You can read the transcript. . .it will be quicker. . .but Phyllis Schlafly at 80 some years old is very articulate and well spoken.
I rather recommend listening to her to speak for the 17 minutes on how feminism has let women down.
I have to say, prior to hearing this podcast, I probably sat a little left of center. . .having been through a tulmultuous marriage and hearing this podcast, I would say she shifted me a little right of center on this subject.
That is very rare to have someone shift my political views on the merits of an argument alone.
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And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
You can read the transcript. . .it will be quicker. . .but Phyllis Schlafly at 80 some years old is very articulate and well spoken.
I rather recommend listening to her to speak for the 17 minutes on how feminism has let women down.
I have to say, prior to hearing this podcast, I probably sat a little left of center. . .having been through a tulmultuous marriage and hearing this podcast, I would say she shifted me a little right of center on this subject.
That is very rare to have someone shift my political views on the merits of an argument alone.
You posted this in this forum to garner a response from us working women. Fine.
Phyllis is as laughable as Ann Coulter is. Both say things for shock value and to keep themselves relevant. They are drains on society and their views are held by the marginal few. They incite just to incite. That is all.
I personally think a larger % of woman feel like she dose. It just takes them awhile to realize it.
I know a lot of women who went to colledge and then once they had babies they wanted to stay home and just be a mom. (their words not mine)
just think of the money they would have saved if they didn't go to school.Not that I am opposed to women going for a degree.
and of course there the how would I suport myself if something happens angle. which is good thinking. If your marriage fails, you need a fall back plan.
But if you didn't have a fall back plan people would try harder to make there marriages work.
I guess in the end its important to find a mate with similar ideas about such topics.
but thats easier said than done and ideas/opinions can change with time.
If women have no skills, and just live their life dependent on their husbands, they are really under their men's control.
If the man is nice, then this woman is lucky. If they man is not nice, then this woman is stuck with her bad marriage and abusive man.
We do have to admit that a lot of men are not that great, they take their wives for granted and just do things they like, they think little about their wives.
I am not a big fan of feminism, but I want women to have their husbands' respect and love.
People either go too far on this end or on that end, it is difficult for them to find the balance.
Balance is what we need, but balance is what we lack!
You posted this in this forum to garner a response from us working women. Fine.
Phyllis is as laughable as Ann Coulter is. Both say things for shock value and to keep themselves relevant. They are drains on society and their views are held by the marginal few. They incite just to incite. That is all.
so intelligent women who dont share your personal views are drains on our society?
If women have no skills, and just live their life dependent on their husbands, they are really under their men's control.
If the man is nice, then this woman is lucky.
This is ME. I have no College education. Just being a Mom. But the man is Golden, so it works. If something happens to him, I think I will have to scramble to go to school, get some skills in a hurry. Would be pretty fine to become a Relationship Coach or Therapist, I love this type of stuff.
This is ME. I have no College education. Just being a Mom. But the man is Golden, so it works. If something happens to him, I think I will have to scramble to go to school, get some skills in a hurry. Would be pretty fine to become a Relationship Coach or Therapist, I love this type of stuff.
I know YOU ARE ONE LUCKY WOMAN! But I think you have earned it!
Aren't you happy that your man is not one of those pure alphas!
I know YOU ARE ONE LUCKY WOMAN! But I think you have earned it!
Aren't you happy that your man is not one of those pure alphas!
Green Pearl, you are funny. I accually never wanted a college education, I sucked at Math so bad, I never would have gotten through anyway. English & Psychology is where I shined. I never had the desire for College, glad that didn't creep up on me in Mid life.
But so true what you say here
Quote:
If the man is not nice, then this woman is stuck with her bad marriage and abusive man.
... I had an old friend, she had one of these miserable controlling husbands. Amazingly SO nice to everyone else, but NASTY unbearable behind closed doors.
She was a simple SAHM, but she wanted OUT. She told me about her "plan" to get out from under him so she would not be destitude. She put herself through College, got a Nursing Degree, got herself that job & left his A**. Had he not been that kind of man, I doubt she would be a Nurse today. She found happiness with another.
I do not think women are any closer to being truly valued then they were 50 years ago, things have just shifted a little and women do have more opportunities but framed from a patriarchal viewpoint, so that women and femininity are still not valued as they should be.
Womens roles are not valued and untill what women largely have to offer is as valued as much as what men have to offer, then women will never be close to equal opportunity.
Green Pearl, you are funny. I accually never wanted a college education, I sucked at Math so bad, I never would have gotten through anyway. English & Psychology is where I shined. I never had the desire for College, glad that didn't creep up on me in Mid life.
