BTW. where did someone compare a woman to a car? I don't see it in this thread..was it deleted?
It was in jxnsters post. when i was initially going through all the real emotional abuse with my H i probably would have laid into jxnster. posts like that still flare my temper slightly but im a little more understanding that my situation is different and a lot of people can have porn and a normal sex life. so i expect the "its just a guy thing" as many people do not understand where i am coming from.
You must understand that just because a guy looks at another women, or even porn, does not mean that he actually wants to or will cheat. To us it's just like looking at a nice car drive by.
You mean this? I think he's just stating the obvious by making an analogy. It's not that men are looking to cheat on their SO or that they don't appreciate their SO... they are merely checking a good looking women out just the same way as they would look at a hot Ferrari. Heck, I check out a good looking man the same exact way!
I don't think this comment was meant to be demeaning or to objectify women. I understand why you would be upset, especially if your self esteem is bad due to emotional abuse from your husband though.
I do like the fact that my husband doesn't "check out" other women on a regular basis and isn't into porn. At one time he had a subscription to Playboy, that was about it. It never bothered me. I have other things I have problems with though. We all do.
It's not that men are looking to cheat on their SO or that they don't appreciate their SO... they are merely checking a good looking women out just the same way as they would look at a hot Ferrari. Heck, I check out a good looking man the same exact way!
its not that i think my H would cheat or that i cant appreciate that other women are attractive. i get that. its that he looked at other girls and never at me. that was pretty humiliating. In my desperate years when i was trying everything to get his attention, i bought this very sexy shirt that was tight and kind of see-through. i wore a lacy bra underneath and i thought it looked really good. he never even looked at me. literally. he saw it in the closet a few weeks later and asked me why i dont wear it. he said he'd never seen it before. that happened to me a lot- with a lot of lingerie i wore.
so now i just dont bother with anything- which i think is affecting me in another way. i wear jeans and t-shirts all the time. never do my hair. just pull it back and leave it. i dont feel feminine anymore and its kind of weird. i want to look good again but im afraid of being rejected again. and since i was rejected for so long im hyper-sensitive to being rejected. i would like to stop comparing myself to other girls. its really bringing me down.
Well, that's sad and I understand exactly where you are coming form because I was in pretty much the same place. It wasn't that my husband was checking out other women as much as that he wasn't into me at all. Nothing puts a crush on you more than that. I completely get it. Having someone you love not even pay attention to you or be attracted to you is downright awful and few things kill your self esteem as much.
That said, you should try and keep yourself in shape for YOURSELF. It'll make YOU feel better to be doing your hair and be in shape and wearing nice clothes. The tough part is not caring if your husband cares because you'll be WANTING and HOPING that he does and it feels horrible when he doesn't. The hardest part is the not caring about what he thinks. However I think this is something you need to be aiming for. You don't want to let yourself go. If you get yourself in a clearer frame of mind you might find yourself thinking and reflecting in a way that'll help you.
I wish you the best of luck., Maybe if you get yourself in shape and get some self confidence back your husband will take notice and things will change for the better. In the meantime I say try and get some hobbies and friends and get out there. Don't let yourself shrivel up and blow away because your H isn't being the man he should be for you. Life is too short.
I think it is unfair to blame your husband for how you feel ladies. I have read your posts for awhile and have come to the logical conclusion that it must be tough to be a woman. I have also read and wrote enough men's posts to have come to the exact same conclusion about being a man.
It is obviously difficult to be yin ladies, and it is definitely difficult to be yang; so why can't we lighten up a bit and fairly assign responsibility to the party ultimately responsible for how we feel about ourselves...ourselves.
I agree with you that in the end you have to take responsibility for your life and not blame someone else for your troubles but it still hurts like heck to be rejected by the person you love. What is needed at some point is to take steps to deal with it...either accept what is and build a life for yourself without your husband (in the form of hobbies, friends, work, etc) or pack up and leave and build a new life in that way. But to let yourself go and use the situation as an excuse is bad. I'm in agreement there but I still can feel sympathy for someone who is going through what is a very difficult situation.
