I think what it really comes down to for me, is that I want a man who will trust me enough to allow himself to be a little vulnerable. I want enough trust that he will be comfortable enough to show his emotions as well as being able to see mine and respond with compassion.
I don't want an uber sensitive, I kinda like the marlboro man thing, but behind closed doors I want him to be able to give me ALL of him, even what's deep down. I want the chance to show him the compassion I want to recieve and that is very difficult when you cannot read any emotion beyond happy and mad.
when my partner gives positive vibes during the day, I go home more happy, and more intent on helping out and doing things around the house and "serving her needs".
If all I get during the day is negative stuff, I'm more inclined to think, why bother, even if I do, she won't appreciate it.
Both partners IMHO need to work on supressing their internal struggles and project more externally. (It does make things happier). However, I am not adverse to listening and helping with her internal struggles, I think it needs to work both ways, and its vital that communication and understanding exists, otherwise each person comes across as a whiny mardy ass fart
I tend to not 'emote' at home with the wife. She'll just get pissed off that it's not about her. She's not interested. She wants me to listen to her complain and rally to her support and wish death upon her enemies. At the same time I have to be very sensitive to her wildly oscillating mood swings and how the time of day bears upon that. For instance it's never a good idea to talk to her after 7 or 8pm. Early morning is ok.
Another example was a woman buying a marriage book and highlighting the sections and then suggesting to her husband they read it together. He groans thinking, "I'm not good enough for her the way I am so she buys these stupid books to try to fix me." ..... She meant no ill will at all but he felt like the gesture made him a failure in her eyes when nothing could've been further from the truth.
I have bought "No More Mr Nice Guy", "Hold on to your Nuts" & others to enhance our sex life. My husband doesn’t get upset about it, he lets me read stuff to him, he admits where he has missed it, I admit my blunders. He understands we can all improve in some areas, he is open to learning, doesn’t take it in a bad way. I am sure THANKFUL for this, cause otherwise that would be like dealing with a BRICK WALL = the death of communication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM11363
As for the fear, insecurity and anxiety I feel for "ME", those I conceal and manage as best I can. I openly acknowledge a fear of heights. When she wanted to sky dive I never mentioned it. I managed it completely during the event. And afterwards I laughingly told her that I would happily go again (which I would as it was a huge rush), and that I actually wasn't afraid during the free fall. But that when the instructor started to corkscrew us down by controlling the parachute I absolutely was afraid. And then I shrugged - when you "know" it is a phobia you don't let it run your life.
Ok , so what if it wasn't a huge rush & you didn't want to do it again? Then you would have been in a pickle . So what you are saying here is - you pretty much faked it at the beginning, concealed ALL of your fears & feel all men should do this in ALL situations? Personally, as a woman, I see nothing wrong with a guy admitting a little fear (especially something like THAT!) -BUT here is what I would want to see after he was openly honest about it -- a "little engine that could" attitude , saying something like "I am scared sh**less but da gone it , I am GOING TO DO THIS!" FOR ME, this would be = or even superior from a man who HID a part of himself from me, because he feared I would think lowly of him. I simply would not want that.
A similar example - me & husband in our teens went to Cedar Point with friends, he doesn't like heights either, hates Roller Coasters (so also a fear). I LOVE them. He didn't care if I saw him as a Wus- he still didn’t' like the things & he wasn't going to hide this fact. I played it up a little, called him chicken a few times, but I got him on a Coaster! I told him "just do it once & I'll leave you alone".
Now if he would have HID that from me, acted like this BIG MAN who had no fear, guess what, I would have dragged his a** on coasters ALL day long, because that is what I like! So
he would have been dishonest with himself, TOO loving to me & basically miserable (and come on Mem, I know you are against that in any man!). Unlike you & the sky diving, he still didn't like them after he rode it. He did it FOR ME & I accept the fact "this is not his thing". But I don’t see it as a weakness. Just more a preference.
These situations are not the best of examples though. I know what you are trying to get at, and of coarse we want our men to show LESS FEAR than us women (most especially in Hard times) as they ARE our Protectors & take pride in being such, they need to ACT the part. They shouldn't come off as babies who still need coddling & reassurance. Us wives don't want to play Mom, we want someone to lean on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad
Giving up "his bad day" is a pleasure for your warrior!
It will never "take a toll", for it makes him feel "needed" without him having to act "needy".
I don't see that anyone has to give up their bad day at all. There are plenty of hours in the evening. Even if the wife had one & he listened, soothed, he is feeling good he was a comfort, no reason he can't then share his day, after all he will be more calm now. And if she is a good wife, she would be asking!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM11363
- Managing my personal fears and how I express or conceal them. Unmanaged fear is weakness.
