It happens to everyone at some point. He does something stupid, totally by accident, totally without malice or bad intent... just a dumb mistake. It wasn't even something huge (though to her the result is huge of course). She gets mad. MAD mad.
He apologizes, he feels AWFUL. He can only really say "I'm sorry" so many times, because it was just an innocent, albeit stupid mistake. But in her mind, she might as well have been publicly beaten, and had the video posted online.
OK so I'm not saying that she isn't wrong to be upset -- I recognize that it was a big deal to her. But really it was an accident, and I feel that after a certain point, continuing to be mad at me is just hurting both of us and gaining nothing.
Women: when your men make a "dumb man-mistake", and you are livid at the result, what gets you to stop stonewalling and just let it go? Do you need token gestures like flowers and candy and presents? Do you need satisfaction (he has to do a bunch of chores) or do I basically just have to sit and take it until she decides she's worked through it?
when your men make a "dumb man-mistake", and you are livid at the result, what gets you to stop stonewalling and just let it go? Do you need token gestures like flowers and candy and presents? Do you need satisfaction (he has to do a bunch of chores) or do I basically just have to sit and take it until she decides she's worked through it?
Depends on what the 'dumb man mistake' was. If it was a big mistake, like a breach of trust, then I take a long, long time to get over it. But I have major trust issues.
If he buys me flowers, etc and expects that should get me over 'it', then i get pissed. I cant be bought. the suggestion is insulting.
If he ever tells me i should get over something then i get pissed. I should get over 'it' when im good and ready. Telling someone they should get over something is an attempt to emotionally control another.
i tell my H that every time i start stonewalling him, as you call it, just apologize. Listen and apologize. its pretty simple.
If you cant do the time then dont commit the crime...
One thing I do now, which I could not do when I was young and hot headed, is to listen, take the blame, and say sorry with out arguing or defending myself. Of course it has to be authentic. I have found it works, but you may have to take more than one "beating", before she feels validated.
oooh, similar incident happened to me (I am a female).
My DH did not support me at a family function (his family) when I wanted to leave a few hours early (we drove seperately and it was an 8 day vacation up north). He wanted me to stay, I wanted to leave. He over reacted and got really upset with me. It got out of hand.
Anyhow, I brought it up a few nights later (usually he lets these things slide under the rug and just "go away" while I bury them and bring them up later) and told him I felt no support from him and he should have had no problem with me wanting to go home the night before. All he says is "sorry". That's it. No feeling, no emotion. And usually after bickering with me for a good 15 minutes first. When he sees he won't "win", he says "sorry" and feels that's good enough.
What did I want? Him to listen. Him to put himself in my shoes.
therefore, if I were you, I would say to your wife (only after listening to her and really understanding, not waiting to state my defense) "honey, you are right. I did a dumb thing. I understand you are mad at me. I would be too, if I were you. All I can say is that I made a mistake, I upset you and that was not my intention. I'll give you some time and if you want to talk about it again at a later date, I'll listen. I'm very sorry."
I know, I know, sounds corny. But that is really all I want. Maybe a day or two later (depending how long it takes me to calm down or destress) if he came over and gave me a hug or said something funny/silly like "am I still in the doghouse or can I take you out to dinner tonight?" I would probably smile and that would be the end of that. Unfortuneately, that's not how things happen in my world. He can go weeks without talking to me. Then he takes my issue and makes it his own. Becoming a victim to my "abuse".
I think women like to vent. Yet, like men, they need time to get over things. Let them vent at first. Give them time. They will miss you after a day or 2. Then do something cute or give her a puppy dog face and ask for forgiveness. Something silly. Break the tension. This won't work right away, you have to let some time go by.
I explicitly said it was NOT something big. It did not involve trust, property damage, high cost, or anything really "serious" (ie: that most rational people would consider a big deal). Think on the level of not putting a new roll of TP on, and she was momentarily inconvenienced. Something that really, if it happened to anyone else, she'd be saying "its not a big deal".
---"If he ever tells me i should get over something then i get pissed"
This is what frustrated me the most. Because YOU are upset over it, its the biggest thing in the world. You don't care that it was an accident, and that I meant no harm, all you know are your own feelings.
Now, I was given the advice to see it from another perspective...
OK so how about this... when I'm watching football, and you ask me to do anything.... ANYTHING, then I expect to be able to stonewall you, and have you begging for my forgiveness. After all,
1) I have asked repeatedly for you to leave me be while I watch football -- since you failed to do that, you must not be listening to me. It is unacceptable to say you "forgot" because I've told you at least 4 times, therefore I am extrapolating that you must not care at all about my feelings, and you must not respect me.
2) I have done a, b, c, d... for you already. Sometimes, it is better for both of us, if you just do the thing yourself rather than expect me to be your butler. The fact that you ask me for help constantly can be extrapolated into you being lazy, selfish, and once again, disrespectful.
3) Since football is very important to me, you should understand that I want to enjoy it as much as possible. When you interrupt me, it shows me that you do not value my interests at all, and therefore must not love me.
