knortoh

I have posted bits and pieces of my story up -

here's another version.

Last October my H turned 40.

I organised a big party for him. He said that no one had ever done that before - not for his 18th not for his 21st. I felt happy to organise it.

He was weird about inviting his work colleagues and made up a strange story.

The following weekend we had an argument

I asked him if he loved me - he said "I don't know"

I asked him if there was someone else he said "I don't know"

I urged him to see a doctor and a counsellor.

The following weekend he sat down opposite me and told me that he didn't love me and that he hadn't loved me for 10 years.

He said that he was fine - he wasn't having a psychotic attack - (there is a history of mental illness in his family)
but that he had been in denial and that he had stayed with me because he 'didn't want to hurt me'

He also said that the counsellor he saw suggested that we seek MC - but he said he thought it was hopeless.

I told him to leave. The entire converstion lasted around 5 minutes.

I stayed at my sisters that night. He moved out the next day.

My kids (8 & 10) were devastated - they had never even seen us fight.

He stayed away for a few months. Came back and forwards - I have read posts on this forum - those of you who have been there will know the deal.

He told me he was confused - and unhappy - needed some time to work things out.

I didn't eat or sleep for about two months. Was in shock and physical pain most of the time.

When I saw him the pain went away. That pure, that simple.

Sometime (March maybe? he came back)

He said I am coming back - not for you - not for the kids but for me - it is what I want - "I have always loved you".

By June he was gone again.

This time he has rented a house, bought furniture, had the phone connected. He has told the kids (but not me) that he doesn't think he is ever coming back.

I don't think he is either.

He is infatuated with a younger work colleague.

He wants to start a relationship with her (maybe he already has?) but the idea of an affair is morally distateful.

He'd rather destroy the entire marriage first.

That's more honourable.


I am lucky
I have a good job
My kids are wonderful, smart, perceptive little people.
I know that I will get through this.


I feel like I am going mad because I am starting to feel okay again -

But it is a mad sort of okay

Euphoric almost - demented.

Up until now I have gone out of my way not to see my H. It hurts too much.

I have had severe panic attacks just sitting at my computer because I think there may be an email waiting for me.

But now - in my demented state I am wondering what it would be like to just accept it -

and act as though I am cool, fine, happy even.

I don't know whether this is a fantasy - or it is really where I want to be anyway.....

I have been very stressed and am wondering if it is my brain giving me a break from it all.

I have a lot of SH** to sort out -

But all weekend I have been sewing clothes for myself and thinking I look pretty good in them.

It is like I just can't stand it anymore and have escaped.

Has anyone else had this sort of madness?

Corpuswife

You are working to some sort of acceptance. Teetering on it in fact. This crap that we've been going through is all consuming.

There was a point where I'd feel lucky to have a few minutes where I didn't think about him and our marriage. Going over and over things. Insignificant things at one point in my life...things that I would have never recognized in my "other" life.

Try writing out the things that you need to sort out. Organize your thoughts on paper. It really does help. Even if you have no conclusion to these thoughts.

Escaping from the madness is still good. The person that posts here is an intelligent, sane, good woman. She is just going through an extremely awful time. Nothing that she did but circumstances beyond her control. She will win in the end. I just know that you will. Good people win in the long run. You are good.

knortoh

Thanks CW
it is your conviction and your clarity I love
and I do know that you know what I am feeling

my H and the kids are a long way away at the moment - visiting my H's dad. having the family holiday without me.

when I took my kids to the airport a few days ago I cried all the way there, I cried all through a conversation with airport staff about who was picking them up at the other end - I cried as I stood looking at the plane take off, I cried all the way home...

and now no tears.

I know that I have to get myseelf into gear again work out what 'needs to be done'

I know that he WON'T do it

What is really scary for me as well is that I have been researching passive agressive behaviour

I am alarmed

for some reason I have heard the term passive agressive for years - but never understood the 'agressive' part....


Now I understand why even throughout all of this I have this image of him as calm, reasonable, 'together'......

that's because he is completley practicised at this

I 'look' hysterical because I am actually registering some real emotion....

honestly it scares me to think of how 'few' times throughout this whole ordeal he was REAL

I can also see how this behaviour works to his advantage

he applies pressure through 'not acting'

waiting for me to sort it out..

I had been working on the assumption that the reason that he didn't want to sort things out was because he felt gulity and couldn't face what he is doing

now I think it is his way of getting things done.

so so scary

just absorbing all of this -

no calm feelings for me today.

Corpuswife

Keep sorting. My H would throw out the "I am no longer in love with you." But was unwilling to do anything about it until I suggested MC. I gave him phone number and he waited and waited. I ended up saying "are you gonna call?"

