inabox

I have been browsing this forum for a little bit (just registered) trying to see if my problem is in anyway unique. Sadly its not.

I'm a 28 year old male with a wife and kids.
We've been together for longer than 10 years (I don't want to reveal too much).

Anyway it seems like the dominant problem on here is sex or lack thereof. It seems to clearly be a problem more so for the men then for the women. For men sex is important in a relationship for many women it seems not to be.

I've been reading many suggestions by both the men and the women of the board on how to fix the problem. Everything from talking about it to denying sex and see how they like it. I have tried all of these already and none seem to give the long term results that I am seeking.

Usually following one of my attempts at talking about it, it follows with a small uptick in sexual activity and then it falls back to normal. When I do the other extreme of complete avoidance it just prolongs the annoyance!

My wife has made the argument that we are having sex more often then I can remember.

I am pretty analytical, and decided to somehow prove to me wife that its really not as often as she thinks it is.
So for the last 7 months I have been keeping track of how often we have actually had sex.

I've put it with dates, the time of the night and the duration of time we have it and a ranking (1-5). I've even put descriptions and explanations on the gaps, everything from headaches to aunt flo.

At one point following the children it was a lack of "feeling sexy" and her body not looking to same. Lets just say I threw money at this problem with little gain at all in the result.

I found that on average people in my age bracket have sex on average upwards of 100+ times per year. (Reading this board I am sure those analysts would differ ). As it stands now towards the end of June we have had sex a WHOPPING 15 times.

On the same analysis (Link Here) it shows that people in the 30-40 group have sex 80+ times per year and the 40-50 group have it on average 60+ times per year.

At this rate you can see my frustration as it doesn't seem like I'll break the 50's club!

My question is, have any women been confronted from their man with an actual break down of how often or how little they actually have sex? I can't be the only one that has done this.

I am debating on weather or not I should bring this up to her NOW or wait till my set 1 year time period. My objective was to gather a years worth of data and present her with it, but its been bothering me a lot lately. I want SEX damn it! Is that too much to ask for?

My next step is to document it by the day, probably a 60 day period to show the excuses on a daily basis. During this period I'll stop my avoidance attempts and just do the little soft stuff that women so crave all the time throughout the day for an hour of POSSIBLE satisfaction they may or may NOT give their husbands at the end of the night.

Its probably my last step before seeking professional help from a counselor, but figured maybe someone on here has been presented with this and the result.

Any advice is also very welcome.

swedish

I have never received anything like that in writing, but can tell you it would annoy me if my husband was in effect compiling a list of what he viewed as my negative behavior just to prove he was right. It definitely would not make me want to have sex with him more often.

A few years back my husband and I were in the same place. Mine were with depression, self-image issues...he was having issues dealing with my kids (he's their step-dad) & every time he'd say 'I can't deal with this...I can't take this' it just pushed me further away. It was impossible for me to get close to someone I felt was eventually going to bail.

Anyway, once we were forced to deal with our marriage we both learned some things that we had probably said to each other before (he'd want more sex...i'd say it's not a physical thing for me i need to feel connected)...but he/I didn't really get it. I read some interesting books and looked in some forums like this and realized that most men need sex...it wasn't like me that enjoys the closeness etc. and he understood what I meant about feeling close and connected to him...no, it really wasn't just excuses to avoid him!

Anyway, that was really it...really understanding what the other person is saying, taking it seriously and wanting them to be happy.

michzz

I totally get compiling proof because you need validation about what you know to be true, that your wife is avoiding intimacy.

the thing is, your wife will both deny that is so and continue avoiding intimacy at an even greater intensity once she is boxed in by your proof. She will refute your proof and punish you for it.

I did a similar thing, just marking a calendar each time we had sex to prove to her that it was once a month or less. She was emphatic that it was once a week (bad enough) except when she was x, y, or z.

I showed it to her when I said I do not want a sexless marriage anymore.

Her reaction? That she had her own calendar that proves otherwise!

So I ask her to get it out and show it to me. of course she refused, she said it was private.

Yeah, it didn't exist!

Did our sex life improve? heck no, she doesn't want to have more sex than she is already having.

Was it worth it? On one level, yes. Because I was able to call BS to her lying.

On another level, no, because it didn't cause a positive reassessment of her deliberate denial of sufficient intimacy expressed by her husband.

So getting back to what you did. Bravo for validating the reality of your situation. But please realize the futility of compiling a data base of facts when you are dealing with an irrational spouse who will be dismissive of both the truth and having their nose rubbed in it.

stumped

I have a couple questions.......

How are you initiate sex? Are you asking for it or do you try to kiss, caress etc to initiate it?

Im not sure if this is an allowable question or if it is too personal but to keep it clean does your wifes door bell ring during sex or do you make sure it does at some point during sex?

How often are you trying to initiate sex?

swedish

If your goal is to win the argument about how much sex you have, this will work.

I can't see it leading to more sex, though.

What is your goal after all? Keep your eyes on the prize

TheLuckiest08

If you bring up these statistics with your wife it will GUARANTEE that you get no sex.

Who cares about statistics?? My husband and I have been together 8 years and have sex once a week, on rare occasions twice. We're 28 and 29. If it were up to me we'd be having it more, but my husband has a lower sex drive than I do and is usually too tired when he comes home from work. Do I confront him with a list of times we had sex and statistics about what OTHER couples are doing? NO.

You guys have two kids...how much do you help out with them? Moms with young kids are usually exhausted. Maybe take the kids and go somewhere once in a while so she can have time to herself.

