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Emasculating a man? Is that even possible?

70K views 902 replies 66 participants last post by  alexm 
#1 ·
I have heard this mentioned here on TAM. But to me, that does not even seem possible. How can you take masculinity away from a man? Isn't that something inside of him, his essence?

I cannot see how anyone can take my femininity away from me. It is my essence.

How do you take someone's essence away?

I am not even sure they can surrender it. Wouldn't your essence always spring forth, at some point?
 
#269 ·
A female would just be disempowered? Is that a word? LOL I dunno.

But the whole sexual revolution had woman trying to empower themselves because for so long they were told their place and were expected to accept it.
 
#271 ·
That's why I always said I'm a CO-PARENT when her dad was in it with me.

.....

I did find that an equivalent to emasculate is defeminate. Still not a word? hahaha. But I don't think this to be true.

I think trying to take the SELF out of anyone is what the core of this is. Trying to break someone. Trying to take away power. Trying to make someone live beneath you in status.

male or female, it's wrong.
 
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#272 · (Edited)
Question... What term would a man or woman who is both single and a parent (and, presumably, an involved parent) use to describe himself or herself to others? I ask because I don't believe that I've ever heard anyone mention in conversation that he or she is a "co-parent"; I've only ever heard "I'm a single mom" or "I'm a single dad".
 
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#273 ·
Question... What term would a man or woman who is both single and a parent (and, presumably, an involved parent) use to describe himself or herself to others? I ask because I've never heard anyone mention in conversation that he or she is a "co-parent". I've only ever heard "I'm a single mom" or "I'm a single dad".
Well, however they want to describe themselves is up to them. But when I hear "single mom/dad", I assume the other parent isn't around.

My daughter's best friend is raised by her dad. Single dad. Mom took off when child was a year old. Drug user.

I liked using co-parent because it was exactly what I was. He was a GREAT FATHER when he was one. I didn't want to diminish that or make people think something that wasn't true (that I was single. And a mom. AND the dad wasn't around.)
 
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#275 ·
Well, imo, it is not love. It's not even selfish. It's beyond that. It's the need to control something because one cannot find control within themselves. Happy people don't treat other people like crap...they just don't!

When someone has to dominate over another that they "love", that is not love. That is a reflection of the one trying to dominate the other...low self esteem, etc. It is not love. That person doesn't love themselves so how could they possibly show love for another person?

Love doesn't want to win or break someone. Love wants to celebrate and lift people up...sure things can get crunchy at times, but LOVE makes sure that you can work it out respectfully and with love.

That's just how I see it anyway. Anything short of love isn't love and THAT has been my work lately. Words are cheap. Just because someone says they LOVE you, doesn't mean it's true. Sure they may love that you're around for them to abuse, but they do not love you. The do not love YOU as a beautiful being all your own.
 
#274 · (Edited)
Ugh. I should've listened to the nagging voice in my head that's been telling me to just stay out of this thread. Some of the posts in the first half are so frustrating that I cannot muster the presence of mind to respond intelligently to them.
 
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#306 ·
Ugh. Somehow I knew that I should have just stayed out of this thread. Some of the posts in the first half are so frustrating that I cannot muster the presence of mind to respond intelligently to them.
Brings back bad memories of the 102 pg thread eventually closed by French Fry.. posted by the OP about how a cheating wife gets pregnant by OM and should expect a husband to forgive and raise the OM baby...hmmm
 
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#282 ·
Mrs J,

I like you. Always have.

I get why you had the affair. It made you feel special.

But I don't understand why you told your H that the other man was hotter than he was. I don't understand why you described the affair in a manner that seemed intentionally hurtful to Mr. J.

The affair - is like robbery - you get something good from it.

But the manner in which you described it, felt like vandalism. You crushed him - the guy who loved you. But I don't see how that benefitted you.
 
#277 ·
Hell yes it's possible. I believe the essence of the concept has to do with the subject's social or familial role, standing, status etc. (in other words, how he is perceived by others and himself) rather than some inviolable inner self. Degrading or negating this stature (humiliation, as Thundarr suggests, is an example) constitutes emasculation. The wife who cheats on her husband emasculates him in the eyes of those who know (including the husband himself if he knows). The family breadwinner in an earlier age was emasculated if he lost his job or means to support his family. His identity as the family's means of support was taken from him.

That which constitutes masculinity in the familial and social sense may have changed over time, but it can still be taken away. Emasculation makes one less masculine (a social concept), not less male (an inherent characteristic).