- Managing anger (because raw anger tends to make me stupid and less effective, in a sense raw anger USUALLY shows a lack of self control and maturity. In a sense it is weakness. Controlled anger, well managed anger however is expressed as determination and focus. And that is real strength.
My husband manages anger VERY WELL. Seeing him loose it, so rare, more with the kids. He is very tame compared to most men here. IN all the years at his current job, ONE TIME he got really upset for someone riding him -being a jerk (this guy annoys everybody) & he hauled off gave him the finger & told him to turn it up - and those guys still laugh like he** about it (they loved telling me) because it was such a RARE occurrence to come from him. Much management there. As for me, hmmmmm total opposite. Yep that would be mine too but I do it more with the kids - than him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM11363
- Managing love. Yes I did say that. I already mentioned thermostat management. It is important. Directly over loving your partner is selfish. It isn't fair to them.
I personally struggle the most with the anger thing.
I don't understand the "SELFISH" part, not being FAIR to them ? I would see it more as Unselfish, kinda like those who are all into the "Unconditional love" at any cost- no matter how you are treated, more self -defeating - when you "over-love".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM11363
Deejo,
I think you also nailed the other piece of this which is too much selfless love "expressed". Even when all that love and support IS sincere and is not given based on the need to hear it back, it is a total lack of internal emotional dominance (self dominance), to express more love to someone than they are comfortable with.
Maybe this is what you mean, only giving what the other is comfortable with. Ok, in my marriage, we are comfortable with the Heights. You said something about a thermostat -hers at 70, yours at 80, but you keep yours a little lower at 70. Dangling the carrot just a little. I am not sure what these degrees means exactly but I am probably "comfortable" at near 100% -If I think I understand.
So again, I still PREFER the sensitive open (behind closed doors with me ) "vulnerable" type man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
when my partner gives positive vibes during the day, I go home more happy, and more intent on helping out and doing things around the house and "serving her needs".
If all I get during the day is negative stuff, I'm more inclined to think, why bother, even if I do, she won't appreciate it.
Both partners IMHO need to work on supressing their internal struggles and project more externally. (It does make things happier). However, I am not adverse to listening and helping with her internal struggles, I think it needs to work both ways, and its vital that communication and understanding exists, otherwise each person comes across as a whiny mardy ass fart
I am more "positive" than I used to be ( I am convinced I needed layed more often back then & didn't know it!) - I really mean this.
My husband could relate to this post at one time. He told me many times on his way home from work, he would be thinking about holding me, wanting to make love, he would get through the door & MY attitude , ranting about the kids, my family, something needed fixed, whatever it was on these days, dampered his mood, sucked all that loving feeling out of him. I recall a few times him saying "I should have just stayed at work". I sabatoged myself , brought him down with me & severed that connection that led to more touching & affection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenton
I remedied this by recognizing that 6pm - 9pm would be about my kids and husband whereas it used to be my most stressful time. ....It has worked miracles and is easy, distracting and enjoyable for me. My kids love it because I'm in a good mood and they can come to me with their crappy days, good days, accomplishments/failures and my husband loves it because he can unwind from his good or crappy day too.
Wonderful ! Something so small but So very constructive! Appears you & his solution. No more crushed macaroni in his pockets!
I have seen a bunch of posts lately about "sensitive" men. The basic flavor tends to be I "want" a sensitive man, not a cold, aloof man. That makes sense to me, or at least I think it does. I do want to understand this area better though, so chime in as to how far off I am.
I tend to see "sensitive" as having 2 completely separate dimensions.
1. External sensitivity: This is about your sensitivity towards others. When you have a high degree of this, you are aware of how other people are feeling, reacting. You tend to be more tactful and certainly more supportive/sympathetic when they are having a tough time.
2. Internal sensitivity: This defines how easily YOU are disturbed by external events. It is a measure of how defensive, upset, angry you get when someone criticizes you or life is going against you for one reason or other.
IME - a lot of 1 is essential to a happy LTR. 2 - for a man - seems like a train wreck.
What am I missing?
Well two things, both kind of minor. You seem to be saying that the opposite of sensitive is cold and aloof. I don't think so. The opposite of sensitive is jerk.
Also #2, internal sensitivity, could also be called self esteem. I think low self esteem and lack of confidence opens the door to MANY weird motivations that open the door to damage in *any* relationship whether it is male of female who is lacking in confidence. The more you need someone else to soothe your self esteem, and the more defensive you are to criticism, the more difficult it is to solve real problems with real problem solving skills.
