mab1

Damn, I'm going in circles again! I blame true blood which we always watched together! She has 95% convinced herself (and continues to convince herself) she is out of this marriage for whatever reason. Be it my problems, her problems whatever. She said that she is still not sure it is a mistake though and so there is still a chance. Every time I try to do something to increase that chance she gets angry because I'm not respecting her desires to be a career driven cat lady who blames me for ruining her life. If I push the MC, I'm in the wrong. If I don't push MC I'm in limbo till I finally get ground to a pulp. Neither one is massively appealing. Is MC actually going to be any use anyway when she is wearing her marriage destruction as a badge of honour?
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MyselfAgain

I'm going to vote no. I'm sorry. I hope you will choose to end the limbo for yourself...it isn't easy, I had to make that decision myself not long ago, but I know that in five years I will thank myself for being strong now.
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Conrad

How about just observing and let her lead?

Listen to me closely. Staying in the center of the triangle - sometimes - means just holding still.

STOP trying to fix this.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

synthetic

It's hard Conrad. I know what you mean and am exactly doing what you're suggesting, but day by day I feel like I'm losing my ability to make decisions.

The biggest problem is the whole concept of 'marriage' being too sacred in my mind. And of course you already know she doesn't hold the same view. No one in her family does. They go through husbands and wives like mobile phones.

If I looked at divorce the way she does, I would have divorced her long before all this happened. How do I convince myself that divorce is not such a bad thing? Or am I right that divorce is indeed a very crappy thing that should be avoided if possible?

Conrad

Synthetic,

You shouldn't "avoid" something that's the right thing to do. It's how you got here, by avoiding conflict at all costs.

We're working with and on you to recognize that conflict is a tool for construction.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

mab1

I'm not so worried about conflict more about the way we dealt with it. We had gotten into a tail spin and something drastic need doing and to her credit she did it when I couldn't. Now she has, surely this is a great opportunity to address our issues and restart the journey again in a smoother and safer way? I am not ready to bail out yet. All my friends, family, this board say I should but I don't work like that. Just over a month ago I had one if the greatest nights of my life with her. I wanted her to be the mother of my children. Now, I'm supposed to bail out and let the wind dictate what happens? Sometimes I can convince myself that I don't miss her but it lasts about 5 minutes. Am I scared that by reconciling I've opened myself to a life of misery? Yes, but I could also be giving myself the chance to have a great life having paired away all the years of neglect and problems. The MC isn't about trying to fix things. I want to do it so that we can find new ways of working together so that the great future I want for us has a chance of happening. By not doing anything I'm just leaving it to chance and I just don't know whether that's something I can do whilst not losing the plot completely
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mab1

The other thing is that I've only been sharing my obviously biased side of the story. Maybe an objective third person who hears both sides may be what we need? Right now I'm not rational and neither is she. I'm still reeling from hammer blows and she is cherry picking pieces to produce a jigsaw of the must horrible picture of me she can find.
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Conrad

Show me one post where I said you should bail.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

moxy

Mab, going dark isn't bailing, it's taking it slow with shields in place. It's good that you're ready to dive in to fix the problems, but she is still wavering. Once you are both going in the same direction and at roughly the same speed, then you can move more swiftly, but you've gotta let her catch up to you without pulling her along or she will feel pressured, you will feel insecure, and nothing gets better.

__________________
"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

"“We first crush people to the earth, & then claim the right of trampling on them forever, because they are prostrate." -Lydia Maria Child.

mab1

I know, I'm sorry if I've misinterpreted but it's what it feels like I'm being forced to do by the situation
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synthetic

Once you go dark and start realizing your own self-worth, you'll wonder why you ever cared about what people may think. You won't love your wife any less. You'll just love yourself more.

It doesn't happen by faking strength to yourself. The reason you go dark is so you can feel all you need to feel and cry your eyes out for days (possibly weeks) without exposing your weakness to her. You need to shed those tears before your brain's defense mechanism starts to take over. Once the ball starts rolling, your wife will no longer be able to call all the shots (including the decision to divorce at her convenience).

Read my latest conversation with my wife after 1 month of almost no contact.

mab1

I just feel like if I go dark and work on myself only she will spend her time focussing on everything that went wrong with us. There was stuff wrong, plenty on my behalf and hers. In the last few weeks she's done a great job of demonising me to herself and friends. I just can't stop myself from wanting to work on our relationship especially when I'm just plain embarrassed by some of the things she has brought out to focus on. I want to show her I'm better than that but don't know how to before it's really too far gone.
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synthetic

Fair enough. Been there, I get it.

Here's what you do:

1. Write down a list of the things you regret doing to your wife
2. Write a heartfelt apology letter (but don't send it yet)

3. Do not initiate contact for 2 weeks since your last face-to-face conversation. Let the cloud of anger clear.

4. Send the letter.

5. Go completely dark.


I got my wife back with that approach within 3 weeks. You know what happened after.

Now I have no reason to think I should apologize for anything. I already did and made the changes that convinced her to come back. In time you'll realize "it's never enough".

It always ends up meaning one thing and one thing only:

SHE DOESN'T LOVE YOU ENOUGH

mab1

I've done the apologising, she knows I regret things but right now she's being stubborn (which she's pretty good at) and convincing herself she's right and that I'll keep doing all the same things over and over. So yes, right now she doesn't love me enough (or at all, or she doesn't think she does or whatever she's thinking today). Every time I try and take the chance she's offered it's ended up badly. I'm an imperfect guy who has made mistakes who is trying to atone for them but who has also been hurt really badly. Isn't MC the place to address all this? Trying to overcome this by ourselves has only made things worse between us.
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synthetic

Does your wife give a crap that you've been hurt? Let her actions speak for her. Give her some time and observe whether she even cares about your hurt.

She IS your wife isn't she? If your wife can't bring herself to caring about your feelings, then what is it that you're pursuing here? Her physical presence? You can hire an escort for that (she'll be hotter and less nagging)

Get my point? Your wife is obligated to be a wife, not just a physical body who reminds you what a crappy person you are to the point of destroying your self-confidence. That's what your wife is doing to you (perhaps not with an ill-will and not fully consciously) because you're allowing it.

Listen man, I know the advice here is completely against your immediate feelings. I know on DivorceBusting forum people are more into making all sorts of compromises in the name of 'atonement', and I give you every right to second-guess your assertiveness when you're dealing with all this nasty guilt about what your wife is accusing you of.

I think you have not reached the point where you can say "I showed her all the love and care I could but she didn't want it". Do whatever you have to do to convince yourself of that. It might even get you your wife back for a while. Who doesn't love getting showered by affection and apologies?

You'll slowly realize that your own feelings and desires have been completely ignored. At some point your heart will simply refuse to give anymore love without being loved back. It's on your way, you just need to arrive at it before you can digest the advice here. It's a road that some of us have to travel to the painful end.

MC cannot make your wife realize how important or insignificant you are to her. For your situation, MC is actually detrimental to your wife's realization of your worth. She will look at is as another wifey 'chore' that she has to do before she can bail on you guilt-free.

Want to know if your wife loves you enough to want you in her life? Take the luxury of having 'you' away from her. You are who you are. That will never change. She already knows that. Let's see how much you matter to her.