Even when my marriage was at it's worse I had a life I could call my own. I do take pride in that. In some ways my estrangement from my husband allowed me to do things that I wouldn't or couldn't do now, like travel and race my car. Now I don't do a lot of things because I prefer to be with my husband instead so in a way what was once a bad situation I turned into a good one..but I'd still rather have the love and companionship of the man I married.
It's important not to sit in a corner, dwell on the bad and say it's OK to do so because someone else did this to you. I agree completely.
Your point is well taken Freak on a Leash, and I agree wholeheartedly. I feel sympathy as well. Hell, empathy would be more accurate in many of these cases. However, above all we need to feel/take ownership.
I am sooooo tired of people excusing men b/c they are "visual." When is the last time you saw a female pheasant--or lion, or whatever--that was all bright and beautiful to attract a male? It's the MALES that have the bright colors, etc. Besides, the size of an "attractive" woman now is nothing like it was in a different generation--it's how men are conditioned by society, not nature, that gives both men and women this idea that women "should" look a certain way to be considered attractive.
Don't "should" on yourself.
You can completely change how you respond to yourself-or to anything else. It's not all that difficult once you accept the basic idea: your thoughts determine how you feel. If YOU think negative thoughts about the way you look, you will feel bad. If you think positively--and work to weed out insidious, negative thoughts, you will feel better about yourself. The hard part is unrooting and catching those negative thoughts. They are so much a part of us we may not realize we are having such thoughts. The feeling registers, and it is the only cue that you are having such thoughts.
I really worked on this in my 20s and it has made a difference my whole life since then. I'll write more later about what I did--it worked. Just be patient and persistent! TTFN. gotta work!
Besides, the size of an "attractive" woman now is nothing like it was in a different generation--it's how men are conditioned by society, not nature, that gives both men and women this idea that women "should" look a certain way to be considered attractive.
It's sick really, if you trace the history of what was and what is now socially accepted as "beautiful."
You have to stop rejecting yourself before you can stop feeling rejected by your H. Don’t look good for him, look good for you! You deserve it!
I know that there is a lot more to your situation than this, especially given the rejection and porn use in the past, but that’s the basic issue. It’s corny but I really do believe that beauty comes from within. Many of these responses touch on that and I think that stopping the negative thoughts (and leaving the past in the past) could have a big impact for you. Have you read anything about Byron Katie? She has this process called The Work which someone from this forum turned me onto. It’s basically about questioning your thought process and seeing that what we project onto others is really coming from within. Byron Katie herself takes it a little far for my tastes but the basic concept of The Work is a good one. It might help with your thought process on this issue, here’s the website if you’re interested. The Work of Byron Katie It’s free as is the entire Work process and instruction. I’m just getting started with it but beginning to discover the sheer volume of false beliefs and "shoulds" I’m carrying around has been astonishing.
When I was in my 20s, I decided to learn to love my own face and body no matter what anyone else thought. So I quit wearing make up, and I'd only look in the mirror once each morning before leaving the house, just to make sure I was neat and complete--no holes or whatever. Then, when I looked in the mirror again--in the evening, like when I was brushing my teeth--I smiled at myself, every time, and practiced admiring my smile and the things I could like about my face. I limited how often I looked, too, b/c that's just a bad habit and reinforces the emphasis on appearance. I then transferred the strategy to the rest of me--find what I could admire in myself, focus on that, and ignore the rest. It makes a HUGE difference. 99% of us look at ourselves and stare at the things we DON'T like, and that makes these things look huge and obvious. Guess what? Almost no one else pays that much attention to us! The only people who do are people who are superficial and very insecure themselves--and why value their opinion?
So, be aware of what you are thinking, don't spend much time looking at yourself, and focus on what is nice about yourself only; forget the rest.
FYI: it took me one year to get used to my face w/o makeup, although I had never worn much to begin with. I'm so glad I stopped, though! Very liberating!
