So tell her all this back and forth isn't doing either one of you any good, and regardless of whether or not the marriage succeeds or fails, obviously the best thing for both of you to do right now is just chill out and stop with the affection and spending all this time together.
Find some sort of middle ground, maybe where it's ok to spend some time together on your birthday but keep it cool, again with the understanding that emotions are running hot and for both of you to make good, logical, informed decisions you can't be going from one extreme to the other.
Get your butts into that marriage counseling, that's exactly what it's all about.
Thats what I ve tried to do is find that middle ground. I had a day set up with MC and ruined that when we got into a fight last week. I told her not to worry about it and when I brought it back up she decided she didn t want to do it anymore. Although I am happy she is going to church with me now on Sundays so I think if counseling Church would be the best. I think in a couple of weeks I'll try to bring back up MC
Thats what I ve tried to do is find that middle ground. I had a day set up with MC and ruined that when we got into a fight last week. I told her not to worry about it and when I brought it back up she decided she didn t want to do it anymore. Although I am happy she is going to church with me now on Sundays so I think if counseling Church would be the best. I think in a couple of weeks I'll try to bring back up MC
Ok let's work on staying on middle ground since that seems to be your comfort zone.
You already know to avoid the extremes:
Staying overnite, cuddling, kissing and any time of sex is one of them, begging and pleading is another, and completely ignoring her is yet another, arguing with her or any sort of conflict, is still another.
It is tough when your man parts also get in the way of reasoning to....
It's hard to say no when she ready to go ( I think that's from an Offspring tune). In this case i would tell you to go home alone that night and leave her hot an heavy. Maybe she will do some thinking.
Ok let's work on staying on middle ground since that seems to be your comfort zone.
You already know to avoid the extremes:
Staying overnite, cuddling, kissing and any time of sex is one of them, begging and pleading is another, and completely ignoring her is yet another, arguing with her or any sort of conflict, is still another.
It's almost like a square. Avoid the corners.
I think that approach fits me more. My main problem is that I do feel I have a good chance of her coming back but I need to be patient. Thats the hard part for me i want answers now and she just cant give them now and then it starts all the emotions flying. I need to learn to stay calm and just respect her feelings right now. Hopefully she doesnt move on to someone else in the mean time. I messed up a little today and sent her sister a message on facebook. I know that was bad and wrong but last time we went through this her sister was right by my side helping out. This time shes moved into an apartment with her and shes only 17. I dont think she wants me to come back in the picture because then she might have to move back home.
It is tough when your man parts also get in the way of reasoning to....
It's hard to say no when she ready to go ( I think that's from an Offspring tune). In this case i would tell you to go home alone that night and leave her hot an heavy. Maybe she will do some thinking.
yeah I think its just going to be a dinner night for me. I think she will respect that more and make her wonder why I didnt want to stay the night as well.
Orange, what do you want out of all of this? This is the question you need to ask. Then you need to ask what your girl wants out of this? It takes two to tango, and if one of you wants to, but the other doesn't, well it's probably not going to work well.
It seems like you are playing with the 180 as a sure fire way to get her back, and when some emotion comes from you, you think the 180 worked and now we are all good. It takes time to change. the first sign of affection is just a good sign, it's not a destination. you keep shooting yourself in the foot.
she's treating you like crap anyway, i'm not sure why you still want to be with someone that does that to you. don't you know there is someone out there that would treat you the way you deserve. Think about that for a second and let that sink in....
What I want out of all this - Is for both of us to grow up a little realize yes things went to fast and we are young but we need to get help and make things work. I want my wife to come back home so we can be a family.
What she wants - The last time we spoke was shes not ready to commit right now because she needs to figure her self out. She needs to better herself before she can even consider a relationship again. (could be her BullSh!t to get me off the subject for a while ).
I only seem to get affection when I'm nice and there for her. When Im going dark on the 180 its more of a crazy why the hell are you ignoring me I hate you lets get a divorce right now type of attitude. I dont see how thats effective when you want them to love you more. I'm sure I can show her the strong, independent type of man I'am turning into and being civil and nice. Now as far as being treated like crap . . . yeah she was at first but its calming down now she responds to my text and answers my calls and will listen to my feelings about things. Is she ready to come back? No of course not. There is a lot of pain and emotions flying around now. Will he change into a better guy then go right back to how he was before? Do I want to hurt again? I mean it goes both ways but jumping back into it before we get help would be dumb. Thats setting yourself up for failure. She said she doesnt want to do MC because of the cost. She said she would rather go to church with me to better herself. To me thats the best thing anyone can do for counseling or finding yourself. ( Dont know if your beliefs but I was raised Christian and fell off the wagon a bit ) So I have no problem with that. She also wants to have family day once a week so I feel that will be a soild time to show her my changes. Actions are stonger than words. Doing the 180 shows her I'm willing to give up on her. I dont want to give up on her. She as much as I hate to say it is a follower. If i give up she will wonder off somewhere else. I have to take charge and let her know the path she wants. Thats just the type of person she is.
What did you message to the sister and will she forward it to your wife?
Well basically I just said hey I just wanted to get your perspective on things please dont tell KK that i sent this because it might upset her then went on to say I understand that yall got a place together and your wanting the best for your sister as do I but I'm not trying to rush anything anymore I was just wondering if you could talk to her about the whole situation because I know you dont think this is the best since you were there for me last time. I dont want to break up yalls new living condition but for the sake of our family dont let that be your reason of not talking to her about it. Just things along those lines. Told her we both needed to grow up and figure our selves out. No response this time though. So I dont know if she will send it to her. She might but if she does that wont be good.
