knortoh

CW - can you explain the financial conversation that you had?
what's he saying - he wants YOU to be fair?
but isn't coming clean with details ?
'cause that's what J does - same never any details -

Corpuswife

K: He just wants it to be fair. We have some assets that because of tax reasons are hard to divide. He says he owes taxes on these funds but is paying them monthly out of his check (over 9 years).

He would like me to pay my share of the taxes out of the settlement. However, I countered by telling him that means that pay my 1/2 up front. That means that 1/2 that I pay never gets a chance to work or build interest in those 9 years. He agreed. The tax guy will help us figure. That is just (1) of the parts.

I know the details. I have always been well versed in the financial comings and going of our household. He has always deferred to me with everything including our investments. Financially we get along well.

He's stressed regarding work and income. Getting a divorce is expensive. Attorneys, you get 1/2 assets, pay child support, pay spousal support....gosh you would think by now he would have returned home. His resentment/pain must really be great.

He's losing his best friend/wife/money/1/2time with D. It must be worth it?

knortoh

okey dokey - I get it....
I am much better versed in the financail side of life than J. but neither of us care for it...
my counsellor thinks my H is a child with money - and so what he thinks is fair is pretty silly - he's not mean however - but same with your H. so much resentment and selfishness and anxiety....

Corpuswife

K: When your H left the first time did you have much contact in those months? Also, how did you know when he wanted to come back..what indicators were there?

Believe

Corpus-
Is your H just avoiding having to deal with the tax guy with you? If everything it said out loud to someone else do you think he doesn't want to deal with it? Forget Mr. Nice Guy it sounded like he wanted you to feel bad and relieve him of his duties.

knortoh

CW, it's all a bit of a blur
and nothing was straightforward...
I was in full on shock - adrenelin pumping though my body - fight or flight...he left around mid October - wanted to see kids everyday at first and I didn't know what the heck was going so I said yes...
he didn't find anywhere to live - left everything here etc.
Christmas - he took kids up north to see his dad as we had been planning to do -
I was a zombie -
while he was there I looked into selling house, spoke to govt. agencies about child support etc. all the pratical stuff.
I would email him this info - he'd do nothing with it - what a surprise...
while he was still up north he emailed me askling if I wanted to call it a 'trial' separation and get some counselling -
I was furious and didn't know what he was talking about -
my counsellor had said that she didn't think that he was going to be happy until he was completely 'rid' of me -

I HAD NO SENSE HE WAS COMING BACK - and I wanted it over - really I was so piss**

I emailed back and said we may need to get some (legal) mediation to work things out...(I had begged for him to do MC when he first told me he hadn't loved me for 10 years and we had one session and it was hideous)...

I called him one day when he was there and said that I really didn't care anymore about his version of our relationship - I said all I know is that for 14 years you 'did it" and now you don't want to anymore - and I said I am sorry that you have been hurting but I DIDN't KNOW.....

anyway when he got back from up North we had a chat and I opened it with "I don't want to fight"....which was true enough - still feel like that
at some stage he said "how have you been? " and he was interested - I told him the truth that I hadn't really eaten or slept for 2 months and that I was in physical pain all the time...

he kept on emailing me about seeing MC my neice who is a psychologist told me that it was in his "interest" to keep me emotionally hooked in for as long as possible - I was wary....

signs he wanted to come back ?
he used to look after the kids at our house - and I'd go out - when I came home he would have built new shelves in the kitchen! really after he'd done nothing for years...

I'd get home and he wouldn't leave immediately ..

we started talking -

he told me he felt better whenever he spoke to me...

I don't know - I asked him whether he wanted to try and reconcile - he said "I don't know"....