4) The thing that you are asking me to do is less significant than watching football is. In my opinion, since a delay will not cause a loss of human life, destruction of property, or any other threatening of our basic needs, it can wait.
OK if you are reading what I wrote, and saying "you're crazy! its not that bad" well think again. That feeling you just had about me being ridiculous and unreasonable is EXACTLY how I felt when I was being read the riot act for what I did.
I am not writing that to be malicious or attack anyone. I want you to know just what it felt like to be "the wrongdoer".
However, I think I was able to answer my own question. When somebody feels as passionate about something as in my original post, there is NO POINT WHATSOEVER in trying to talk it out. The person who committed the crime (me in this case) has three very simple choices.
1) Put up with the abuse, let it ruin your day/week, let yourself be victimized, and wait until the "victim" decides to talk.
2) Stonewall back. Do not let it affect you, enjoy the time to yourself, and wait for the person to talk.
3) If the wrongdoer wants peace before the "victim" decides to forgive, it will be EXPENSIVE. Punishments, favors, presents... whatever it takes.
The issue is resolved now (sadly, through a combination of 1, and 3). My goal in life is to master solution 2.
---"I have made it clear to my wife that I won't put up with that kind of thing, ever again."
This is why I say that number 2 is the only option that will work (at least the way I want it to). I suppose that makes me cold and heartless, but better that than be a victim.
Of course if I had told her when she started getting upset "stop it now" and if she persisted, I ignored her completely, then she'd be on here telling the world about how I don't listen or care about her feelings.
let me understand... you were doing something that SHE KNOWS you want to do undisturbed, yet she interupted you anyway?
Yeah, that's not cool.
Maybe come up with a compromise. Tell her that either she has to leave the house during your football games, or you go to a bar or elsewhere. OR, you get a room with a lock on it and a big tv and surround sound!
Or do what I might do, depending on the day of the week: wait for her to get all tied up in a tv movie and then interupt her with something similar.
I know, again, not nice.
---"I have made it clear to my wife that I won't put up with that kind of thing, ever again."
This is why I say that number 2 is the only option that will work (at least the way I want it to). I suppose that makes me cold and heartless, but better that than be a victim.
No, you have misunderstood me. I don't stonewall, I just don't signal my acceptance. And recently, I have learnt the master stroke of making a joke out of it. That is to say I rib her about it until she laughs. It took me a long time to get the lightness of touch going so that i could pull that off.
Women know they are moody, so what we as men have to do is bounce them out of it, with humour and slapstick and whatever.
I can say that I am a classic over-reactor and I realize that.
However, this tends to come into play a lot with my DH when he says something and it hurts my feelings and as soon as I react, he just jumps right to "I was just joking".
To me, it doesn't feel like a joking whether or not his intentions were to be playful. The thing that he doesn't realize is that feelings can get hurt despite his intentions.
I think if he just took a moment to think about what he had said and at least TRY to understand where I could've been hurt by it and just said that he understands why my feelings were hurt and although he just meant it as a joke, he is truly sorry for saying what he said. Maybe throw in, you know that I really don't think that and that I love you, etc...
The biggest mistake is that he just says "I was joking" and continues on with that defense until he says that I am too sensitive.
I do realize that I am sensitive, but he knows that too, so sometimes to think before he opens his mouth would help a lot!
Words can hurt no matter what purpose he has for saying them. And he can't make it not hurt by just saying that it was a joke or a lame "sorry".
Understanding, or even asking why, the over-reactor reacted that way helps a lot. Getting defensive only makes it worse.
I'm actually not even sure that I'm helping at all here, just sharing where I over-react I guess.
As for football, I am a constant football-widow!! DH is beyond a football fanatic. And yes, I feel sometimes that he puts football before me sometimes and I feel bitterness towards it at times. And I react accordingly at times. But I reserve this for when I can't listen to anymore sportscenter or what have you. I do not, however, interrupt a game, it's really just the constant news that bugs me.
We do make deals sometimes though. For example, a 15 minute backrub in exchange for an hour of football programming (other than a game) without hearing me complain or ask to change the channel. If it IS game day and I really don't feel like watching or hearing the game and am football-ed out, I usually ask for a bottle of wine so I can enjoy it and take a nice long bubble bath.
It's not that I don't respect his interest or understand it, I just don't like it when it becomes me vs. the patriots and I'm constantly fighting for his attention all season (again, I don't mind during the games!) and losing more often than not.
No, you have misunderstood me. I don't stonewall, I just don't signal my acceptance. And recently, I have learnt the master stroke of making a joke out of it. That is to say I rib her about it until she laughs. It took me a long time to get the lightness of touch going so that i could pull that off.
Women know they are moody, so what we as men have to do is bounce them out of it, with humour and slapstick and whatever.
wow, you should give lessons. It's so easy, I think. I agree with you. If every guy and gal did this, I think people would have more fun, be less sensitive and find more humor in things. Sometimes... some people don't want to be ribbed though. There are some days that people just want to be cranky I think. But this is excellent advice. I think it's gotta number 1 or 2 on the list of relationship do's and dont's.