My H threw out the "I want to divorce" in March. I waited until May....I couldn't stand it anymore. "When, how?" I asked....I can't take the waiting. You want to divorce but do nothing. I ended up initiating the when. I still told him that I wouldn't file.

He is just now filing. He may end up taking his time to get the documents and details done. We will need to meet with the attorney together.

They are just going with whatever they feel like. Don't care about others (family). Not in the REAL sense.

It's sad to see your kids go off for what originally should have been a family holiday. You will have grieving points along the way. I still do. I am even preparing for Christmas!

knortoh

CW I was more like you the first time he left.

I saw the bank manager, estate agent, called the government agencies ...got things going.

I wanted it sorted more than I wanted anything else

Looking back on it now I am amazed at how I swung into action.

No wonder my family kept on saying to me
"you're doing really well"

I didn't think that I was - but on reflection I was awesome!

This time round I am not so much dragging my heels as pondering what may be the best way forward and how I might be able to get what I want instead of just reacting to the impulsivness of his decisions....

At least that's what I think I am doing.

I am kind of stuck on the idea of wanting to keep the house.

many have said "Sell the house"

but I don't want to - I am not materialistic in the least (neither is my H for that matter) but it seems important to try and look after my financial security now that I'll be alone.

But how do you know what is right to do in these situations?

It is so damn confusing.

And I am so so tired....

It is like this juggling act - or this cascading card game.

I decide I want to keep the house so I start looking for more work. I find more work which gives me a little more money - but it is not permanent. Because I am working more I am tired -
more stress and more pressure -

Not enough time/space/ to work things out....

And then my fears...

I admire the way that you are still able to talk to your H.

I am so scared and intimidated by mine most of the time -

Scared of what?

I don't understand .....

The worst has kind of happened...

thank you so much for your calm sensible support

it's true I can tell that you do care....

I am trying to focus on this idea that good does win in the end -

I know what you mean - I really do -


I have both my boys birthdays coming up and am perplexed about how to handle them...

I went through one last year when things were hideous -

What are you planning for Christmas???

Corpuswife

They say during the first year to not make any major decisions. Sometimes you have to....no choice.

The house: This is the way I looked at whether to keep mine or not. Can you afford it without working yourself to death? What if something breaks (major) can you afford to fix it or buy another one? I wouldn't want to kill myself to keep a house. You can always start smaller or rent and move your way up. Plus, with you having 2 younger children....the expenses and time involved with keeping a house.

Also, for me the memories was a big one. I have this house...we both designed and built. Pictures everywhere. Our bed. Our this/that. I want a fresh start for me and our daughter. She is excited about the prospect of helping to find a new place and decorating it.

Get a pad of paper write "pros" and "cons" regarding keeping or not keeping the house. It helps.

I'd imagine the first separation you were like "that's it" I gotta take care of things. When he came back you were very hopeful and elated that you got this second chance for your relationship. Then...months later he decided to RUN again. Heartbreaking..you thought you were trying to put the past behind you. He pulls the stunt. I'd imagine the old emotions came back along with NEW ones. "How could I let him do this to me again?" "I am a sucker...I fell for it." The emotional rollecoaster and you are trying to protect your kids from it as well.

Regarding Christmas and other holidays. I am going to create me own special holiday traditions. I am sure that I will have my D either Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. His family, which I am still close with...are leaving it open. They are inviting everyone still for Christmas dinner. They are leaving it up to my H and me. I am not sure what I will do. On one hand we get along that we could still spend the dinner together with the kids present. On the other hand...I don't really want to see him this first year after divorce. I am disgusted...him being all nice-nice and smiling. Me pretending how lovely things are....WHATEVER!! I'll cross the bridge when it comes I suppose.

You have the funnest birthday party ever for your boys! Don't include you husband...let him figure his life with the boys out. Don't expect anything from him and if he offers something for the boys...then be surprised. Let you H see and hear how much fun the boys had at their birthday.

What an azz they are....

knortoh

CW Thank you !

Such sensible & sensitive advice -

and reading it made me realise that I am still deferring to him in my mind....(will I never train myself out of this?????)


e.g. what if he wants to cook pizza for the boys on their birthday (like he always does)

well that is exactly what he said no to isn't it????


I am going to bed now...I will scheme some more in the morning...

Corpuswife

Good point. How do you get out of the habit of deferring to him? You just eventually do. He's not present and he doesn't make any of the daily decisions. He has no voice unless it's major matters with the kids. His choice is made. Let him have it!

I am telling you. He will get envious when you kids tell him how great their birthday was...or what happened here or there. It's good to let him envy you a bit. You are the main parent and get the perks!

