Those two examples you list above are discouraging and unhealthy. If you hadn't known she was having an affair previously, those are concrete evidence she is not invested in growing as a couple and is likely examining ways to get away with an affair.
You're showing incredible restraint in not fully engaging her to "make" her see things from your perspective. I'd bore her to death and create a further wedge with endless filibustering about how I'm right and she's wrong and can she not see it now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syrum
Wow UTR
It seems like she hasn't learned much at all.
A sign might just be appropriate.
MARRIED poor impulse control and lacks empathy
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnera
Are you in MC?
We're not in MC. I don't want to go there yet. It might be a waste of time for both of us. She's obviously sticking to her guns, and I'll go for the ride.
FWIW.... We've been doing great otherwise. The "hot spot" is anything pertaining to her cell phone, and co-workers. She wants 100% freedom when it comes to texting WHO she wants, WHEN she wants, and regardless of gender. She feels I should not say anything, and she's NOT doing anything wrong. If as much as mention texting, co-workers, or marital commitment, she goes nasty on me.
It's OK, I know her, and I've learned that that's her way of backing me off.
What I've also learned is absence makes her heart grow very fond.
A couple weeks ago, she passed a comment about how I need to "find another hobby", besides what she's doing.
I simply said "OK".
I've since joined the gym, spend more time alone with my children, and since it's summer, I'm spending some wonderful time bike riding along the shoreline. So, I'm happy.
However, when I'm gone, I get the "hi, what are you doing?" calls. I play along, and it always ends with "I Love you" from HER.
She's playing, I;m going along. I'm no longer "afraid" to lose her. I'll deal with her, and watch her calculated moves, and learn from them.
Perseverance is the key here. She no longer has me cornered, and she's attacking in any way possible. Sooner or later she's either give up, we go our own way.
I'm unsure what it is you're hoping/expecting to get out of this.
That's a good question. I'm also at a point where I don't know what I'm expecting either. It's become such old news.
I'm beginning to feel as if we're both just "here" to buy our time, and let our feeling fall by the wayside.
As two people that have been together over 15 years, each day seems to pull us farther and farther apart. The issues are no longer issues for me, and whether or not she wants to be with me, is now irrelevant.
In my own honest assessment, I see us just floundering for a while, then walking away peacefully, and with a minimal amount of pain.
Turnera, If there was ANY way for us to save our marriage, I feel that it's going to be determined in the next few weeks. She's leaving her job this week. Her job has been the source of her EA, and her emotional ties away from me. She always seemed to come home from work with a sense of resentment, and anger. I sensed it, and saw it in her behavior.
Last night we had a sit down talk, and discussed her new job and she seemed to look forward to a fresh start. She seemed eager to get back into a routine, and was also looking forward to working with a couple women.
What am I expecting?????
Well, for one, I'd like to see how she responds to time away from the initial source of our problem.
She's n longer working with single kids, 10 years her junior. She's working with married women her age, and they both have children in our schools. I'd like to see if she reverts back to her old self.
Something very strange happened to my wife with her job, and I'll never know the whole truth. All I know, is that she becomes a monster if we discuss it.
I'm not ready to move on, and neither is she. The situation is not critical. There is no fighting, and my kids are not being exposed to anything between us. This has come down to me and her, either desiring each other as a mate, or not.
If we continue on the same path we're on, we'll simply drift apart. ... Without any further problems.
I'm OK with that, and I believe she is too.
She becomes a monster because she is ashamed of herself. She KNOWS how badly she screwed up. She doesn't trust you not to crucify her. Right now, YOU are the enemy who makes her feel bad. Every time she is around you, she expects you to shame her further. Prove her wrong. Leave it behind, BUT insist on a married lifestyle. If she starts being the kind of wife who goes out drinking once or twice a week, separate. Show her that you respect yourself too much to allow that in your marriage. But, if she's willing to put that 'fling' behind her, and return to her regular self, run with it. You got a reprieve.
That said, I would strongly urge you to keep pushing for MC. You two have 2 decades of resentment, on both sides, to deal with, and you can't ever reclaim your love and happiness until it's resolved. And you two frankly aren't equipped to solve it on your own.
The closest you two could come would be to initiate a 'meeting' once a week, say on Sunday night after kids are in bed, where you spend one hour a week being UTTERLY honest with each other and PROMISE to let the other speak and not rush in to defend yourself. This is about being HEARD, something most couples lose along the way, but is SO vital. Use a talking stick, if you have to. But start talking! The benefit of meeting night is that you promise to leave any relationship discussion alone for the rest of the week, because you know you'll have Sunday night to hash it out. It makes the rest of the week easier to enjoy each other and not be about 'winning.'