He said he wanted to hang out with me and see if "a" relationship started . he woudln't say what sort of relationshiop he wanted -
he made some noises about timelines - all sorted by Easter - that sort of thing - but he wouldn't say which way...

one day he came to pick up the kids and take them fishing - he asked me to come along...my heart just about jumped out of my body -
I went
we had a great day - they fished I swam -
on the way home I could tell all he wanted to do was 'jump my bones'....
we kept on talking -

sexual tension was very high...

sometime later a coudple of weeks perhaps we went on a 'date' it was all ambiguous but we ended up at a hotel .....

thinsg went on like this for sometime -

dating -

one night after he'd left I texted him to say I dodn't want to be his girlfriend - I didn't say anything else and I had no intention of forcing his hand I was just emotionally exhausted and confused...

he came home that night - told me he had always loved me and that he had come home for 'himself' - not for me and not for the kids - I said that I admired that - and it was true .....

we decided to get some MC ....big mistake

anyway you know how it ended ...

why do you ask?
are you having some signs ?
I have been completely taken aback by some of d8zed comments - especially about having to have thinsg open-ended for recovery...
this was J - he kept on saying can't we just 'see what happens?'
the 'problems' arose when the MC said he had to committ ....

can I ask you what you think of that (the open-ended thing) it makes so much sense to me now - but at the time I just thought it was him getting his cake and eating it too - (and he was - getting the bits of the relationship he wanted) -

my need was the opposite - I said - no we don't know if it is going to work out but first you have to committ to trying to work it out and he didn't want to do that ...

of course can I just say - none of his point of view was discussed in MC - too inarticulate - no language - he must have felt overwhelmed by MC and me - demanding he committ ......

but I just couldn't (and probably still don't) see the sense in a relationship where one person can't say I am committed to this...
ahhh hindsight it's a fair thing!

Loving Husband

I am more emotional then most men.. As you can see I talk a lot which is very odd. I reach out of adivse everywhere. 300 post to my thread in a little more then 2 months. If I have emotional skills I would like to see it. For me I am horrible at it.. I can't keep anything in and express what and how I am feeling a lot. It gets me in a lot of trouble. Foot in mouth is common.. Yet that's what my wife seems to enjoy. I express how I feel about her and she is soaking it up.. You got one part right. I stick around. I refuse to give up. She is my wife and no matter what happens she will always be my wife.. I just didn't put her first and I am now.. With the wedge that has to go away. You can not partially reconnect or it will fail.. I hope he sees that..

Feelingalone

LH,

I used to think foot in mouth was bad, maybe that is the way to be. Or maybe there some middle ground between what I do being the Mr. Nice Guy and what you do. Express ourselves, but think just little before saying anything that could be taken the wrong way.

Could be interesting.

__________________
"Don't think less of yourself, think of yourself less" ....C.S. Lewis

Corpuswife

Believe: I don't think he's trying to avoid the tax guy. IN fact, he dropped in on him and gave him some papers and discussed a few things. I don't know but I suspect that the tax guy said some things in my H's favor (my H mentioned this in our last conversation). If he does then perhaps my NG doesn't want to be present for a conflict. Heck. That is the only reason that I come up with....He said he would "do it for me." All along he didn't get why to meet witht the tax guy. I am gonna ask him again why...don't expect a real answer though..

K: Quite a story. He never seemed quite disconnected. Visiting often, stuff left at the house. The fact that you got on with your life and had NO sense that he was returning. From your post it's obvious that he missed "family." Still unclear "why" he ran to sudden? Did an event cause him to leave suddenly or give him the momentum to leave? It takes much for a NG to leave.

LH: I see what you mean you feel that you don't have emotional skills because your they aren't controlled. Interesting..hadn't thought of it that way. But again, it all in in recognizing that and "catching" yourself. You seem to be on that track.

At this point, I haven't had any clear signs that he was turning my direction. On some weeks, during our brief encounters I feel him "checking me out" or lingering or noticing things. Usually that occurs when he is in a good mood (I can tell).

This week, his mood hasn't been great (work wise) and he hasn't given me any indicators of interest. Of course, he has no CLUE that he is giving off a vibe.