My H walked in on Sunday to my lovely lively house. He was so hesistant to go...incredible. He would have like nothing more than for me to say "go have a seat and watch the movie" with our son. I didn't. He went home alone and sick. His choice.

knortoh

CW I think you always remind me of something really valuable:

NO matter what 'they' are going through and no matter how much 'sympathy/empathy/concern/feelings of tenderness' they manage to inspire in us the main point is that they are IDIOTS and we are NOT. We have not lost our powers of reason and sense. THEY HAVE. THEY ARE BEREFT. NOT US

I love the fact that even though you are hurting and grieving you can still see this clearly.

And that you act accordingly.

I'll make a tragic confession.

Part of me still feels "Sorry" for my H because he married, lived with had two kids with someone, who he never really LOVED.

Part of me thinks - what an amazing man to try and make the marriage work even though he didn't really love me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I obviously have some rewiring work to be done.


Now on the birthdays etc - you are right once again!

I am fairly sure he's not making any practical plans towards making sure the boys birthdays are fun.

The boys are very worried about this - where will they be?

Where will their party be?

Who will they invite?

usual kid stuff - my kids start planning their birthdays early....

I am going to plan both their birthdays while they are away - I would have done this anyway. He's never been a part of this stuff. Only does sport - but I guess that's pretty normal.

I will let my H organise how he is going to see and celebrate his kids birthdays himself.

I won't offer anything.

Just to go back in time for a minute we had to go through my youngest son's birthday last year about a week or two into the separation.

I remember my H came over, mowed the lawn, cooked pizza, played with all the kids....it was horrible

When I told him afterwards how very difficult I had found the day he said

"I'd like to think that we are the sort of parents who would always be together for their children's birthdays"

I looked at him like he was mad and said that that was the sort of assumption he might happily make if we were MARRIED!

But you can see how insidious this sort of comment is...

Makes him seem like HE is the one who has children's best interests at heart, that he is the one ADULT enough to put his feelings aside for his kids....

I think he was genuinely shocked when I said that all bets were off if we separated permanently.

But CW,

sometimes I think I AM being childish.

If I read through some of the posts that discuss children and separation and I wonder ....

what is best?

what sort of separated parent do I want to be????

none of these questions answered...

Corpuswife

Exactly...not matter how much you feel like giving them empathy/sympathy. They evoked this on themselves. They never spoke up until it was too late, in their minds, and then we didn't get a chance.

Knortoh: You don't need to rewire at all! Not at all! You are a kind, compassionate person. You care about your family. You H is family. I do the same thing. I was depressed and selfish for years. I functioned ok with my fake face on...but it was difficult. I told him how I was "sorry." I told him how awful it must have been to live under these conditions and not knowing what to do about it. I REALLY did apologize and mean it. I ask for forgiveness. You know what he did.......he rolled his eyes. He thought I was trying to evoke some sort of emotion from him.

I am willing to be that your H loves you now. Maybe not "in love." Staying 10 years with someone you don't love at all. Seriously....I doubt it. No matter what they say. I don't believe much of what my H says....alot of dramatic ramblings from a man that doesn't deal with his feelings and is working his life on a superficial level. Gimme a break! Can you really say that he was so sacrificial and his life was a living hell for 10 years. NO! I am sorry. I can't muster much sympathy.

My friends catch me saying "poor H." They say "don't feel sorry for him. He's the one doing this...not you. Feel sorry for you!"

I got the WE statement..pre separation also. "I think WE are going to do just fine with our D. WE would never do anything to hurt our D." He would also say...during sex..."I can US doing this when we are divorced and unattached to any one else." Ya right buddy! The sex that we had during the last years was ALL initiated by me...and it sucked having sex with a cardboard box. haha

I think you need to give yourself a break. This first year will be many changes in our lives. Try not to plan too far in advance. Maybe one day you will celebrate birthdays together. For me...I can't do it. I am a bit angry as I feel he wants his cake and eat it to. Of course, with this anger, my kids don't get both parents at the same time. That is what divorce is...I need to preserve myself at this point. If it makes me feel better and I am not doing undue harm to my kids than I will take the course that makes me feel better. Without their MOM sane...what do they have left?

knortoh

Goodness CW - what is wrong with these guys???????

Is it that we are so stable, constant, reliable 'there' for them that they can't even imagine that we won't be there for 'sex' after they have left us?????

Well my H has proved he thought it was hunky dory to have sex with me after he'd left me emotionally.............

Then when he came back and he was talking about leaving he said that one of the bad things about him leaving was that

I wouldn't get to have sex anymore........

as though he was providing a service to me

what is the combination of lack of logic and lack of compassion that allows these guys to think these thoughts and think that it is okay to share them?????????????????????????????????

