But he has to learn how to do that. No covert contracts with people, putting his needs above all others except children, I'm not talking don't consider other's feelings but you can't be ruled from them. And just be open. It sound so simple, but for us it isn't. We've been this way a long time - always under the surface - at least I know I've been.
K: He did settle (maybe) for less than full emotional satisfaction...and he probably does want more. How does a NG get full emotional satisfaction? By being emotionally honest.
So CW are you saying that the ability to be satisfied is in him?
I think he thinks he is being emotionally honest now - depsite the fallout... so he should be more emotionally satisfied and therefore happier?
He is - now he just has the regrets (which he says are many - not sure what they are) and the guilt (not sure what the main thing that he is gulity about -staying with me when he didn't love me or leaving me after 14 years..take you pick - he gets wild with me when I ask what he is guilty about - but this is a genuine question)...
Absolutely-I think the ability to be satisfied is within us all. It's when we look for outside resources that this satisfaction falls short.
However, I think there will be moments when even the most satisfied person falls short. We are humans. When our H aren't satisfied emotionally..it's not this rare occurance. It's a life that they have lived their WHOLE lives!
He seems to be more open and honest with you. He is being emotionally honest it seems. He is feeling these feelings and even though it may be "unkind" in NG behavior..it's his truth. It seems to be a relatively new event for him to be able to say hurtful things to you openly. He knows this is hurtful but says them anyway. It's progress for him. Hurtful to you.
Who knows what will really come of your marriage or what is the truth NOW? You have many months to "deal" with your H and his behavior. I would quit talking the emotional stuff with him...unless you can handle it (his truth). To me...talking about my relationship is "what's the point?"
I allow him to make his "moves" (subtle ones). I keep moving on. I keep doing what I want or feel like.
You H is further away as he feels that he "tried."
You keep moving on K, like you have....
Arrange for the solicitor if he can't get it together soon.
Yep okay - he could be satisfied - he knows this - he's not an idiot - but honestly he isn't - and he doesn't want to try anymore - I am getting to the crux of my frustration now
I can't believe that someone would finally realise all this stuff about themselves and not want to approach their relationship (Which they admit hasn't been bad) with this under their belt - use it to make things better - amazing even....
how can he not want to try now he knows this about himself?
But for him just admitting it meant that he had to get out -
The whole relationship is tainted with the emotional dishonesty and that is why he can't see the good stuff....
the main issue for him is that he had doubts he never shared...
he couldn't be fully present....
A while back I said to you both that as they realize and overcome their NG tendencies that things would be different. K, this is what I am talking about. Right now he is thinking of him first, which in a strange way to you is very good for him.
He has to play the string out so to speak. He knows you are a great woman, he just has to get back through all of is BS to get there. It will take time, in the end I believe it will depend on where you are and not him.
FA your support means a lot to me - and your faith that he may find his way back - I think he is much happier appreciating my many fine qualities from afar...
I do get it that he has to go through this particulalry if emotional dishonesty was so big in his life - but I don't see how he can ever overcome all the **** - I mean I think he will work stuff out - but I don't think he'll ever be able to look back on our relationship with joy or happiness...it has been too painful he will move on and start again - wife #2 will get the benefits of my pain - I know this is a bitter thing to say - but that's how I feel - he's improving himself but not because he wants to come back a better person ...
when he was still at home I said to him one night -
I am just focussing on me being in a happy place with the boys -
and he said "I want to be there"
it's the stuff like this that he said that keeps me hanging on - but I no longer knwo what it means...
I am not hopeful at all anymore - really I think my last little bit has extinguished -
but I think what you are saying is that at the end of the day all I can do is focus on myself...hey ?
I don't know how much they analyze themselves. Maybe my H does more than I think (which is barely if even). Your H seems to be doing more work.
He is going to be selfish during this time. He feels that he deserves it as he's sacrificed himself for his marriage (you). I know it sounds ridiculous but being emotionally dishonest and discovering that you are...is mind blowing for them. It gives you the reason why you are so discontent.
FA is realizing his flaws but is discovering his wife as well. He's looking through a different lens.
Yeah thanks CW I guess it is mind blowing to find out that you are
emotionally dishonest....while I see it as fixable personality trait
for him it all adds up to one big lie - our relationship - with me at the centre - couldn't love me didn't love me - thought he was a f*** up ...something happened (OW) and he thought I am not a f***up I have just been in a bad relationship - she's not a bad person - it's not her fault - I just was never honest - and if I would have been 14 years ago we wouldn't be here now - I would have met someone I truly loved and had a happier life with them...
this is where his inability to think with any delicacy emotionally comes through - it's so dramatic - who honestly leaves their 14 year relationship (and children) on a spur and returns on a spur and thinks that's ok?
but as you have said so many times CW - it's free will - he is going to choose to work this out however he does - in this case on his lonesome - miserable, guilty but not as pressured...
K, don't think for a moment that he didn't love you, he just didn't know how to express it and show it. He did love you. If he didn't no matter how much of a NG he was, it wouldn't matter. He had to love you to be a NG. I know it doesn't make sense. But I loved my w deeply. Because of how much I loved her I allowed myself to become what I am. SO please don't discount his love. I know my w does, but don't. It doesn't necessarily make a difference at this time, but I believe in the future it will for you and for him.
FA I have been raving to my counsellor this morning about you guys - about how cathartic it is to vent, how great it is to find fellow travellers, how invaluable it is to get the other person's perspective and how I have had such great support and advice on here...
thank you so much - you take so much time to answer and I can be demanding! as CW says so introspective!
my counsellor and I were talking about how memory works for people who have been through childhood trauma - where there was no reflection/discussion etc. Appaprently in these cases memory works like a series of snapshots with no connecting narrative - this is so much how my h seems to describe our relationship - separate moments that he connects with the narrative of I never really loved her....I find this really interesting because early on I made the observation that he used to relate all the same events and conenct with the narrative - that's why I love you - it's the connecting tissue that he has trouble with - for a long time the narrative that has made sense has been the one that says I never loved her...
we were also talking about how he thinks I criticise him for having a romantic notion of love - I don't - I think we all have a romantic notion of love - but the difference is that romance for me means being with the father of my children, going through pain together and still loving...his idea of romance is different that's all.. but we all need that - I don't think anyone could read our posts and think we are not romantic -
Yes in that way I think your h and w are similar with this idolized version of what love is supposed to be. To me love is being there for each other especially when things are down. SHaring time and chores. PRaising each other. I always did that. I just turned inward during a time of high stress. I just didn't turn inward from her, but from my family as well.