My two cents.
 
#299 ·
Or maybe taking away a woman's ability to have children.

Or losing her vaginal cavity (this happened to a HS friend of mine who had a weird cancer and they had to cut out her vagina and recreate it :eek: :( )
 
#303 ·
Right. These are all physical acts that definitely create a loss. Removal of the breasts, complete hysterectomy, infertility, vaginal cavity, yep, a definite, permanent loss.

Hurt feelings, even deeply, deeply hurt feelings, on the other hand, are much more easily repaired.
 
#302 ·
One must find inner security. And that's hard to do. It's part of my self-work though.

In this moment I am ok. I am ok in this moment.

I have said that to myself 1,000 a day at some points lately.
 
#304 ·
One must find inner security. And that's hard to do. It's part of my self-work though.
:iagree:

Developing it, and maintaining it, is work for all of us. And only we can do it.
 
#315 ·
Yep..and we are only on pg 22..should we start making bets now? I can put a in a $50...I think this thread won't make it to 40 pgs...TAMer's are tired of this kind of debate.
 
#320 ·
If you don't like the topic of this thread, then don't participate.

As far as I've seen, this is the only thread we've had on whether or not one person and 'emasculate' another.

But hey, you do what whatever you want.
 
#319 ·
Gus, I don't think it's passive aggressive to think that the comforts of security become a distant memory after a marital crisis (Whatever it is).

I certainly felt like they were distant memories when my husband walked out on us 3 years ago without warning. Just got an apartment and left. Boom.

Then I started realizing that those feelings of security shouldn't be expected to come from someone else, just myself. Sure, someone can help make things stronger, but my security has to be mine. Something no one can take away with selfish behavior.
 
#324 ·
Then I started realizing that those feelings of security shouldn't be expected to come from someone else, just myself. Sure, someone can help make things stronger, but my security has to be mine. Something no one can take away with selfish behavior.
:iagree:
 
#327 ·
Jld said : And working on his character offers so many lifelong benefits.
I am ALL for working on Character.. (women too of course).....I think your husband would enjoy my thread on this...swing it past him ...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...thy-praise-honor-minus-alpha-beta-debate.html

Though I think all men struggle with some of those --but I don't think we need to throw them under the bus for it...we are only human after all.. if my H was perfect, I'd feel more imperfect in his presence...

I think he needs to be himself. He needs to feel his feelings. And he needs to own his recovery.

His recovery is not his wife's responsibility. It is his.

She owns her affair and her own recovery. Each tub must stand on its own bottom.
Do you really think it is wrong or weakness for a couple to WANT to help each other muddle through this...all the heartbreaking emotions..and how one/ they may have hurt each other (no story is alike).....I can't go there....I completely understand Mrs John Adams post to you... utterly.. I would BE and feel just as she does had I been in her shoes..

So if the man cheated... do you see it the same, the wife should stand tall and not need his ongoing love, re-assurance .. or is it different for the woman...because she is more vulnerable and emotionally weaker? Is this another double standard ?

To really listen/ hear their stories of those who have waded through it and came out the other side.. and are happy and thriving today, how can we tell them they did it wrong... if they are content and view it differently than yourself.. ya know.. they are one of the marital success stories!!

Again, I ask...does our individual views really matter on this?.. .. if the Love and will is there.... if one WANTS to help the other stand..if they are both benefiting ..and the feedback loop has been this thriving energizing gift to each other wrapped in forgiveness.. and reawakened passion ...
 
#335 ·
SA, I feel bad for Mrs. Adams. I don't know why Mr. Adams needs so much help.

Sure, it is their business, but when I see women feeling so guilty, and responsible, this far on, I cannot help but feel compassionate towards them and want to lift their burden.

I think if I cheated, SA, that of course Duguesclin would be angry, and hurt, and would cry. And I know he would forgive me. I know him. He would end up carrying me, helping me to forgive myself.

He is strong, SA. He just is. And he loves me, utterly.

And yes, he definitely sees me as weaker than himself. Right or wrong, I know that is how he sees me.
 
#336 ·
SA, I feel bad for Mrs. Adams. I don't know why Mr. Adams needs so much help.

Sure, it is their business, but when I see women feeling so guilty, and responsible, this far on, I cannot help but feel compassionate towards them and want to lift their burden.

I think if I cheated, SA, that of course Duguesclin would be angry, and hurt, and would cry. And I know he would forgive me. I know him. He would end up carrying me, helping me to forgive myself.