Even if I greatly disliked it because I was afraidI would keep doing it until I got used to it, or she got bored. That would be true for any "phobia" I have. Not going to make it her problem unless it is something she wants to do daily.
As for "faking it" - this is my view. She knows I have a mild/moderate fear of heights. She has never seen me decline any activity because of it. She asked me to skydive and I said sure. I actually was not afraid until the "corkscrew bit". When I landed I told her that - and made fun of myself for it and we both laughed. I tend to prefer to tell her about stuff that scares me "after the fact". So she is inside my head, at my pace. I am not much into telling her I am scared before hand. I don't want the "mommy comfort thing". Perfectly fine with my partner and I having a laugh at my expense afterwards though.
Roller coasters sometimes give me motion sickness. I don't go on them anymore. Just don't like them.
It seems totally selfish to "emotionally crowd" your partner with too much love. You are doing what YOU want, not what THEY want. I grasp that this seems like a game. I don't think of it that way. If my W wants me to "express" more love she asks me to. And sometimes she does ask.
When asked a direct question by her about anything I don't lie. I may decline to answer. But I don't lie. But I am never going to say "each and every little thing that pops into my head". Seems kind of self indulgent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous
I have bought "No More Mr Nice Guy", "Hold on to your Nuts" & others to enhance our sex life. My husband doesn’t get upset about it, he lets me read stuff to him, he admits where he has missed it, I admit my blunders. He understands we can all improve in some areas, he is open to learning, doesn’t take it in a bad way. I am sure THANKFUL for this, cause otherwise that would be like dealing with a BRICK WALL = the death of communication.
Ok , so what if it wasn't a huge rush & you didn't want to do it again? Then you would have been in a pickle . So what you are saying here is - you pretty much faked it at the beginning, concealed ALL of your fears & feel all men should do this in ALL situations? Personally, as a woman, I see nothing wrong with a guy admitting a little fear (especially something like THAT!) -BUT here is what I would want to see after he was openly honest about it -- a "little engine that could" attitude , saying something like "I am scared sh**less but da gone it , I am GOING TO DO THIS!" FOR ME, this would be = or even superior from a man who HID a part of himself from me, because he feared I would think lowly of him. I simply would not want that.
A similar example - me & husband in our teens went to Cedar Point with friends, he doesn't like heights either, hates Roller Coasters (so also a fear). I LOVE them. He didn't care if I saw him as a Wus- he still didn’t' like the things & he wasn't going to hide this fact. I played it up a little, called him chicken a few times, but I got him on a Coaster! I told him "just do it once & I'll leave you alone".
Now if he would have HID that from me, acted like this BIG MAN who had no fear, guess what, I would have dragged his a** on coasters ALL day long, because that is what I like! So
he would have been dishonest with himself, TOO loving to me & basically miserable (and come on Mem, I know you are against that in any man!). Unlike you & the sky diving, he still didn't like them after he rode it. He did it FOR ME & I accept the fact "this is not his thing". But I don’t see it as a weakness. Just more a preference.
These situations are not the best of examples though. I know what you are trying to get at, and of coarse we want our men to show LESS FEAR than us women (most especially in Hard times) as they ARE our Protectors & take pride in being such, they need to ACT the part. They shouldn't come off as babies who still need coddling & reassurance. Us wives don't want to play Mom, we want someone to lean on.
I don't see that anyone has to give up their bad day at all. There are plenty of hours in the evening. Even if the wife had one & he listened, soothed, he is feeling good he was a comfort, no reason he can't then share his day, after all he will be more calm now. And if she is a good wife, she would be asking!
My husband manages anger VERY WELL. Seeing him loose it, so rare, more with the kids. He is very tame compared to most men here. IN all the years at his current job, ONE TIME he got really upset for someone riding him -being a jerk (this guy annoys everybody) & he hauled off gave him the finger & told him to turn it up - and those guys still laugh like he** about it (they loved telling me) because it was such a RARE occurrence to come from him. Much management there. As for me, hmmmmm total opposite. Yep that would be mine too but I do it more with the kids - than him.
I don't understand the "SELFISH" part, not being FAIR to them ? I would see it more as Unselfish, kinda like those who are all into the "Unconditional love" at any cost- no matter how you are treated, more self -defeating - when you "over-love".
Maybe this is what you mean, only giving what the other is comfortable with. Ok, in my marriage, we are comfortable with the Heights. You said something about a thermostat -hers at 70, yours at 80, but you keep yours a little lower at 70. Dangling the carrot just a little. I am not sure what these degrees means exactly but I am probably "comfortable" at near 100% -If I think I understand.