She becomes a monster because she is ashamed of herself. She KNOWS how badly she screwed up. She doesn't trust you not to crucify her. Right now, YOU are the enemy who makes her feel bad. Every time she is around you, she expects you to shame her further.
That paragraph right there, succinctly and explicitly outlines the primary reason why my marriage became unrecoverable.
And importantly, the emotions are hers. You aren't creating any of those negative feelings at this point, she is.
I had no interest in 'fixing' her. Something she needed to do for herself. But it became so dysfunctional that ANY disagreement or recommendation on my part was seen as a sleight.
Be upbeat. Be confident. Be the man any woman would be attracted to ... be the guy your wife would be lucky to have. Not the guy that panders to his wife. I certainly don't think you are the latter.
She becomes a monster because she is ashamed of herself. She KNOWS how badly she screwed up. She doesn't trust you not to crucify her. Right now, YOU are the enemy who makes her feel bad. Every time she is around you, she expects you to shame her further. Prove her wrong. Leave it behind, BUT insist on a married lifestyle. If she starts being the kind of wife who goes out drinking once or twice a week, separate. Show her that you respect yourself too much to allow that in your marriage. But, if she's willing to put that 'fling' behind her, and return to her regular self, run with it. You got a reprieve.
That said, I would strongly urge you to keep pushing for MC. You two have 2 decades of resentment, on both sides, to deal with, and you can't ever reclaim your love and happiness until it's resolved. And you two frankly aren't equipped to solve it on your own.
The closest you two could come would be to initiate a 'meeting' once a week, say on Sunday night after kids are in bed, where you spend one hour a week being UTTERLY honest with each other and PROMISE to let the other speak and not rush in to defend yourself. This is about being HEARD, something most couples lose along the way, but is SO vital. Use a talking stick, if you have to. But start talking! The benefit of meeting night is that you promise to leave any relationship discussion alone for the rest of the week, because you know you'll have Sunday night to hash it out. It makes the rest of the week easier to enjoy each other and not be about 'winning.'
Turnera, you're right. I never saw it that way, until now. This whole process is a learning process, not just how to deal with the issue itself, but now I see that there's residual behavior that needs to be dealt with.
I feel that I'm doing a good job, in learning her hot spots. I won't harp, nor will I bring up the job, EA, or anything pertaining to what happened anymore. I need to let her put it behind her, as much as I need to.
I want to see how she reacts to her new job away from the mess.
And YES, I will push for MC.... As soon as I feel that she's off the defensive. I'm sure she feels that a MC session will do nothing more than crucify her, and that's exactly what she's trying to avoid.
Also.....FWIW... My wife has NOT been out with her friends, co-workers, or any form of social drinking since this started. She hsn't even mentioned it.
The only entertainment with her girlfriends has been "card night" at her friend's house, and a couple shopping, and lunch dates. The whole co-worker scene is over and done with. The only thorn in MY side, is this one dorky guy from her job, that gets a big lift every time my wife talks to him. I'll let that play itself out.
That paragraph right there, succinctly and explicitly outlines the primary reason why my marriage became unrecoverable.
And importantly, the emotions are hers. You aren't creating any of those negative feelings at this point, she is.
I had no interest in 'fixing' her. Something she needed to do for herself. But it became so dysfunctional that ANY disagreement or recommendation on my part was seen as a sleight.
Be upbeat. Be confident. Be the man any woman would be attracted to ... be the guy your wife would be lucky to have. Not the guy that panders to his wife. I certainly don't think you are the latter.
Yep, I can see why your marriage failed. Right now, it could be very easy for either one of us to walk away.
That's why I've decided to take my time, and be the stronger one here. My wife is 15 years younger, and there's always a chance that she's simply going through something. In my book, words, are always forgivable. The EA is forgivable, a PA would not have been. I'm allowing for that. She's obviously feeling emotionally uptight, and she may not be "fixable". I have no intention of attempting to fix her. However, I will give it ample time for the situation to correct itself. If after she starts her new job, things don't change, then it would be a time to evaluate our marriage for face value, and go from there.
And yes, I am upbeat, and confident. I feel good. I've gotten a nice summer tan. I'm working out at the gym, and I'm riding my bike. My children are having a great summer, and I honestly feel that the person I am NOW, could easily make a woman very happy. I've been reborn, and have recovered the lost soul, that was ripped away from me, when this EA thing started.
Tell you something funny.... A couple days ago, we bumped into a female co-worker of HERS. My wife introduced me to her. I said hello, we all spoke for a few minutes, and we moved on. A few minutes later, my wife says to me: "she practically undressed you, right in front of me". I laughed, and said.... I guess it's part of the job requirement at that place LOL. I couldn't help myself. I just had to. LOL
And YES, I will push for MC.... As soon as I feel that she's off the defensive. I'm sure she feels that a MC session will do nothing more than crucify her, and that's exactly what she's trying to avoid.
