Morally, if one spouse (typically the W I presume) gives up part of her earning potential so that the other spouse can have a higher earning potential and thus a higher family income and lifestyle, then the marriage ends due to reasons beyond that spouses control, spousal support is morally correct until the earning potential is restored.
If the lower income spouse never had the higher earning potential in the first place, or did not enable the other spouse to have a higher earning potential, then there is no basis for spousal support, in my moral opinion.
If the lower income spouse destroys the marriage through infidelity or even just an individual choice to leave the marriage they should forfeit any continued benefits they were getting from the marriage, namely the lifestyle associated with the higher family income. If they are the ones that broke the contract why should they be rewarded? Why should the loyal spouse be punished further - their lifestyle already takes a big hit when the disloyal leaves, they already lose the additional earning potential they had.
And obviously, to me, anything gained DURING the course of marriage should always be equally divided, under any circumstances... but we aren't talking assets, we're talking income here.
So to the OP: what did your W sacrifice (in terms of earning potential) to be a SAHM and how much did you benefit by having her raise your children allowing you to have a full time career? How much do you feel is reasonable to help her restore her earning potential to where it should be today?
Lon,
She had no college or other career that she was giving up. My career was not really helped along by her staying at home. My advancement was purely my own by taking examiniations and going before selection boards. She never wanted a career until the marriage starting going south. I paid for her schooling to obtain her certificate in medical billing and coding which is what she chose. I am also willing to pay for advanced schooling to allow her to enter the job market at a higher rate of pay. I offered 750$/month which is more than reasonable. She wants a share of my retirement which I am not going to budge on in light of the adultery. If this was awarded somehow by a court then I just won't retire from the military but will enter my next career and retire from there which thankfully under VA law, that retirement would be considered separate property.
In the end, I have offered her enough to set her up in a good career, take care of back medical bills, help her move, give her enough to get a nice apartment, gave her one of the cars, get her starter furniture and the kids furniture so they can visit/live with her. I think I have been more then fair in my offer but she just wants more. It may be my time to get my attorney and file the contested D and just win by default but I am not like that. I am trying to end this with dignity and respect.
When I left my husband I did not ask for spousal support. I was the only one with a lawyer and I only asked for 200 a month for child support. I was making more money then my ex with 2 minimum wage jobs. He worked part time working minimum wage. He was too busy sleeping with other women and racking up the credit cards. He even took a credit card in my name a month after I left him. He had stolen my checkbook and drivers license out of my car. I lived in an area where it was safe from theft. Or so I thought.
I tried so hard to get away from my ex. He was using illegal drugs, abusive, unfaithful and extremely controlling. His behavior is so much worse today then 18 years ago. I was only with him 2 years total. We had one child together and I only married him due to being pregnant and thinking I was doing the right thing. Boy was I wrong.
My ex h tried taking me back to court for a modification to lower support. He told my daughter over and over, I was stealing all his money. When in fact he stole mine through identity theft. This was 18-19 years ago, so I was not able to protect myself and make him pay that credit card. I let it go. Somehow it was a 10,000 bill. He took my other credit card and maxed that too. I had never used it and luckily it was only 2-3 thousand dollars. The court allowed me to only pay my one credit card instead of splitting it instead of splitting the debt in half due to his horrid spending habits. He was 20-30 thousand in credit card debt and I had to pay the 2-3k that I never used. In the last 18 years he filed bankruptcy 3 times. He and his wife harassed me through the years that I was stealing his money and all I cared about was money. Dang, they are so ignorant. I'm so happy my daughter is an adult now. My ex hates my daughter and stopped talking to her at 15. He's such a scumbag.
I learned a very good life lesson out of this. I set my standards much higher as far as dating went. Then I met my now husband a few years later. I've had the best last 13 years of my life with him. I no longer get child support and I supported for my daughter myself and with the support of my current husband. My daughter still wants to be in her biological fathers life, but he won't allow it. It hurts her that she can not have a relationship with her step siblings.
I'll take a different approach than I've seen here. I think you SHOULD pay her spousal support for the next 13 years. $1,000 per month.
