count the times I heard that line or something close to it.

You could be sweet as sugar and agree with her every step of the way, and she will continue to be angry with you and find another reason to push you away. Don't take it personally, it's actually a sign that your 180 is working just fine. She'll eventually tire herself out and reach out to you in a friendly manner if you avoid talking to her when she's being like this.

Do not enable her bad attitude or overstepping your boundaries with attention or extra money. You already gave her money and did what you were supposed to. Odds are she's stressing financially and the boyfriend isn't offering much help, so she's trying to guilt trip you with that all to common mean and sweet cycle. She needs to go to him for emotional and financial support and see how her better life won't work out.

And if you do give her money she will just keep coming to you to ask for more and give you "at a boy" affection. You're man enough to accept divorce, you can stand up to her and tell her "Ugh, no!" like a father to a bratty teenager. Stand up to her and she will hate you temporarily, but respect you all that much more.

Conrad

MWOW,

Stop paying her to leave you.

Has giving in ever calmed her down?

Why keep doing what doesn't work?

From your description of her childhood, she's emotionally broken.

Those folks have a helluva time accepting responsibility for anything. They're stuck in emotional childhood.

Many of the people in this forum are married to emotionally broken partners.

That's not an accident.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

manwithoutwife

An update, looking for advice.
My ex and I met last week with the therapist to talk about the divorce. Her behavior toward me changed from our previous visit to the therapist. That time she yelled, she told me how she hated me, cried and left the session early. I just chewed gum. This time we even made some agreements about the parenting plan. She asked me if I wanted us to remain friends. I just told her that she could contact me at any time for our son related issues. I suggested mediation and she agreed on it but told me she was not in a hurry and that I had to make the arrangements. She knows I am leaving the state for work at the end of July. But before she was threatening of filling divorce so we had to “agree” in court.

When she took our son to our place, a female neighbor started talking to her very nicely while I was grabbing my son. The woman left and my ex asked me if I was dating her. I was honest and told her no. I barely know this neighbor.
I don’t understand her attitude change.

Of course, I also saw my ex cloths for next day in her car, so she slept with the OM that night. ☹

Conrad

She's a pure victim. Her accusations are projection.

Ignore it.

Why should you drive a divorce you don't really want?

I'd stop doing anything and see what she does.

Work on yourself.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

Catherine602

Please listen to this. Stop letting her kick your azz. Man the eeff up. She sounds unstable if you let her walk all over you who will protect your child? Be their for him and for yourself.

None of what you said about your relationship indicates that you are at fault for this mess. In this economy many men are out of work, are their wives justified in treating the fatter of her kids and the man she is supposed to love like an arch enemy? How about having each others back and working together to get back on top?

Do you really think that you being overwhelmed by the circumstabces was an excuse for her to cheat on you? What happened to a partner supporting the other during difficult times. How is taking her time to go outside of the relationship at such a time even remotely justfied?

I don't want to add to your distress but I think you really need to reframe you analysis of this situation. You are not at fault, so stop paying her as if you are guilty. She will suck you dry.

Back her way the h@ll up and do it now. Be the man you were before these problems hit you. That will halve your problems. Putting an unstable person in the power role is desaterous.

Your identity as a man is derived from being able to take care of your family. Sometimes cercumstances interfer with your ability to do that. You manhood is still intact though. You are not sitting at home in front of the TV you are still out there searching.

That is being a man too, not giving up. You will be on top again but to do that you need to get back you self confidence. The first step is to get away from this toxic relationship and be firm about what you will do. If she can't handle custody maybe you can have more time with your kid.

Time for a change.
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