He is strong, SA. He just is. And he loves me, utterly.

And yes, he definitely sees me as weaker than himself. Right or wrong, I know that is how he sees me.
And here we have it... Confirmation that Mr. jld is, in fact, human, and capable of human emotion no less.

Wow. Fascinating.
 
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#337 ·
My best friend got pregnant while in divorce filings. Pregnant by another man. She hadn't cheated, and she was on the depo shot. It was not planned. It was a tragic time. She asked me if she should abort. THAT was so telling of her pain over this because she doesn't believe in abortion.

The pregnancy was discovered and her STBX was welcoming. The boyfriend took off...

From finding out she was pregnant to the birth, she and her husband worked things out. I don't know how, but I do know a TON Of IC therapy was happening for her husband.

He's accepted this child as his own and is very much about this child. I didn't understand it, I still don't, but it's what works for them. He's on the birth certificate. It's his child as far as he can see. His family won't accept it. They call her a wh0re. He stopped all contact with his family.

So I know it does happen. I don't know if I would be that way, but hey, love is love. I get to see them soon!! Going on vacation to where they live :D
 
#345 ·
My best friend got pregnant while in divorce filings. Pregnant by another man. She hadn't cheated, and she was on the depo shot. It was not planned. It was a tragic time. She asked me if she should abort. THAT was so telling of her pain over this because she doesn't believe in abortion.

The pregnancy was discovered and her STBX was welcoming. The boyfriend took off...

From finding out she was pregnant to the birth, she and her husband worked things out. I don't know how, but I do know a TON Of IC therapy was happening for her husband.

He's accepted this child as his own and is very much about this child. I didn't understand it, I still don't, but it's what works for them. He's on the birth certificate. It's his child as far as he can see. His family won't accept it. They call her a wh0re. He stopped all contact with his family.

So I know it does happen. I don't know if I would be that way, but hey, love is love. I get to see them soon!! Going on vacation to where they live :D
Now that is love! :smthumbup:
 
#350 ·
We did not have trouble conceiving, but even if we had, we would have adopted. As much fun as it is to be just the two of us, I think we just would not have been satisfied without children.

I had a bit of a hard time when I found out I had to stop at five. I wanted two more. But I worked through it. And really, I am lucky to have my five.
 
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#360 ·
If my husband had a child from cheating...oooh I'd be HOT. HOT HOT. (Couldn't happen, he's been snipped) but if it did...wow.

That being said, it's my daughters' sibling. I would try to work with the mother for visitation. Siblings need each other.

My dad took off from my mom and got another woman pregnant before divorce was final. Married that woman soon after. My sisters (twins) were born. My dad left that family soon after (gawd, good guy :rolleyes:) My mom and my step mom got us together every year, twice a year until I could drive out myself to see them. We are close to this day. I love my sisters.

It was hard for my mom and I'm sure it was hard for my stepmom. They were the "OW" to each other...or whatever...but they'd sip coffee and make small talk for their children to know each other.

My sister is getting custody of her ex's daughter (she has a son with her ex). He didn't cheat but had the child a year after he left my sister. it's my sister's mentality that the child is her son's sister so she doesn't want them split up. The mother is in and out of rehab and no one wants to take the child so my sister is fighting for her.

Love is love.
 
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#365 ·
Yeah, this idea that a man who would accept another man's child is a pushover or a doormat is just crazy. "Gentleness can only be expected from the strong," as the saying goes.

Ele and tg, these are great stories tonight! I love them!

Tg, I know you have had a hard time with your mom, but wow! She and the OW were able to set aside their differences for the sake of the kids. I have to respect that.

So glad you both shared these!
 
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#370 ·
#381 ·
Well, OK. Maybe I should have alluded to emotional management instead of emotional suppression.

Either way, the emotions are still there, but they're sort of redirected (and, hopefully, constructively).
 
#392 ·
Whoever files divorce, I'm sure it's for good reason. I don't live in the home, I don't know what goes on.

And men also pull shady things during divorce.

There are shady men and women. I know that.

Women may use their children as pull. Men use money and assets.

I guess it's just not in my nature to be one of those women. Even as angry as I was at my husband...as much as I wanted to rip his face off with my teeth at some points...I was absolutely fair in the divorce.
 