99% of us look at ourselves and stare at the things we DON'T like, and that makes these things look huge and obvious. Guess what? Almost no one else pays that much attention to us! The only people who do are people who are superficial and very insecure themselves--and why value their opinion?
That's a very good point. No one is as critical of one's self as yourself!
That said, I will say that if you like putting make up and it makes YOU feel good, then do it. If you feel liberated and happy not doing it then don't do it. Make yourself happy first because until you are happy within yourself you can't make others happy.
I lost weight for me. I feel great! I enjoy the results and have gone in the opposite direction. After years of not wearing make up or paying attention to my wardrobe I'm now doing so. But I'm not doing it to impress anyone else but for myself...because it makes ME feel good.
Everyone's path to happiness is different. What counts is not how you get there but that you arrive.
I was not blaming men because of her self image. I was however saying that her husband was a contributing factor. In her many posts that I have read it doesn't appear that he has tried to make her feel special. Instead she feels like she is competing with his ideal, porn and women he thinks about. What should she do? Well, kick a little ass frankly. Nothing feels as good as taking care of yourself for yourself. That is an easy statement to make however when you are confident. It isn't an easy statement to digest when you are lacking in confidence. Blanca, you are so much stronger than you think.
As for all men objectifying women, no. Looking at a nice looking woman and appreciating a nice looking woman is one thing. Comparing her to a sports car is ridiculous. We aren't the same.
fairly assign responsibility to the party ultimately responsible for how we feel about ourselves...ourselves.
LIL
I agree with this- to an extent. I feel its more a combination of who you are around, your childhood, and also your own choices. I dont think its entirely any single person that shapes an individuals self-esteem. And I try to stick with what i know definitively. i do know that if things had stayed the way they were in my marriage i could not have stayed. and i also know that if i stay or not, i will have to deal with this low self-esteem. my H is changing for the better so i feel its now an environment that i can change. otherwise, i would have to leave. its what i know- and as simple as that.
I really appreciate all of your comments. ive been thinking about it a lot this week. ive been thinking i need to start working out, eating better, and finding some uplifting people to be around (hardest part for me). Ive been trying to watch my thoughts, not necessarily stop them but just listen to what im telling myself. I went to that website WantsHap and it looks really good. Im definitely going to dive into that as soon as my classes are done. i think it will be really helpful. ive let the thoughts take on a life of their own.
I know no one pays much attention...including my H. that's the problem. lol i dont really care what any one else thinks.
my low self-esteem is not just an physical appearance issue. its a whole lot of things. i feel inferior in every way possible.
I do take myself way too seriously sometimes, though. i never used too. i never used to care about anything. now i care about everything. guess i'll have to find the balance. thanks again for the feedback.
Having said this, her complaining and getting down in the dumps about her body image is NOT atrractive at all and just turns me off.
Maybe a bit of emotional detachment might help to 'get you mojo back', as us guys put it.
I'm sure he'll pickup on this new attitude and want to be close to you as you'll have an attractive attitude.
My wifey gets mad at me when she 'thinks' I looked at a girl she 'knows' I would want to 'play' with. You must understand that just because a guy looks at another women, or even porn, does not mean that he actually wants to or will cheat. To us it's just like looking at a nice car drive by. So don't let this get to you so much.
My favourite quote: "we objectify women for the same reason women objectify men: to be able to see our personal fantasies in them".
No woman wants to be a man's crappy practical car, she wants to be the one he lusts after!
Its important not to base your entire sexuality or self worth on this though!
I'm sure you already know you cant be the fantasy and the reality at the same time. You could probably get better at segregating these roles/selves in your mind if you wanted but maybe what you really want is to feel like you are his ideal woman, not fantasy woman.
I think its important to realise you can eclipse his view of what an ideal woman is when you are fulfilling your own view of what an ideal woman / you is. To heal the scars you've gotten it might help to read this website. It did for me.
Re: how to get past negative self-image 
I completely get it. Having someone you love not even pay attention to you or be attracted to you is downright awful and few things kill your self esteem as much. 