I think that men have the capacity to listen to, remember and use the information they are given, but in their mind it just isn't as trivial to them as it is to us. We can't fault them for that, but they also need to not fault us for it at the same time. It is just like their football games, I think some women could never understand why men get so excited and scream at the tv when they know, well we know, that the players and coaching staff really don't hear them. To us it is trivial, but to them it's a utopia. Next week is the beginning of a looong season... Sunday is the only day my husband and I have off together. It's quite hard to spend time with someone when they have 3 football sheets spread out on the coffee table, their fantasy football tracker page pulled up on the computer and the other fantasy football team "ever so delicately" programmed into the tv.. Now, this is serious stuff here. There are what like 15 games on Sunday? ALL of which he HAS to watch some of.. In all of this, my husband knew that if he didn't somehow get me involved, it was going to be a long long day. I was born a Browns fan, he was born a Steelers fan... it gets pretty interesting. I never really cared until he got me my first football sheet. There was a bit of excitement knowing that I had a list of teams to root for, EVEN THOUGH I didn't know the quarterback from the center. BUT... he INCLUDED me. It wasn't "this is my time, run off and do your thing". By him doing something as simple as including me in the games in a small way, it didn't feel so much like it was HIS thing anymore.. His excitement became contagious instead of annoying. He takes the time to explain plays, penalties, strategies and I think he really enjoys the fact that he is teaching me something. This is of course not an overnight phenomenon, we've been together for 6 years and has been a slow process, but my excitement nearly doubles every year now.
Likewise, he has 'SOMEWHAT' become more sensitive to things that are important to me. Not all the time, but sometimes and that's a good start.
Now every Sunday, I get my jersey on, wrap my pigtails in brown and orange ribbons and SOMETIMES, I yell at the tv too..
---If you cant do the time then dont commit the crime...
I think this is part of the problem -- it continues to paint me as the bad guy when what I did was an ACCIDENT. This line of thinking on my gf's part prompts me to get madder because I did not do the thing on purpose. It makes me more motivated to attack back as saying she is overreacting, or to disconnect because she is not being receptive to what I am saying.
I suppose its inevitable that after a long time, the whole "sorry isn't good enough" becomes a part of daily life. After so many years, the result of the mistake is still the result regardless of the intent. Even if it was an accident, she was still inconvenienced, and there isn't any point in debating it because she still feels wronged.
MarkTwain's ideas are interesting, and I think that most of them seem so easy because they are intertwined, and because (most importantly of all) he started firm from the beginning. Its a lot easier to continue to take a hard line when you took that line from the beginning. I am in the irritating position of having to reclaim ground. I thought I was being accommodating and sensitive to her needs by compromising, but all it got me was dug deeper into situations where I have to fight harder to stay even.
If I had just, from the beginning, said "this nonsense won't fly" and left it at that, she'd have learned that stonewalling is pointless. As it is, I have to work extra hard now to get where I should have been at the beginning.
As far as "going right to the defense", I think that also relates to what happens when we are together so long. The progression goes something like this.
1) Thing causes her anguish, was it my fault?
1a: yes, apologize like crazy, take the punishment.
1b: no, go to step 2
2) Attempt to explain/defend accident. Does she accept?
2a: yes.... phew thank my lucky stars, crisis averted.
2b: no... oh crud, go to step 3
3) "Sorry doesn't cut it" She is mad. Now I can...
3a: stonewall, wait, and hope. This could take hours, or days.
3b: continue trying to explain, apologize, defend... hope that she accepts it. Get more and more frustrated because I feel like I am wrongfully persecuted, but that doesn't matter.
3c: go on the offensive, tell her to knock it off and stop being a child.
I'm hearing advice like "take responsibility". OK fine, I can do that. Now I run this risk...
4: take responsibility. Does she...
4a: accept and resolve
4b: accept and punish
4c: assume I am lying because she knows I know that that is what she wants to hear.
So now, I've accepted responsibility, which is what she says she wanted, and now I'm in even MORE trouble because now I must be lying, cuz after all, I "never" accept responsibility.
I guess this just comes down to my needing to be stronger about waiting it out. Talking to a person who is so absorbed in his/her being "right" is a waste. This is the person who will still argue that 2+2=5, despite you showing them on an abacus, calculator, and pile of stones that it equals 4.
No I did not start quite so firm, although I was no pushover that is true. And all these ideas that I am sharing here, I have only been using for less than a year. I used to get pissed, and react in all the ways you are talking about. Then I realised that WAR is a choice. And it does take two. If one refuses to fight - Game Over. To my mind, there is no place for warfare in a marriage. I feel like I have awoken from a long sleep, where I only imagined I was awake. And yet, I still feel I have not fully awoken. Oh well...
OK then, I guess there is hope for us all. I am glad its never too late. I was never a "pushover" either, but I certainly could have been a lot more firm.
So as I start to incorporate these strategies, I should be good to go. You are right that fighting can be a waste of time, so why bother.
Need strategies to de-fuse overreactors
