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post #61 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 08:43 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Curious to get thoughts on this attire:
Lovely and professional.

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post #62 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 10:37 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Oh no. He wasn't ever admitting this except that multiple women came forward. By that time, he had no choice to admit. Class had nothing to do with this.
Agreed, "class" was the wrong word.

But what I was referring to was when they interviewed him about the charges, he said straight up that his behaviour was inapprooriate and he would adjust it accordingly.

Of course it's possible that he was just saying what his press agent told him to preserve his image. But at least he didn't blame the women, their dress or their behaviour.
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post #63 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 07:56 AM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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It's not sad, it's predictable and, therefore, preventable. "Managing" is having the brains to dress appropriately for a business environment.

Not managing, is rubbing yourself down with raw meat before stepping into the tiger's cage. The fool would be lucky to come away with only a lick or two.
Yes, agreed. Very predictable. I have been predicting it since I was 9 years old. And even as a girl, I learned that it was my job to take responsibility for horny dudes" sexuality because they would not do it themselves. Indeed, they would be celebrated, And I was "rubbing myself down with raw meat"

And yes, absolutely, you don't need to tell me about managing . I have honed the craft to an art form and can now emasculate any man at 20 paces. Not that I need to anymore, but the talent is still there.

The problem is that there is a price. Spending so many years "managing" means that I never actually got the opportunity to feel sexual or sexually desirable in my own right. I had to make sure I wasn't giving anyone the wrong idea, leading them on, acting inappropriately.

The moral of the story as far as I'm concerned is: Be careful what you wish for.
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post #64 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 10:34 AM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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But at least he didn't blame the women, their dress or their behavior.
That just means he isn't stupid.
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post #65 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 04:10 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Agreed, "class" was the wrong word.

But what I was referring to was when they interviewed him about the charges, he said straight up that his behaviour was inappropriate and he would adjust it accordingly.

Of course it's possible that he was just saying what his press agent told him to preserve his image. But at least he didn't blame the women, their dress or their behaviour.
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That just means he isn't stupid.
Exactly^.

So I only know what happened indirectly, but my understanding is his behaviour had been going on for quite some time, unapologetically, until he was called on it. It almost cost the whistleblower her job but fortunately for her other victims of his behaviour came forward.

So, yes, this was definitely damage control for his image, and that of the organization. I'm sure he was sorry, after the fact, at least as much for getting caught out as for what he did. The point is, this was a guy who didn't change with the times, kept his sexist attitudes and, worse, acted out on them. What might have been 'acceptable' (or at least tolerated) 20 years ago, simply isn't today.

As I said already, when in doubt, stay professional and classy. This goes for women and men. You'll get it right almost every time.
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post #66 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 04:17 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Yes, agreed. Very predictable. I have been predicting it since I was 9 years old. And even as a girl, I learned that it was my job to take responsibility for horny dudes" sexuality because they would not do it themselves. Indeed, they would be celebrated, And I was "rubbing myself down with raw meat"

And yes, absolutely, you don't need to tell me about managing . I have honed the craft to an art form and can now emasculate any man at 20 paces. Not that I need to anymore, but the talent is still there.

The problem is that there is a price. Spending so many years "managing" means that I never actually got the opportunity to feel sexual or sexually desirable in my own right. I had to make sure I wasn't giving anyone the wrong idea, leading them on, acting inappropriately.

The moral of the story as far as I'm concerned is: Be careful what you wish for.
Just so you know, I was responding to your comment for the benefit of the OP. You are clearly working through some issues to make reference to an experience you had as a child. Sorry you find this a distressing topic. I'm not trying to teach you anything, personally. I'd like to keep this discussion of benefit to the OP. But if you would like to discuss further, perhaps you should start your own thread? I'd be happy to contribute my own POV on the topic as a professional woman.
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post #67 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 04:36 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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And the "touching" and revealing clothing doesn't help.

She shouldn't have to alter her dress, but she should stop with the touching.
The bolded is my only issue. There is no need for that in the workplace, plain and simple. This isn't a college party or going clubbing, this is your place of employment. I don't know how she is dressing, so as long as she is dressing according to her company's dress code I have no issue with. I am sure you could go a step further and say someone should keep their hands off anyone who isn't their SO or family (the latter may be an issue if you live in the South )
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post #68 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 07:50 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Just so you know, I was responding to your comment for the benefit of the OP.
My apologies: I thought I had made the relevance of my point to the OP amply clear.

