GAsoccerman

Sorry to hear that SweetP, I enjoy foreplay tremdously, almost more then real sex, because my wife gets so much out of it. I would not be with her, if she did not enjoy it.

there is a saying, "if your not happy, then go find happiness" staying in a marriage for the wrong reasons, is worse then getting married for the wrong reasons. If it won't work, then divorce and move on.

I agree with Drac, Child support is NOT free money. It is money for YOUR children, yes you are giving it to your EX, but the Money goes to your children Indirectly in some sort of fashion, I could not hold back from giving support to my children, I love them and want what is best for them, even if it means they get european vacations and I live in a trailer. My kids come first ALL THE TIME. But again I am not divorced so I am not bitter.

I know a few "dad's" that rather skip child support then see their children, because they feel they are just giving it to their spouse.

If anything, these fathers should unite and fight to change the laws as they currently are in funding formula's, it was based off when women did not have decent jobs. It's a different world now. My wife makes more money then me, if we were ever to get divorced, it would be a interesting battle $$ wise. But it won't happen.

I wish you all luck i this area. And Chop, she only let's me touch her after day 4 has passed....during the visit. First three I stay away hehe

Chopblock

"CHild support isn't free money it is to help feed and cloth the children since so many parents don't do it on there own without a court order."

Wrong. Child support is INTENDED to help feed and clothe the children...

In reality, it seldom plays out that way, especially when the woman gets a new wallet... err boyfriend and suddenly has way more household income than should ever merit bleeding the father dry. I agree that not only are the calculations antiquated and biased, but there is little to no oversight to ensure that 1) the amounts are fair at all, and 2) that the money goes to the child.

Personally, I'd rather there be a much more accountable system in cases where amounts can't be agreed upon. The father should be able to challenge the mother to prove that the money really is going to CS. I realize its expensive to raise a child, but you can tell whether or not that money really is being used for its intended purpose. If junior is wearing worn out shoes while mom and boyfriend are on their 2nd cruise this year, something isn't right.

GA, I think a lot of it is mental, which irritates the hell out ofm e. Gf seems to have erected so many utterly RIDICULOUS mental barriers, and justifies them with that "if thats what I think, then thats what I think" attitude. No matter how many times I compliment or dote on her, when she is in one of those moods, its meaningless. She believes she is unattractive, therefore how can anyone else find her attractive.

I've told her before and asserted the viewpoint that the attitude is often more powerful than the imagery. I've met fabulously gorgeous girls who only see themselves as ugly, and average girls who were confident and happy. Guess which ones were more desirable.

carmaenforcer

Hi chopblock

I live in a state that champions the Unwed Mother and punishes the Dads right off the bat. I got screwed and forced to live on a fraction of my take home (after taxes) and when I made a court date to reevaluate my dyer condition, the judge said, and I quote:
"just get another job", raised my child support and added daycare.
I walked out of that court room completely disillusioned about the concept of fairness, so I don't expect it anymore, I demand it.
On a related note, that same Son (from a previous) is 17 now and I'm still paying daycare....????? I would complain but am scared of the courts because I am starting to try and have a family, again.

Do not kid yourself, the old saying is true
"It's cheaper to keep her"
Hell, my ex is a meth-head and doesn't work. She told me that I'm her sole income, well my Son's child support is.

I completely agree with you on the consequences thing fortunately for me that I've learned from my Wife the art of how to bold faced lie to you in your face and get away with it.
It sounds strange but I have actually been able to use this technique in a corporate setting, it's great. It's a bit like politics and involves legalities and burden of proof, if your married (to a woman liar) I'm sure you understand.
It's funny because she knows it, I bold face have told her what I plan on doing (as a test) and she can't do anything about it, because she does the same thing.
As I understand it, as long as there is no hard proof your safe and can just walk away from it.


She is still a lot better at it than I am and simply because she's a woman has the potential to hurt me 1000 times wurst than I can ever dream of. I hold my own though and have embarrassed just being a man and letting her deal with it, what ever than means.
Sometimes she tries to call me on something, I'm like "holly isht I'm caught" in my head, but keep my cool.
BURDEN OF PROOF B____!
I just plead the 5th (I prefer not to lie if I don't have to) and leave it at that. If she persists I simply bring up her dirt I've been overlooking but keeping notes on, and all is good once more.

Another scud blown out of the air.