I will never understand.

one day I will be somewhere that I don't care anymore

PS am taking your advice and having a 'break' - mental break from my problems

Corpuswife

Good deal knortoh: You take that break! Well deserved.

It struck me funny how he was soooo concerned how you wouldn't get to have sex anymore! How freaking considerate...

My H called...long story. He was stressed with landlord problems. The landlord is a druggie and has been entering his condo eating/drinking H's food. The landlord said he's sorry and it won't happen again. Well it did today.

My H changed the locks and fears the landlord will be angry regarding that. My H doesn't want my D around if the landlord goes crazy. So my H is bringing over our D to my house for the rest of the week. OK. I talk to him and give suggestions on how to approach the landlord and talk calmly. I ask if my H is "ok." He says..."everthing is just going wrong." I told him "I am sorry that things are going so rough."

We go to hang up and guess what he says..."ok...I LOVE YOU."

This is the first time in many months (3-6 months) that he ended a phone call willingly saying I love you." A Freudian slip probably. Does it give me hope? No. I thought it was funny. He is seeking the same comfort that he always had....

knortoh

OH CW,

"I love you"

and thinsg aren't going too good!

he is one messed up dude.

WTF did he think was going to be RIGHT?

This sounds so much like what my H was like the first time he left.

He was living in a place sharing with a guy and he used to come over and complain how dirty it was and I just used to look at him and laugh and he would just look back at me completely wounded that I wasn't offering any sympathy.

Then one day he rang me to ask me what he should wear to work - really .

Then I remember after he left the second time he came to mind the kids and when I left the house said

"see you darling"

I was devastated - and I cried all the way to work.

Meanwhile I think my 'break' is over.

J and the kids have come back from their holiday - and although the kids aren't back with me till next week I felt my stress levels rising the minute I knew they were back.

I know that he is running out of credit and something needs to be resolved with our finances - I was interested to read in your post that you guys still have joint finances - same here

yes that trust!

in my case it is not exactly misplaced but my H is poor at money management - or at least has been poor and careless as part of his bad behaviour over the last while

I'd just like to keep the staus quo for as long as I can -

just to give me a bit more time to start feeling better etc.

but I need to prepare myself for the fact that he may well begin to really pressure me to sell house.

I had a long session with my counsellor today and she just says
" I am sorry but you have a boy there"

CW - I really don't think my H is coming back at all.

I think his whole leaving thing is too deep and has been too long developing -

I don't think he'll find an 'easier' or 'happier' relationship especially over the long term but I don't think he'll ever want to come back to me -

not the least because he won't want to risk hurting me and the boys again....

it still hurts so so much

Corpuswife

knortoh:

I know it hurts like heck! I have a sliver of hope...a tiny sliver. I will be divorced and still have a tiny sliver.

I will still have fun and handle my life. I will still go out with a hunky guy, if he looks like Brad Pitt! I will get on with my life. There are NO guarantees that anything will come out of my sliver of hope. I can't/won't wait around for 2 years hoping my husband will "get it."

You will learn to get on with yours as well. You have less hope as your H has come back once and left again. Heartbreaking. Plus, the fact that he's having an affair won't send him home running. I bet the affair end up bottoming out in less than 6 months. Really, they don't usually last long.

In the meantime, what are you doing to occupy yourself with the boys are gone? Do you have any close girlfriends?

knortoh

CW
on HOPE:
I think I wrote this somewhere on another post - but I read recently that in Spanish the word for waiting is the same as the word for hope....

And I relate to your metaphor a sliver - as though it is light -

Although yours is thin I think it is bright and I sincerely hope that it is given the chance to shine again.....

Either way it is a bit like love we don't have a whole lot of choice here - I think hope, love have a life of their own -

I admire the conviction that you have with choosing to move on in the ways you can control...

And I am always back to my mum on that one

"you are in control of you"


I think what I am finding pretty tricky at the moment is just the on-going stress

I have always (maybe mistakenly) believed that my H and shared a 'easy going' 'light' take on life.

I have not tried to intervene too much with what the 'universe' seems to be telling me .....

I don't do things if they seem too 'hard'

I am struggling to accomodate my current circumstances in the 'trust the universe' ethos.

I am not religious in the traditional sense of the word (although I pray a great deal!)

but I guess what I am talking about is akin to trusting in GOD....

so it's really just about that controlling what you can and letting go of what you can't...

right now I am still in the quagmire of what working out what I can and can't control....what I can and can't plan for .....

it sucks when you have to reasses your whole life philosophy as well as put up with your husband leaving you............

learning so much painful stuff

sorry for such a deep post - just woke up feeling like this