But since I didn't, please allow me to clarify.

OP before taking the advice on this thread and blaming your wife for rubbing herself with raw meat, please recognize that in fact she may be quite reasonably professional and is not actually asking to be sexually harassed in her workplace.
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post #69 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 07:54 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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The point is, this was a guy who didn't change with the times, kept his sexist attitudes and, worse, acted out on them. What might have been 'acceptable' (or at least tolerated) 20 years ago, simply isn't today.

As I said already, when in doubt, stay professional and classy. This goes for women and men. You'll get it right almost every time.

Yes, agreed. There are lots of guys out there who are acting entirely inappropriately even though they really ought to know better. And they are doing it all on their own. Women *arent* asking for it.

So why do you keep implying that it is somehow because the women aren't classy and professional enough?
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post #70 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 08:59 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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So why do you keep implying that it is somehow because the women aren't classy and professional enough?
I'm not. You are reading into my posts based on your own issues. The point is that, if one is careful to ensure professional conduct, it makes incidents like our friend M. Aubut much harder to defend with any "she was asking for it" argument.

In the OPs case, if she ever did log a complaint, she could run into problems given her touchy-feely behaviour that other people may have witnessed.

In any case, I would appreciate you cease dialog with me on this. Agree to disagree or whatever your issue is. I encourage you to start your own thread if this topic is stimulating your issues and you wish to discuss further. I'm not going to respond to you any further in this thread, but I wish you well.

PS - Here was my original post:

Quote:
As I said already, when in doubt, stay professional and classy. This goes for women and men.



Last edited by sapientia; 03-15-2016 at 09:05 PM.
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post #71 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 08:34 AM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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In the OPs case, if she ever did log a complaint, she could run into problems given her touchy-feely behaviour that other people may have witnessed.
Spot on
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post #72 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

thanks for all of your feedback. I find it interesting that so many people are making assumptions about my wife's behavior to essentially be "asking for it". I should reiterate that my wife's dress is not as suggestive as some have surmised.

I think this thread underscores the way in which men and women seem to have a lack of understanding of the other's vantage point. I think there are plenty of men that clearly missread signals and/or read them optimistically as many are in constant pursuit of the next piece of a$$. If for example my wife happens to touch a coworker in a non-sexual way, does he have the right or is it prudent to assume that she wants to Fu#$? I know allot of guys that would relentlessly pursue a women that has been fairly direct about her feelings.

Further, the notion that HR will solve all these problems is not that correct. I men this could create a real problem for my wife at her company. She could be regarded as a bi#%h or uptight.

I recently had a women who I had just met at my kids school function who hugged me goodbye. Not just a casual hug but, one where I could feel her boobs smushed against my chest. I mean if I later propositioned her would that be cool? That I would assume that she is an adulterer who wants to bone me?
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post #73 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 02:07 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

Well, I think first off, there is no room for touching in a work place (outside of a hand shake). There is way too much risk / liability that could be involved (whether it is harmless or not). If I see employees being "touchy" I would pull them aside and discuss this behavior as it is just one big HR nightmare waiting to happen. I prefer the "Keep your hands to yourself" policy at work, but that is just me. I don't see what is so difficult about this.

My other point, you mention your W has come home visibly upset. If that is the case I see two options. 1) She tries to make some changes to avoid this type of attention (maybe clothes, maybe with how she interacts, etc...) or 2) She just accepts it for what it is. This does not mean in any way justifying inappropriate behavior by any of the co workers, harassment is never ok and should be reported immediately.
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post #74 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 02:25 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

I've been hit on at business functions, yes. But, shut it down quickly. Not only because I'm engaged, but it's unprofessional to flirt 'innocently' even with colleagues. There are plenty of women who are jacka$$es too, though. Affairs take two, remember.
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post #75 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 02:45 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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I've been hit on at business functions, yes. But, shut it down quickly. Not only because I'm engaged, but it's unprofessional to flirt 'innocently' even with colleagues. There are plenty of women who are jacka$$es too, though. Affairs take two, remember.
I know someone (male) who was joking innocently with a female coworker (jokes were going both ways). Eventually the female was terminated for performance reasons but she was able to use the emails of these "jokes" to get a better severance package. It just isn't worth even getting into the "grey" area at work, too much of a risk.
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