So again, I still PREFER the sensitive open (behind closed doors with me ) "vulnerable" type man.
I am more "positive" than I used to be ( I am convinced I needed layed more often back then & didn't know it!) - I really mean this.
My husband could relate to this post at one time. He told me many times on his way home from work, he would be thinking about holding me, wanting to make love, he would get through the door & MY attitude , ranting about the kids, my family, something needed fixed, whatever it was on these days, dampered his mood, sucked all that loving feeling out of him. I recall a few times him saying "I should have just stayed at work". I sabatoged myself , brought him down with me & severed that connection that led to more touching & affection.
Wonderful ! Something so small but So very constructive! Appears you & his solution. No more crushed macaroni in his pockets!
Interesting thread! I don't really have much constructive to add, but it has been informative. My SO and I both get super stressed and have lots of bad days--full-time school, each of us now has 2 part-time jobs, and we are paying all our own bills.
It's very, VERY easy to get into selfish mode, or even just zone-out mode when we get home. When we're successful at overcoming bad days, it's not because one of us nurtures the other one--it's because we both just say **** it, have a drink, go do something outside, play cards, or even freeload off of the samples at Costco. Maybe it's avoidant behavior, but it works well. It's kind of like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and saying, "Well that sucked. Let's go have fun!" We've kind of figured out that being coddled encourages sulkiness--we're both guilty of it! I don't know how it works for other people, but even if I'm really cranky, just getting outside and doing something will make me feel better--even if I'm convinced it won't at the time.
It seems totally selfish to "emotionally crowd" your partner with too much love. You are doing what YOU want, not what THEY want. I grasp that this seems like a game. I don't think of it that way.
I accually agree with what you are saying IF you are emotionally crowding your spouse -and especially if you are aware they are not comfortable with it. I think that is & always will be WISE advice for every marraige.
But it IS possible for some of us to enjoy being lavished on freely without restraint and also be very comforable with it. Me & mine feel this way. My husband loves the attention, I didn't always give him so much in our past -so he is REVELING in it now. Us being more so IN THIS WAY, has only enhanced our connection (sexually, emotionally & communcatively).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM11363
If my W wants me to "express" more love she asks me to. And sometimes she does ask.
See, for me, I would not like this "ASKING" part. I think that would "deflate" me more than "uplift" me. I don't want to ask for love, it should be freely expressed. If not, I may question it. I know my husband feels the same as I. There is something I find very beautiful about the man I married freely giving, expressing, being what he feels before me, sharing anything & everything at his whim. It is something I personally appreciate very much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM11363
When asked a direct question by her about anything I don't lie. I may decline to answer.
I also wouldn't like this. It would bother me as a wife. I have never declined to answer anything my husband has ever asked me nor has he ever declined to answer anything I have asked him. He is a true sport. If that makes us self indulgent somehow (probably me more so cause he is not as much of a talker) then I guess that is your judgement on MY types.
What I am learning from much of my reading here is further proving what I kinda already know strongly - I LOVE & very much appreciate the sensitive nice men and I married the perfect type of man for who I am. As clearly others would find me "too much" and not appreciate me.
Thinking about this a little more - I think what MEM would call "Self-indulgent" as far as being open, I would call "Transparency" -even Vulnerability with your spouse. I think of this video Trenton shared here Brene Brown: The power of vulnerability | Video on TED.com
I looked up Self-Indulgent - this kind of definition/behavior is related to doing things that come back to hurt you, indulging in addictions where you are striving for happiness but never acheiving it, falling on your face then looking for the next "high".
This would never near describe the type of communication styles we have with each other.
Now, If I carelessly indulged every negative emotion, whining, wallowing in all the ills of life, shared every critical thought & cared nothing of reining THESE in -to spare him (like MEM's original #2), this would reac pathetic havor on any relationship, it would be a roller coaster of doom & gloom & such people likely would need depression meds & their spouses would WANT to divorce them! These things are so not happening.
....But to openly share ALL of your joys, everything good that wells up inside of you, even if Mushy, if you feel like a little kid in a candy store- you want to share that - this is the way I am, I do not hide my enthusiasm -from him. He wouldnt want me too! To feel free to share your dreams, how much you love, how high, how deep & how wide, and being able to laugh at our weaknesses.
This is "transparency" to me, ALL GOOD. I would want my man to have a decent measure of this .
