She is at best, disinterested and utterly unengaged. At worst, she has an aversion to the idea of sex ... with you. May be the same with anyone else too, but at the moment the relationship consists of you and she.
There needs to be at minimum, a basic emotional connection for seduction. Seduction is about eliciting feelings in your target/partner. As Trenton mentioned, almost any strong emotional response that you can trigger, can establish a connection that you can work from there.
Your issue? She sees you coming a mile away. The dynamic you currently have is that the moment she recognizes that the course of conversation or interaction is moving into sexual territory, she closes up like Fort Knox. I'm familiar with this, because it's what my ex used to do. I called it a negative feedback loop. Ours got so bad that ANY pretext of affection on my part, she viewed as sexually overt ... and responded very poorly to.That my friend ... is about as f*cked up as a relationship can get.
I agree with the suggestion to back off. Way, way off. Trying to 'seduce' your wife right now, simply isn't in the cards. She isn't open to it, and all because she is over-focused on the fact that YOU are.
She is at best, disinterested and utterly unengaged. At worst, she has an aversion to the idea of sex ... with you. May be the same with anyone else too, but at the moment the relationship consists of you and she.
<cut>I agree with the suggestion to back off. Way, way off.
I don't understand this. I really don't.
If she's disinterested and / or unengaged, why will backing off MAKE her interested? If I'm not interested in something, someone NOT talking to me about doesn't make me want to do it. In that case, whatever it is simply drops off my radar totally.
If she has an aversion to sex, how will ignoring it (backing off) remove / deal with the aversion? By backing off, do you not simply re-inforce her position, by basically saying you accept the status quo, and that if she's OK with it so are you?
If she's disinterested and / or unengaged, why will backing off MAKE her interested? If I'm not interested in something, someone NOT talking to me about doesn't make me want to do it. In that case, whatever it is simply drops off my radar totally.
If she has an aversion to sex, how will ignoring it (backing off) remove / deal with the aversion? By backing off, do you not simply re-inforce her position, by basically saying you accept the status quo, and that if she's OK with it so are you?
Negative.
You back off and reset the dynamic. If she has issues surrounding sex, and a belief that ANY form of intimacy will lead to him desiring sex, then intimacy becomes a trigger of avoidance. If a wife is sexually shut down, and a husband consistently brings it up for discussion, flirtation, seduction, complaining ... it becomes the male equivalent of nagging. It doesn't work.
By backing off and focusing on HER issues, it puts the subject in a different focus. Instead of trying to get her to have sex, stay focused on the reasons she DOESN'T want to have sex, and make her take responsibility for them in the context of maintaining the relationship. She needs to be honest with herself, and her husband. If her attitude is 'this is who I am, take it or leave it.' Hubby should make it clear that he will leave it.
My ex tried 'fake it til you make it' with me for about a month in the dying days of our marriage. In our case? It made things worse. She said as much in counseling. It was pity sex. It actually strengthened her aversion, and left me disillusioned and very, very, angry.
You back off and reset the dynamic. If she has issues surrounding sex, and a belief that ANY form of intimacy will lead to him desiring sex, then intimacy becomes a trigger of avoidance. If a wife is sexually shut down, and a husband consistently brings it up for discussion, flirtation, seduction, complaining ... it becomes the male equivalent of nagging. It doesn't work.
By backing off and focusing on HER issues, it puts the subject in a different focus. Instead of trying to get her to have sex, stay focused on the reasons she DOESN'T want to have sex, and make her take responsibility for them in the context of maintaining the relationship. She needs to be honest with herself, and her husband. If her attitude is 'this is who I am, take it or leave it.' Hubby should make it clear that he will leave it.
My ex tried 'fake it til you make it' with me for about a month in the dying days of our marriage. In our case? It made things worse. She said as much in counseling. It was pity sex. It actually strengthened her aversion, and left me disillusioned and very, very, angry.
agreed, except i would label it begging not nagging. i will not beg for anything from anyone
I think we've had this discussion before and I have even gone through periods of trying this. However, what is the focus on HER issue if she claims she doesn't even know what the issue is???
I think I need to reiterate. She isn't necessarily sex averse it just never seems to even cross her radar. So in some respect I have to agree with Sawney, I think just ignoring it will likely mean it will just never cross her radar.
No we are not that bad off financially we just spend a LOT on our childrens gymnastics. And the rest of your points are part of my problem. She tells me that all of her needs are met. If she tells me this and I can't see anything blatant that is missing, how the heck do I know what to concentrate on if she is really missing something???
MWIL,
Oh if only she were that "easy"...
I am "that easy" and unfortunately my own husband doesn't take advantage of that anymore...what a shame for the both of us.
Well at least she was using a vibrator. My wife doesn't even own one and doesn't masterbate (at least to my knowledge and has told me that she doesn't).
I am not quick to believe her but I have to have some element of trust there or what would be the point?
In fact she made some off-hand comment a week or two ago. Something to the affect of: "Well I guess I would be a bad masterbater..". After that, I told her she should masterbate and she said she didn't see any reason to.
Nowhere did I state to ignore what's going on. What I'm saying is to change how you address it.
Bottom line ... are you prepared to accept your marriage as it is?
I'm presuming you aren't. You have indicated that you have done all of the legwork in trying to discover what turns her on and how she feels about sex. And according to her the answers are 'Nothing and indifferent.' Not much question that your spouse has a low sex drive. I apologize for not being fully familiar with your history, was that always the case?
If you believe she is already doing the best she can in trying to step up and address your needs, then at some point in time you will need to decide if her effort is acceptable to you.
What I'm suggesting, is that if she values the marriage, she should be willing to explore the issue, with an MD or a therapist ... so at the very least, even if she isn't 'feeling it' she recognizes that you do, and it's important to you.
I don't know if I can accept it as it is. I should be able to but I don't seem to be able to.
No it was not always the case. In fact when we were first together I was a little lower drive than her because I was having some rough times after my divorce. It has gotten progressively worse over the years after the birth of the kids.
She has talked to the MD about it some. They did some hormone checks but I don't know if it was the "right" checks. She doesn't want to see a therapist. She seems to have this inane fear of being told that something is "wrong" with her. She has the same fear with medical stuff.
She does try and she does know it is important to me. However, maybe I am too much the other way, I don't know. To your point, I am sure my pushing/nagging/begging/whatever you want to call it probably doesn't help. Though I have gone through some long periods trying not to grope/touch/initiate/whatever but that doesn't change anything.
Sometimes I wonder if it is me and I am some kind of sex addict or something. Though I don't think it's that level as I don't go get it elsewhere, I watch porn some but rarely masterbate to it, etc, etc.
Re: What is seduction to you? 
I can easily make a list within minutes of 100 things that turn me on. To answer nothing is rather sad.