SHE should also pay YOU child support for the next 13 years. $1,000 per month.
The spousal support would be a deduction for you on your taxes and would be income on her taxes. The child support isn't income or a deduction for either of you.
So, net-net, you would be getting roughly $250 per month net income from this equal transaction.
By the way, this is one legitimate reason to have a lawyer...to advise you about the tax implications of the agreements you make.
Lon, She had no college or other career that she was giving up. My career was not really helped along by her staying at home. My advancement was purely my own by taking examiniations and going before selection boards. She never wanted a career until the marriage starting going south. I paid for her schooling to obtain her certificate in medical billing and coding which is what she chose. I am also willing to pay for advanced schooling to allow her to enter the job market at a higher rate of pay. I offered 750$/month which is more than reasonable. She wants a share of my retirement which I am not going to budge on in light of the adultery. If this was awarded somehow by a court then I just won't retire from the military but will enter my next career and retire from there which thankfully under VA law, that retirement would be considered separate property.
In the end, I have offered her enough to set her up in a good career, take care of back medical bills, help her move, give her enough to get a nice apartment, gave her one of the cars, get her starter furniture and the kids furniture so they can visit/live with her. I think I have been more then fair in my offer but she just wants more. It may be my time to get my attorney and file the contested D and just win by default but I am not like that. I am trying to end this with dignity and respect.
I am talking the bigger picture, not her career or education, but potential and opportunity cost of marrying you. Her earning POTENTIAL. And yes she did give up earning potential to suit the role of your spouse in the family.
And absolutely YES your career WAS helped along by her, your advancements (which were a result of your hard work and dedication) were only made possibly while also having a family because of her role in the marriage and family. If you were a single half time parent you would be in no place to advance your career unless you had hired a nanny to take care of your parental responsibilities. You chose to make a family with her and thus your earning potential (opportunity for career advancement) to contribute to the family income was increased by having a mother (whether or not you criticise her skills as such) to take care of the duties you would otherwise have had to be serving.
That being said, you certainly appear to be willing to do what you believe is right so I'm not criticising you in any way, merely pointing out that your ex DOES have SOME entitlement to her share of what you have created. As for your retirement, that is pretty much an accrued asset, so why wouldn't she be entitled to the interest income of her share of that savings? I'm not trying to say you should surrender everything she wants or feels entitled to, she could be asking way too much for all I know, I just want you to realize, as despicable as she is, she did contribute, so for your own benefit do not become resentful or bitter about what part of the family benefits go her way.
I just believe that spousal support should not be a permanent condition, its to help her restore her own earning potential, and if she is not using the spousal support for that purpose it becomes her problem if she doesn't want to realize that potential. It is too bad different jurisdictions view this all so differently.
Papa,
I have been thinking alot about that approach. I know SS is tax deductable which is a very attractive reason to pay SS. My situation won't allow for what you have suggested because I am active duty military. In order to get that kind of child support, I would have to have sole custody of my kids which would make me a single parent which would cost me my job. Otherwise I would be all for it. The best I can do right now is joint 50/50 custody while I am in home port and she will have temporary custody while I am deployed. I will be paying child support while I am gone. I am trying to avoid it being court ordered but we shall see how this unfolds.
@Lamaga - That is my plan for right now is to wait her out while having my own attorney for advice and if I need to file, to be able to pull the trigger on a moment' s notice. He will be on retainer.
@ILWMH - Sorry to hear that your ex was such a POS. I know you are in a better spot now with new H and I hope that is where I will be in a few years. I'm trying to emerge from this with my financial dignity intact. Never again will I be married to someone who doesn't work or doesn't sign a pre-nup absolving me of all support responsibilities (except children of course).
Lon,
I get what you are saying and that is the other side of the debate about spousal support in general. I believe my STBXW received her "marital share" already during the marriage. She lived off of my income during the marriage and was fed/housed/clothed/medically covered, etc. She left the marriage and so those benefits go away as well. In my opinion, which I know is not legal fact right now, she received her share and is no longer entitled to my bounty.