But so true what you say here ... I had an old friend, she had one of these miserable controlling husbands. Amazingly SO nice to everyone else, but NASTY unbearable behind closed doors.
She was a simple SAHM, but she wanted OUT. She told me about her "plan" to get out from under him so she would not be destitude. She put herself through College, got a Nursing Degree, got herself that job & left his A**. Had he not been that kind of man, I doubt she would be a Nurse today. She found happiness with another.
SA,
My situation was different. I used to be sick a lot when I was a child, I couldn't do much field work, I never wanted to become a peasant woman, I never wanted to marry a peasant man. I had to get a degree so I could work in a city. Men who were not peasants wouldn't want to marry me if I was a peasant woman. At that time, China's policy made people from the countryside almost impossible to go to the cities unless they went to a college. Now the situation is very different.
There are many ways for people to achieve a skill, men can become carpenters, chefs, painters, vendors, etc etc, they don't need high education. Women can become hairdressers, beauticians, etc etc, they can also make a living. I am not against people who pursue high education, if they have the ability, ambition, and money, they can become scientists, doctors, lawyers, good for them.
But now I view all of us just having a different life, people with high education may not be happier than people who without much education. People who make a lot of money may not live an organized care free life. I think a lot of people don't pay much attention to one important education all of us should have, that's education about life. My parents never taught me how to live, I can't blame them because they don't know either. I had to stumble and make mistakes a lot during my early age.
Big business is cashing in with “Gender Neutrality”.
Young women no longer get cheaper car insurance than young men, it’s the “Gender Neutral Law” so young women have lost out even though they are proven to be very much less of a risk than young men.
By Sept 2012 all pensions must be Gender Neutral in spite of the age old fact that women outlive men. So men’s annuities will decrease in spite of the fact that they don’t live as long as women.
Why should *I* have to live as a less-than-equal because some women choose a different path in life?
Yesterday, I saw the best definition of culture that I have ever seen: the entirety of social processes that makes that which is artificial (ie, socially constructed) seem natural.
I will say it again--anything that is not shared 100% by all of a group cannot be "natural" or biological.
I wanted to stay home with kids--for a relatively short time. Then I wanted desperately to go back to work. I do not live my life for my kids, even though there is nothing more important to me than my children. I wil--and do--make sacrifices for my kids that their dad wouldn't make. But, I also feel separate from my kids--I have a life of my own, I do not need to be with them every moment, etc. I know there was a time when each was an infant that I felt differently. But as they grew older, that type of deep attachment faded--and I also realized they are separate from me, and they deserve to have their own lives, too.
I'm not making any case that my p.o.v. is correct--just that it is MY experience. For one group to insist that their way is "natural" flies in the face of my experience, and the experience of many women.
Feminism is, first and foremost, about choice, about getting people to understand that there is nothing "natural" about the world around us--we have socially constructed a world that tries to force people into certain roles regardless of who they are and what they want. Our social characteristics are not sex-specific--they, like almost everything about us--lie on a spectrum. A lot of men, too, would prefer a different life than the one they have been socialized to embrace. More are opting out of that life as the times change.
The feminist movement hasn't let women down. It isn't done yet, that's all. The movement has many faces, just as we are all individuals. Feminists I know, including myself, are very much into honoring womanhood, motherhood and all that is feminine. We also love and honor manhood, fatherhood and masculinity. What we are not into is pretending differences exist that don't...or exaggerating differences. Feminists know that women are different which is why they work so hard for women's reproductive health rights and to end violence against women.
Just focusing on the idea of women needing to stay in there own "sphere" and stay out of the public forum or workplace shows how absurd anti-feminism is.
Men die. Men sometimes abuse. Men fail at business or get fired/laid off/downsized. Men get injured and debilitated. Men can't be an accurate voice for women. Some women will never marry (nor desire to). Some women will never bear children (nor desire to). Some women will ache to gain a higher education, discover, control their own body.
Phyllis is all about villifying and generalizing feminists and families who use daycare or nannies. It was kind of a hoot, actually. Oooh, the evil feminists are gonna ruin the world! The world is worse off for feminism; ignore the fact that she can vote, wear pants, be a lawyer, own a home, etc. thanks to the feminist movement!
She uses scare tactics to convince women and men that women are better off subordinate to men. Why? because women have a womb. She wants to force gender roles that simply don't work for MANY, MANY people. She wants to convince us that 1950s gender roles are natural...as if they have been the roles of all men and women in all the world and all generations.