Why don't you just start practicing your communication skills and TELL her exactly this?
I'll tell you why. You're afraid of her. Afraid of her leaving. You can't have a marriage based on that. If she would leave you over such a conversation, then she has more problems than you'll ever fix in your marriage.
Why don't you just start practicing your communication skills and TELL her exactly this?
I'll tell you why. You're afraid of her. Afraid of her leaving. You can't have a marriage based on that. If she would leave you over such a conversation, then she has more problems than you'll ever fix in your marriage.
No, not true. I'm not afraid of her. A MC won't be the deciding factor in her leaving or not. I've seen her response to MC already, and I don't want to deal with it.
I'm not forcing her to do anything. She gets defensive, and if I drag her reluctantly, we'll wind up fighting. I don't want to fight, I'm enjoying life right now.... just the way it is.
I refuse to engage!!!!
Did you read your own reply? YOU said that she's ashamed of herself. I agree.
What better way to shove something down her throat, than to throw her in front of an MC right now.
I'd rather leave it alone, and let the chips fall as they may.
And, btw, being 'sure she feels' is a great way to ruin your marriage, too. Stop deciding what or how she feels. FIND OUT by asking her.
Duh, she's made it very clear how she feels.
Bringing up the EA, makes her a monster. Maybe I shouldn't have said "I'm sure she feels", maybe I should have said " she becomes a monster" when she discusses the EA.
Turnera, please understand something...... I've been dealing with this since February. It's gotten stale, and I've healed 100%. The least amount of confrontation, the better off I am.
I get it. I really do. You want your old life back. But this is a band aid. Over a scab. I know how these go. You're gonna wait 6 months for her to cool off, so you can approach her without her blowing up. But in 6 months, she will be able to make YOU into the monster because you.just.won't.give.it.up.
And then you will HAVE to give up hope of any sort of MC because it will forever be the signal of YOU being an a$$hole. And you'll spend the rest of your life biting your tongue because she now gets to call you the bad guy; totally shifted onto you and NOTHING got resolved.
I get it. I really do. You want your old life back. But this is a band aid. Over a scab. I know how these go. You're gonna wait 6 months for her to cool off, so you can approach her without her blowing up. But in 6 months, she will be able to make YOU into the monster because you.just.won't.give.it.up.
And then you will HAVE to give up hope of any sort of MC because it will forever be the signal of YOU being an a$$hole. And you'll spend the rest of your life biting your tongue because she now gets to call you the bad guy; totally shifted onto you and NOTHING got resolved.
I wish you luck.
LOL.... Wrong!!!
I give 6 months for the sake of 15 years. Either the issue goes behind us, or it doesn't. If it goes behind us, we go day by day, as most married people do. If it's still an issue, no harm done. we move on.
I'm PAST the a$$hole stage, and ready to move on, if that's what has to happen. She can't make an A$$hole out of me, if I volunteer to give a few months of my life into a cooling off period.
And what makes you think that SHE'S the only one cooling off? Maybe I"M the one that has to accept having HER, after what SHE did???
Love is a two way street. Somewhere, we have to meet in the middle, or we keep going opposite directions.
I have the patience to ride this out. I stopped chasing her a while ago.
Trust me on this one. She's no longer playing me. And if she does, I'm aware of it, and letting her blow her own smoke.
I closed my heart to her pain, and opened my mind. I've decided to be smarter than her at the game.
Not too hard.
FWIW..... I'm kinda surprised at your reply. You sounded more like a scorned, angry person, than a sensible, patient adult, that I would have expected to have learned from the experiences around here.
Not EVERYTHING is a script.
No. I'm not scorned, nor angry. My job, IMO, is to remind people that everyone benefits when people stand up for their rights. I see way too many people on here just give in to keep the peace, at the expense of a LOT of things. And I've been around long enough to know that people who say things are cool now, we've worked it out but we're not going to address it...show up months or years later, saying we should have listened.
Maybe you can get past that. Maybe you learned enough in your time here to avoid it, to get better responses from her and you, to not become adversaries. I hope so.
I rarely tell people to separate or divorce. I don't believe in it, if kids are involved. People loved each other at one point, they can again. However, just deciding not to talk about something because the offender goes into protect/attack mode to shut the other one up rarely results in a happy marriage.
But like you said, we have to trust you, that you've learned enough not to let it slide. That you're not being played. So, like I said, I wish you luck.
Re: Interpret this ladies.... 