I know a sad way to live but you made do with what you have, survival 101.

swedish

I really don't think this is a gender based issue. It's a dead-beat vs. parents who actually love their children enough to step up and do the right thing vs. take whatever they can from their ex.

I divorced 9 years ago...have 3 kids...we divided assets equally which meant I kept the house (and higher mortgage) and he got lots of cash...which he put down on a small house, bought a sailboat, 2 jetskis, a new car...cashed in his 401k and redid the house, bought a new tv (even though he took our only one) list goes on...never paid child support...I was paying over 1k a month in daycare. I agreed in court to 1/2 of the state required child support %. He still paid nothing.

he married 2 months after we divorced took on a stepson and had another baby...my eldest will be 18 this month and he feels sorry for his dad...about how I have a big house, etc. and his dad is out of work and struggling (he starts a job and quits because he does all the work while the bosses make all the $)

My son shows a lot of anger towards me because 'i threw his dad out in the streets...took all his money...' I finally sat my son down and explained how things were divided when we divorced. It's too late...he believes everything that comes out of his dad's mouth and feels sorry for him. Just last week he said his dad is thinking of buying a new boat and write it off as a corporate expense but at the same time is asking if I will pay for all of his college because I can afford it and his dad can't.

I know I could take him to court, but I also know he would feed the kids more lies and make things worse for them, so I've just put up with it. I also feel bad for his wife, who is a really good person and works really hard and I wouldn't want to make things worse for her.

It's flippin ridiculous.

pigpen

Dear Chopblock,
You are asking the wrong questions of the wrong people.
Do you ask HER these questions?
Are you really prepared for the answers you recieve or are you waiting to hear what you want to hear?

I have a marriage where my husband has no finesse (or did not - its been so long I really dont know now). He was abrupt and when I made suggestions of how to approach me he took every thing I said as NO. I wonder what dynamic is at play in your relationship?
Several months ago I had an interesting discussion with the hubby. Not about sex but the conversation was eye opening to every concievable communication error in our marriage.
He admitted that when I said I needed "help" he assumed I ment that he should do it all. What I really ment was "help".
Since he was imposing all kinds of motive on my comments we could never have a conversation that did not erupt in anger.

So there you have it - the only thing you can do is listen to what she says and observe what she does without trying to second guess her. If she says she does not want sex and you ask why and she says she does not know - she does not know and you cant fix that. You can be supportive. You can suggest she sees a doctor for a physical and you can decide if you can live with the situation.

The point I am making is you cant figure out people. You can only take what they have to offer in the moment and on the face of it. Minute by minute and day by day.

Do you romance her? Or do you just insist that she should have sex with you because you are married?
Do you aks her how she likes to be touch or do you assume she should like to be touched in what ever way you touch her because it is all sex?

Do you pout when you dont get it? Demand that she tells you that you are loved and wanted? Just what do YOU do to make her feel comfortable with sex?

I can tell you that nothing is a bigger libido killer than a selfish guy. I hope you are not he.

Chopblock

Yes I romance her, help around the house (do most of the chores/cooking/cleaning...) tell her I love her, blah blah blah. She has it really good.

Yes I have asked these questions of her over the years, and have given up asking because I won't get an answer. At this point I would rather hear "I don't find you attractive anymore" than "I don't know" so I could at least figure out whether to stay or go.

While I understand that "quid pro quo" can be damaging, I feel that I work hard to meet her needs (and wants) and shortchanged that I feel I am not given the same courtesy. While I do my best not to make the things I do contingent on sex, as her happiness is quite important to me, I feel that since I am putting in all the work of a romantic commitment, that I deserve some of the benefits.

Let me address your good points individually then:

The part about projecting intent onto someone is something we've both been guilty of in the past. The thing is, a lot of it is self-reinforced. I mean, if 4 out of 5 times yield a particular result, its hard not to expect that the 5th time will yield the same result.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying a big part of the healing is to understand what is really being said during some of the interchanges that cause common stress. In your case "asking for help" did not mean "get over here and do this".

That is something I am actively working on, and feel is getting better.

However I must say, I also feel fatigued by hearing the same excuses or lack thereof over and over. "I don't know why" and "I'm not in the mood" is just not acceptable anymore. 8+ months of drought is long enough to get in the mood, or at least figure out why you aren't.

I disagree with "taking the face of it". Quite often I feel I am expected to understand the full subtext and hidden meanings behind cryptic phrases. I would love everything to be straight up, say what you mean, mean what you say, and so forth. Sometimes it is, sometimes its not.

Thank you.