>>It seems totally selfish to "emotionally crowd" your partner with too much love. You are doing what YOU want, not what THEY want. I grasp that this seems like a game. I don't think of it that way. If my W wants me to "express" more love she asks me to. And sometimes she does ask.<<
Human need love, there is no such thing like over love. My love bank can hold a lot of love, it is deep! I think my husband's love bank is deep too, I can never fill it up! I can only keep on putting more love in it!
Women who are mature and who have religious background have high restriction for themselves, they have strong sense of responsibility, they have high moral standards! (This is for SA!)
Men can't spoil their women and let their women always have their own way, but you should always love her as much as you love yourself!
SA,
You are your H are in a great place. Being able to be completely free and open with your partner is a beautiful thing. You don't have to even think about that as you and your "H" are both comfortable with a very high thermostat setting.
My comment was that it is self indulgent to express more love to your partner "than they are comfortable with". I stand by that.
Overheating a "cooler" partner is simply a bad idea. It causes them to withdraw. It begins the downward spiral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous
Thinking about this a little more - I think what MEM would call "Self-indulgent" as far as being open, I would call "Transparency" -even Vulnerability with your spouse. I think of this video Trenton shared here Brene Brown: The power of vulnerability | Video on TED.com
I looked up Self-Indulgent - this kind of definition/behavior is related to doing things that come back to hurt you, indulging in addictions where you are striving for happiness but never acheiving it, falling on your face then looking for the next "high".
This would never near describe the type of communication styles we have with each other.
Now, If I carelessly indulged every negative emotion, whining, wallowing in all the ills of life, shared every critical thought & cared nothing of reining THESE in -to spare him (like MEM's original #2), this would reac pathetic havor on any relationship, it would be a roller coaster of doom & gloom & such people likely would need depression meds & their spouses would WANT to divorce them! These things are so not happening.
....But to openly share ALL of your joys, everything good that wells up inside of you, even if Mushy, if you feel like a little kid in a candy store- you want to share that - this is the way I am, I do not hide my enthusiasm -from him. He wouldnt want me too! To feel free to share your dreams, how much you love, how high, how deep & how wide, and being able to laugh at our weaknesses.
This is "transparency" to me, ALL GOOD. I would want my man to have a decent measure of this .
SA,
You are your H are in a great place. Being able to be completely free and open with your partner is a beautiful thing. You don't have to even think about that as you and your "H" are both comfortable with a very high thermostat setting.
My comment was that it is self indulgent to express more love to your partner "than they are comfortable with". I stand by that.
Overheating a "cooler" partner is simply a bad idea. It causes them to withdraw. It begins the downward spiral.
Mem - I appreciate this coming from you - as I was feeling a little trampled on. Then Conrad jumps in with the "hammer meets nail" comment. All I thought to myself was - I would like to kick both of you! But hey, we are all different & it's OK. Not many men would probably put up with me, I would break their thermostat. So I am with the right guy! His is set HIGH, mine is set HIGH, It's all gooooood.
I agreed EXACTLY with what you say here about the Thermostat in a previous post - probably why the "self indulgent" comment coming afterwards appeared directed at ME.
Pleasant to hear it was not intended that way, just my reading it as such.
Quote:
I accually agree with what you are saying IF you are emotionally crowding your spouse -and especially if you are aware they are not comfortable with it. I think that is & always will be WISE advice for every marraige.
But it IS possible for some of us to enjoy being lavished on freely without restraint and also be very comforable with it. Me & mine feel this way. My husband loves the attention, I didn't always give him so much in our past -so he is REVELING in it now. Us being more so IN THIS WAY, has only enhanced our connection (sexually, emotionally & communcatively).
SA,
Sorry I was ambiguous in the earlier post. It was not directed at you at all. It is directed at people with 'mismatched' thermostats. Clearly you don't have that situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous
Mem - I appreciate this coming from you - as I was feeling a little trampled on. Then Conrad jumps in with the "hammer meets nail" comment. All I thought to myself was - I would like to kick both of you! But hey, we are all different & it's OK. Not many men would probably put up with me, I would break their thermostat. So I am with the right guy! His is set HIGH, mine is set HIGH, It's all gooooood.
I agreed EXACTLY with what you say here about the Thermostat in a previous post - probably why the "self indulgent" comment coming afterwards appeared directed at ME.
Pleasant to hear it was not intended that way, just my reading it as such.
Re: Question for the Women 
I am more "positive" than I used to be ( I am convinced I needed layed more often back then & didn't know it!) - I really mean this. 
But hey, we are all different & it's OK. Not many men would probably put up with me, I would break their thermostat. So I am with the right guy! His is set HIGH, mine is set HIGH, It's all gooooood. 