#402 ·
Looking back at the original question, I'm thinking another way to emasculate a man is through a lack of responsibility. I've certainly heard my fair share of Peter Pan syndrome/play video games all day stories. A man who is protected and sheltered from the stress of responsibility will rarely show up as a man. Uncalloused skin will blister; untempered blades will break. I'd say I see a lot of this in society today, and yes, I'd say its emasculating, as well.
 
#403 ·
In this case it's the man choosing to play the games and ignore any responsibilities. That's on him.

In the past there were plenty of men who ignored all responsibility. they hung out at the pub all day, at the park with friends. video games just make it even easier because they never have to even leave the house.
 
#405 ·
It's interesting that despite the fact that both genders can and do undermine one another, there is only a term for it when women do it to men. This certainly doesn't mean that women undermine men more than vice versa, it's just that it's somehow seen as more acceptable because traditionally:-

Male/Female = Dominant/Subordinate​

Women's roles have changed dramatically over the last 50 odd years. Women have become more visible and assertive in society, and both genders need to adapt to it rather than feel threatened by / abuse it.
 
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#410 ·
This thread has also left me feeling bad. It started out with the proposition that emasculation can't exist then promptly moved to the assertion that if it does indeed exist it is the victims fault that it does exist. The ensuing 25 pages have just been rehashing that point.
I get it I agreed to be married, thereby giving up my manhood. the only way I can get it back is by getting divorced.
MN
 
#415 ·
The assertion is that everyone needs strong boundaries and to be in charge of their own self-image. We all have power and we have to accept responsibility for what we do with it.

We can all be victims, Mr. Nail. Do we want to stay in victimhood?

When I hear, "She emasculated me," I hear, "I have no power. I gave it all to her."

You can take your power back. You can use it to protect yourself.
 
#416 · (Edited)
This has a lot to do with what I tend to post about. Yes, I think a man can be emasculated.

Indeed it is about integrity and essence. We can also say that for this to happen the man must cooperate.

Let's put aside for the moment those who are inherently weak, have low self esteem, poor boundaries and or low integrity.

Many men, including myself, lead life to some extent with some type of armor around them. It is a protection mechanism. Many of us have been taught to suck it up and rub some dirt on it. That we have to endure and take the hurt and protect others. That ultimately we are to sacrifice for the greater good and those who cannot defend themselves even.

Also I am amazed on TAM sometimes when people go about attacking the male ego and how men's feelings and needs are discounted and ridiculed. This all plays into it.

So a man takes a real risk when he lets down his guard. But he can take a certain amount of hurt here.

Not letting down your guard can be very lonely. To have true intimacy with a woman IMO, you have to take off the armor. Let them in. Arguably, a man should maintain some amount of integrity in any case. But suffice it to say that if you get hit by the right thing you can be destroyed. Is it permanent? Fo some it can be. It may just cause the man to never trust again.

I am not talking about small things that chip away. The man must have boundaries. I am talking about big ticket items. Like banging his boss or the guy who says all women are slvts. Just shooting from the hip here. Depth of betrayal. The less the man cares about the woman the less hurt there would be. So not caring is a type of armor. I think a sexless marriage can get to this point especially if the man stays for the children.
 
#420 ·
This has a lot to do with what I tend to post about. Yes, I think a man can be emasculated.

Indeed it is about integrity and essence. We can also say that for this to happen the man must cooperate.

Let's put aside for the moment those who are inherently weak, hvae low self esteem, poor boundaries and or low integrity.

Many men, including myself, lead life to some extent with some type of armor around them. It is a protection mechanism. Many of us have been taught to suck it up and rub some dirt on it. That we have to endure and take the hurt and protect others. That ultimately we are to sacrifice for the greater good and those who cannot defend themselves even.

Also I am amazed on TAM sometimes when people go about attacking the male ego and how men's feelings and needs are discounted and ridiculed. This all plays into it.

So a man takes a real risk when he lets down his guard. But he can take a certain amount of hurt here.

Not letting down your guard can be very lonely. To have true intimacy with a woman IMO, you have to take off the armor. Let them in. Arguably, a man should maintain some amount of integrity in any case. But suffice it to say that if you get hit by the right thing you can be destroyed. Is it permanent? Fo some it is may be. It may just cause the man to never trust again.

I am not talking about small things that chip away. The man must have boundaries. I am talking about big ticket items. Like banging his boss or the guy who says all women are slvts. Just shooting from the hip here. The less the man cares about the woman the less hurt there would be. So not caring is a type of armor. I think a sexless marriage can get to this point especially if the man stays for the children.
Thank. God. Now where's the Honey Badger?
 
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