I only seem to get affection when I'm nice and there for her. When Im going dark on the 180 its more of a crazy why the hell are you ignoring me I hate you lets get a divorce right now type of attitude.
You still don't seem to get it. Stop playing the extremes. Don't go dark, don't ignore her but don't do the whole questioning, begging, pleading thing either! Find that middle ground, where you are there to listen, to help her out, but you're somewhat detached, strong, independent. Again that doesn't mean ignoring her and it doesn't mean cuddling and kissing her either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange1
I'm sure I can show her the strong, independent type of man I'am turning into and being civil and nice.
You haven't turned into anything different in the past few days or weeks even though you'd like to believe you have suddenly changed and you're this new guy that she'll fall right back in love with. She doesn't believe it either. Stop trying to force it, it's going to backfire, it HAS backfired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange1
its calming down now she responds to my text and answers my calls and will listen to my feelings about things.
OMG!
You are actually... telling her your feelings about things?!
Seriously?
How is that in any way, shape or form, "detached, independent" and not clingy needy? Stop making it about you and what you want, because she's not going to buy what you are trying to sell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange1
She said she would rather go to church with me to better herself. To me thats the best thing anyone can do for counseling or finding yourself.
Good luck with that. As if the deck wasn't already stacked against you, now you're going to leave it to the church as compared to marriage counseling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange1
Doing the 180 shows her I'm willing to give up on her.
This statement clearly explains the extent of your own personal understanding of "the 180" which isn't all that much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange1
I have to take charge and let her know the path she wants.
I'm not even going to try to figure out what you mean there but one thing's for sure, you are NOT in charge of this situation and you lack the emotional strength to get there, at least right now.
You still don't seem to get it. Stop playing the extremes. Don't go dark, don't ignore her but don't do the whole questioning, begging, pleading thing either! Find that middle ground, where you are there to listen, to help her out, but you're somewhat detached, strong, independent. Again that doesn't mean ignoring her and it doesn't mean cuddling and kissing her either.
You haven't turned into anything different in the past few days or weeks even though you'd like to believe you have suddenly changed and you're this new guy that she'll fall right back in love with. She doesn't believe it either. Stop trying to force it, it's going to backfire, it HAS backfired.
OMG!
You are actually... telling her your feelings about things?!
Seriously?
How is that in any way, shape or form, "detached, independent" and not clingy needy? Stop making it about you and what you want, because she's not going to buy what you are trying to sell.
Good luck with that. As if the deck wasn't already stacked against you, now you're going to leave it to the church as compared to marriage counseling.
This statement clearly explains the extent of your own personal understanding of "the 180" which isn't all that much.
I'm not even going to try to figure out what you mean there but one thing's for sure, you are NOT in charge of this situation and you lack the emotional strength to get there, at least right now.
Well after reading all that it seems as if I have no clue what I'm doing when you break it down. As far as MC I do think one reason she doesnt want to go is because she will hear the truth that things can be resolved and she may be scared to hear that because she wants to give this new life a shot. (hopefully that grass aint so green). Ok I think I'm getting your point. I think I'm right there at the middle ground. I help her out when I can but I'm not ALWAYS avaliable when she needs it. If she calls I'll answer or call back 5 minutes later and just keep it friendly no emotions attached. No sleeping over No cuddling No extremes. On family day just be strong, independent and happy so she enjoys being around me. . . Close?
As far as MC I do think one reason she doesnt want to go is because she will hear the truth that things can be resolved and she may be scared to hear that
Quite the theory. Either way if she won't go to MC your odds of successful reconciliation are rather slim.
I don't think she is leaving... if you are cuddling and kissing it will only be a matter of time. She is still very found of you.
She may still feeling some affection, some doubt, but she's still leaving. He may have some inkling of a chance, but that's all, and she mostly likely testing and/or manipulating him; and when he acts like he wants her, he's failing and losing her.
Regardless of what others say, if you wife wants to hug and kiss you that is a GOOD thing.
If mine reached out for that attention it would be a long and heartfelt kiss that would make her knees quiver and an embrace that would fill her with warmth.
What if she only wants to out of PITY, and/or to placate, pacify, avoid an argument, keep the divorce track running smoothly? Is it a good thing then?
I think I would have trouble pulling back if my husband started like that, even though intellectually I understand that it probably would be better to.
As far as the birthday dinner, maybe going, being friendly, but then going home (alone!) would be the way to go. Have a good time, show her that you are there because its important to your daughter to do this family thing, but that you don't need her (your wife, not your daughter.
I know that goes against the 180, but she is asking to do this with you, which could be a good thing. Just don't get all mushy and cave if she wants more after dinner.
Good luck.
He should go and focus all his time and attention on his child. Be a happy family man almost as if his stbx is not there.
Yes I def. want to do the dinner with her but I dont think I'm going to bring up staying the night again. Probably better if its just friendly right now.
You have to stop trying to get her to do ANYTHING, or change her, persuade her in anyway. You have to begin acting almost like she doesn't exist. That is your best and possibly only chance. She is showing every sign of (at best) testing you with serious doubt whether she wants to continue, or at worst 100% set on leaving you and manipulating you to keep things going smoothly. Your situation is a LOT like how mine played out. With hindsight later, I believe you will likely see things how I do now, which is hard for you to see right now.
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Re: The 180 