He is still moving forward with the divorce (tax guy call) and wants it done. Prior to separation he dragged everything out relationship wise. Once we were separated and I did the LMBT, after 2 months he was "done." He wanted out and had the lets-get-the-show-on-the-road attitude. I am guessing that he was highly pained with this separation. He didnt' see the process behind it but only felt the pain (feelings).

Feelingalone

CW,

Maybe it will take the finality of divorce to shake him to doing something about himself. That seems so sad.

But you are a strong person. I know you'll be fine.

__________________
"Don't think less of yourself, think of yourself less" ....C.S. Lewis

Corpuswife

FA: I believe that the divorce will be the catalyst to his NEW discovery. Indeed it's sad that ALL of this is so unneccesary and all. He seems to be a person that get propelled by crisis.

I'm strong and doing well. Not my idea life at the moment. I'm a believer that you create the life you want.

Feelingalone

At least there isn't a OW for you. I'm thankful that you don't face that. I hope your friend is holding up with his w and her actions.

I'm getting stronger now. As I said her feelings don't mean anything to me any more. I make myself happy and I will. Just have the sad moments now.

__________________
"Don't think less of yourself, think of yourself less" ....C.S. Lewis

Corpuswife

FA: I've been thankful for no OW. Most people are highly suspicious that my H doesn't have someone on the side. It doesn't make sense that he would leave without running to someone. He is loyal like I am so it doesn't surprise me. However, now that I know about the NG thing it makes sense how he left.

K: I got to thinking about how the MC put the "you need to commit" or else in his mind. My H would have done the same thing...In MC he was like a deer in headlights. Like he didn't want to be there and wasn't comfortable expressing himself. Everything seemed forced.

I would make my point without hestitation (in MC). He was never someone that could banter. So if I brought up a point...he would either act clueless or didn't know how to respond or what to say.

My counselor told me that he will never have as deep of relationship with anyone else than he had with me. We have a shared history (childhood and adulthood), kids, a friendship, and good relationship. For some odd reason..it makes me feel better. It's like I won't be replaced.

knortoh

CW - the OW was the catalyst - and turning 40.
he told me (when he came back) that when he left he wanted to have an affair with her - but he 'couldn't' - too loyal....I guess -also his counsellor told him NO - and he's obedient ....
he was in terrible pain - sick of feeling guilty about being 'in love' with someone else, sick of thinking he had married 'wrong' woman, sick of 'pretending' he loved me...it was ALL too much -
but because he jumped ship quickly he wasn't sure if what he was doing was 'right'.....so about a week after he left he rang me and said
" I have feelings both ways" - meaning literally I wanna stay and I wanna go....
so hence months of confusion -
he came back also becaue he was scared I would learn to live without him and not want him back -
I guess now he doesn't care about that!

knortoh

CW - so our guys are not only Nice Guys they are also poor communicators - you & I have better cmmunication skills and so one of our H's frustrations is that they never feel that they can 'express' things even when they do 'feel' them...
my H was a non-verbal communicator (in more ways than one) I read his actions, facial expressions (or lack of) etc...that was all he gave me.

So you think your H would have done same thing -
why?
I think in my H's case it was
"I am in pain - don't they get it?" - "How can they ask me to committ to a relationship that casued me so much pain?"
he didn't say this - I am just guessing.

I am interested in what your C said - it makes sense especially in a common sense way....

these guys have lived most of their adult life with us - they ahve shared teh most profound experinces, theya hve been there etc...

CW you and I know that this is what life is - it doesn't get any deeper or better....

but I guess what I am trying to ask you is

does your C suspect that even if your H goes on to 'other' realtionships that he won't have a 'deeper' connection and in fact maybe that is what he 'wants'?

I am just interested because I knwo with my H, he believes that he can have a much more 'in love' I would do anything for this woman feeling for someone else...he thinks that he can have that with OW....or at least he thought that at some stage -