She made a lot of strawmen to knock down. Feminists do not hate men, in fact some feminists are men. Feminists do not hate SAHMs, in fact some feminists are SAHMs. Feminists do not wish every woman to be forced in the workforce. Feminists don't wish for women to not be successful (or however she worded that, I'd never heard that one before). Feminist believe that women should be free to make their own choices.
If you go to the website for the National Organization for Women they have an entire page dedicated to mothers and care providers.
I love how she mentions the draft as a reason not to support equal rights. How do the men feel that this anti-feminist sees the lives of men as less valuable than the lives of women?
That is one big problem I see with patriarchy and anti-feminism is that it places womenhood/motherhood on a pedestal to be "honored" so that the subordination can continue on without protest.
Phyllis also believes that men are only relevant to the family if they are the breadwinner. She makes this comment towards the end of the interview. I certainly believe that a man, a father, is relevant FAR beyond his earning power. It saddens me to hear that people think in this way. If a woman stays with a man *only* because he brings money into the house that is very sad and screwed up. How is that not as degrading as prostitution? That is the point of feminism! To raise women up so that they are not in a bad situation where they must be with a man soley for the money he brings to the house.
Does a man really want his wife to only be with him for his paycheck?
If these anti-feminists really cared about motherhood and women then they would be working hard to make sure that women are not economically devastated by giving birth and "staying in the kitchen" raising children. If they cared so much about the differences that make a woman a woman they would be putting more funding into the area of women's reproductive health....but I don't see them doing that.
The fact is, most Americans say they believe women and men should have equal rights, equal pay, etc. It's time to make it happen.
I didn't post it here assuming women are working here. . .I knew SA (I am not sure about Greenpearl) are SAHM's and I know there are working women here (which really has nothing to do with being feminist).
Well, I give my input more personally on this.
I have a young patient I have cared for since about age 8 with scoliosis. Very close to the family. Knowing I have been in healthcare since 1989 (phlebotomist, CT tech, chiropractor), they value my advice and opinion as neither of them are college educated and she is the first in the family.
She had aspirations of being a pediatric neurosurgeon. Grades not withstanding, she also had aspirations of being a mother and having a family.
I discouraged her from this pursuit which would demand so much of her and take away from her ability to be a mother and redirected her to other careers that would allow her to have a family - really encouraged nursing (nurse practicioner, midwife, vanilla nurse). In the end, this was all moot as she decided healthcare wasn't for her after all.
I just wanted to get my "bit" in before any raging feminist got to her and told her, "Oh yeah, you can have it all. . .it's really easy and you can handle it and any man who isn't patient with you and your aspirations, well, he's not worth having."
But then again, I'm politically incorrect and known for it.
I think it's silly that feminism puts these pressures on young women. My gawd, 1 in 3 women are going to live to 100 freakin' years old. They bear children optimally, what, for 15 years? (say age 20-35) You are telling me you can't do law school, medical school, accounting school after the kids are raised? Or are at least 8 or 10 years old? Gotta be doing it when the other "boys" in high school are doing it? Why? Why is that wise?
Hell, a vanilla college education is about $125,000 now. . .for what? So little Brittany can stay home and nurse?
So tell me, I don't have any girls. . .I have 3 boys. . .but if I did have a girl (always wanted one), explain to me as a parent why I should have to morally shell out that kind of money? Hell, I know I am sounding like my old school grandmother who paid for her son to go to college but mom didn't get to go (mom would have said she didn't have the grades either) but I don't know, I'd like to hear from the raging feminists (since apparently Phyllis has gotten you to rage again) why my old school grandmother was wrong in the managing of her finances through a Great Depression and so forth.
In fact, if you could be the one who could tell her she was wrong, I'd appreciate it
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And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
Last edited by Scannerguard; 04-05-2011 at 05:48 PM.
"What that amendment would do is to make all laws sex-neutral. Well, the typical, classic law that is not sex-neutral is the draft registration law."
I confess to stopping reading right here. That ALL laws are not going to be rewritten on the spot to be gender neutral, let's make no forward progress at all? Um yah not so much....
Oh but wait then she is complaining
"And the first thing is they'll have to sign up for the draft like their brothers. Now, that was an unsaleable proposition. "
Why SHOULDN'T they? (My very negative opinion on the draft notwithstanding...) Why should there be a privilege that we poor, weak, pathetic women can't also serve our country?
Awesome podcast on feminism 
If something happens to him, I think I will have to scramble to go to school, get some skills in a hurry. Would be pretty fine to become a Relationship Coach or Therapist, I love this type of stuff.