Whether or not she contributed to my career success is another debate. Other than birthing the children her services were not required after that. My family or hers would have been more than happy to care for the kids while I was gone and they would have been compensated for their efforts.
Being that I am a good person and don't wish to leave her destitute, I did pay for her initial education and am willing to pay for advanced education to bring her earning potential above minimum wage so she can provide for herself and our children while they are in her care with the help of my child support.
I do agree with you in that spousal support, like welfare, should not be a permanent thing but a temporary one under certain circumstances and that NEED of SS should be PROVEN rather than an entitlement created by virtue of marriage. SS should only cover the shortfall in income experienced by the lower earning spouse for a defined period until the spouse's income can be raised enough to cover that shortfall on their own. No one should EVER profit of "support" payments.
Papa,
I have been thinking alot about that approach. I know SS is tax deductable which is a very attractive reason to pay SS. My situation won't allow for what you have suggested because I am active duty military. In order to get that kind of child support, I would have to have sole custody of my kids which would make me a single parent which would cost me my job. Otherwise I would be all for it. The best I can do right now is joint 50/50 custody while I am in home port and she will have temporary custody while I am deployed. I will be paying child support while I am gone. I am trying to avoid it being court ordered but we shall see how this unfolds.
Ah...I was assuming that you had primary custody because of your W's absence. Makes sense though. Overall, though, my take is that there probably is some moral obligation to help her get on her feet. As much as is possible, though, I would push for as short a duration as possible, even if it means paying her a bit more per month. No way I would voluntarily agree to something as open ended as "until retirement from the military".
Papa,
Concur. I will push for something VERY limited in scope. I don't like having to pay it but I do recognize that money for her is not going to fall out of thin air at this point. I don't want the support to be monetary. Maybe I can pay her rent or something like that. The cool part about VA is that ANYTHING can be put into the agreement and once signed by the parties and approved by the judge, it becomes law so to speak. I am thinking short duration SS, help with schooling, and CS when I am gone and maybe some money for her time with the kids since her income is significanly lower than mine.
I agree with you completely, I just didn't want to presume anything about her qualities or lack thereof. Though I think by virtue of marriage alone there is some entitlement created, which is why I think its important for spouses to have a backbone sometimes and not allow or tolerate it (I personally know how that goes, last few years I was tolerating way too much, and so was my ex). I also agree spousal support is not about "profit" its about reparation to earning potential (as twisted as that is for the one who was wronged to be the one to have to make the expenditure).
I would really just wait for your lawyer to advise, because if you claim she lost no earning potential, then why even offer up anything at all, morally you are not helping the cause by giving away stuff to people who did nothing to earn it? But I suspect deep down you realize there were in fact contributions she made which is why you would feel wrong leaving her destitute, and why I think you are doing right by offering to pay enough to get her reasonably established. As to the amount, that's where negotiation comes in, it can't simply be what YOU believe is a reasonable amount (though in reality I suspect you are probably pretty darn close, just a matter of going through all this rigamorole.)
@conrad,
I know, my lawyer informed me of this. He said we can agree to everything, sign it and the judge could reject it. He has seen rejections in the areas of child support but never in the areas of spousal support. The agreement must be in the best interest of the child which makes sense.
I guess the other thing I don't understand is that since a majority of people I talk to are against spousal support, why do our laws still allow for it? Maybe time to get politically active.
Glad you asked!
I am asking for SS. My husband cheated on me and refused to leave the marital home. Married almost 29 years. Children are grown. Both of us work, however, he makes twice the income I do. I moved into a smaller home, with a roommate, in order to cover the rent and expenses. He gets to maintain the marital home and cover the expenses with his own money, with money left over for his "fun and games". Somehow this just does not seem right that he could drive MY marriage into the ditch, then "take the spoils" so to speak.
So yes, I want him to pay me a monthly allowance (SS) so that I could relax and not worry about my expenses.
I hope that explanation gives you insight into a spouse who, through no fault of her own, finds herself "on her own"
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Re: Should I pay spousal support? 