I understand your frustration, I really do because I've been the one who's been frustrated. But you really just have to compromise and realize it's not the most important thing.

Also, IMO 15 times in 6 months isn't that bad. It's not like she's not having sex with you at all.

michzz

I like to live in the truth of how things are, not in a whitewashed thing. if it turns out that my wife would have more sex with me if I did x, y, and z, I would do it and in fact have done those things. net result? Same as the original poster.

I want to be sure that I have done all that I can to revive things. I can only do that. I cannot get my wife to acknowledge that there is serious problem when her position is that there is no problem.

If I escalate things to the point of divorce, an increasing possibility, one I have even raised with her, then my conscience is clear. I jumped through hoops.

If my wife is so disengaged from our shared intimacy then so be it. When I disengage entirely, then she can't say she wasn't warned about the effects of that disengagement.

swedish

I was probably in her position at one point & in all honesty, most of my married friends were having less sex than we were so I did not see it as a problem. It was only after I had done some reading and really understood how this made my husband feel, was I able to make changes in this area. I honestly did not get it before that.

I'm starting to think maybe women should have to meet a room full of men in almost/sexless marriages and listen to how they are feeling at what they are thinking prior to getting married.

and to be fair, men should have to sit on a public toilet with the seat up

michzz

What I do not understand is how i can say it directly, even in marriage counselling, show her books and articles on the subject, and still no grokking of it as serious by her.

We're not talking about pestering her for sex every day whimpering like a hound wanting in the kitchen door. in fact, there are many extended periods of time where i just let it go. I even let it ride for 18 months not too long ago just to see how long she'd go before even mentioning it was occurring.

Not a peep out of her about it. I had to bring it up. That particular drought started when i complained that once every several months was not normal. But I am not going to beg, you let me know when you want to be intimate again.

She NEVER brought it up.

I was so angry. Yeah rejection hurts.

Her reasoning? She was not going to bring it up because i made it an issue, not her.

So she turned it into a pissing match.

swedish

Here's another thought...I totally agree that this was an issue for my husband and not for me. And when reading from the man's point of view what is normal as far as how often they want it, etc. gave me some insight, but still was not my issue.

Here's what made it my issue (right or wrong as far as what I read) That men are visual creatures and often look at other women (pictures or in real life) and imagine having sex with them. OK, I know I was naive in this area but this freaked me out and so I asked my husband if this was true and he said yes...which freaked me out even more but I'm glad he was honest.

So I figured the less satisfied he is with the sex within the marriage the more likely he is to look elsewhere...not necessarily act on it but even the looking and temptation is disturbing to me...mainly because I can't say that I've ever looked at a man and wanted to have sex with him...get to know him maybe or think he's attractive but I just don't look at men in a sexual way until I've known them a while and then become attracted & wouldn't think of going there since I'm married. Don't know if that's a woman thing or a me thing.

Anyway, I guess this enlightenment made it my issue in some way as I do have a vested interest in keeping his focus on me (although I'm sure he still looks when I'm not there) Not to say all men are this way or think this way but it did make me think.

BlueCreek

I absolutely have been where you are and can almost guarantee you that compiling stats will just tick her off. One of the important things to understand is that stats mean squat. What is normal for one couple is abnormal for another. Just because the average couple has sex X/month means diddley to the person who simple does not feel that desire or interest, no matter how much they love you.

Generally speaking, the one with the lower labido simply does not see it as their problem. I went around and around with my wife for seven years trying to get her to understand how tightly integrated my intimacy needs were to my emotional ones. As many hints as I dropped, as many ways as I tried to explain the loneliness, rejection, and misery the issue was giving me, she never saw it as anything but a physical need, and that was my issue to deal as the one who was "over sexed". It was only after she finally got it, finally understood how unhappy I was because my emotional needs were not being met, that things turned around for us.

Now I'm happier, and consequently she is happier because I am a better husband and father when I'm not depressed half the time. Also, she discovered that she can feel plenty of desire, she just needs to work up to it and be stimulated before it kicks in. Before she just never wanted intimacy because the desire wasn't there to drive her to want to do anything. So anyway, don't give up, and unless it is obvious she is directly trying to hurt you, try not to take it to personally as rejection.

Healing

I just want to say that thinking of keeping count makes me really sad.

My hubby and I have had sex 3 times from the beginning of 2008 to present. I didn't want to keep count but last year (2007), I think we had sex maybe 8 times in total. I have gone for months without any sexual intimacy, not even in a broader sense like making out or kissing.

And it really upsets me. I'm not the one not wanting it. I don't think anything is wrong with me physically or appearance-wise. It isn't true that its always wives who have low libido, lots of women on these boards and everywhere are getting neglected by their husbands as well.

There's just so little help for wives like me. Sometimes I feel like giving up hope, I don't know why it has to be so hard.

I have tried everything, I don't know what else to do. I don't even care how satisfying it is for me, I just want to be intimate in some way, any way. Its so difficult when I know that there would be plenty of men out there jumping to hook up with me but all I want is HIM. I sometimes wonder if I just tell him that I've had enough and I'm giving up, whether he will fight to keep me or just give up.

draconis

Actually we are about 200+ times a year 3-5 times a week. But more then sex makes up a good marriage. Communication, understanding, trust, and love all play a big role.

draconis

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inabox

Yeah but the 200+ times a year is a HUGE positive.

michzz

Perspective please! 200+ and you're complaining?

Deprivation? Try less than once a month.