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post #76 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 02:49 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Originally Posted by think positive View Post
thanks for all of your feedback. I find it interesting that so many people are making assumptions about my wife's behavior to essentially be "asking for it". I should reiterate that my wife's dress is not as suggestive as some have surmised.

I think this thread underscores the way in which men and women seem to have a lack of understanding of the other's vantage point. I think there are plenty of men that clearly missread signals and/or read them optimistically as many are in constant pursuit of the next piece of a$$. If for example my wife happens to touch a coworker in a non-sexual way, does he have the right or is it prudent to assume that she wants to Fu#$? I know allot of guys that would relentlessly pursue a women that has been fairly direct about her feelings.

Further, the notion that HR will solve all these problems is not that correct. I men this could create a real problem for my wife at her company. She could be regarded as a bi#%h or uptight.

I recently had a women who I had just met at my kids school function who hugged me goodbye. Not just a casual hug but, one where I could feel her boobs smushed against my chest. I mean if I later propositioned her would that be cool? That I would assume that she is an adulterer who wants to bone me?
No one (at least i didn't read such a comment) said that they were in the right to harass her, most people just said that touching strangers/coworkers is inappropiate and inappropiate behaviour is more likely to provoke inappropiate responses especially in stup!d a-holes.

The hug you got was inappropiate and that you didn't pursue her makes you a better human being than the a-holes at your wife's company. Doesn't change the fact that the hug was inappropiate (for you? for me it would be).
By touching coworkers your wife gives the ones that are a$$es an (or one more) excuse to harass her. The good guys would not make a move anyway, they could even be deterred by her breaking the boundary of physical contact.
Could be that the only excuse the harassers need is that she is female and they would behave like that regardless of her behaviour. Doesn't make it right, it's just how these guys think.
Some people steal cars no matter what, they break in and go off with it. Some just take one thats unlocked with keys in the ignition. Doesn't make stealing right. You just made it a lot easier for them by not locking your car. Locking your car minimizes the risk, not touching coworkers and keeping a professional distance does that too. The risk won't be zero but less.


How strong was the "No" your wife threw at the advances she was getting? If she is afraid about being labeled an uptight b!tch I would not assume her reaction was strong enough to deterr her pursuers which could mean that they see that as an invitation to continue. An easy victim that does not defend herself. Doesn't make their behaviour right, that's just how these guys operate.
Honestly, for me it sounds like a sh!tty place to work at.


So she basically has 3 options if she does not want to involve HR. She can endure the harassment, ignore the fnckers and wait if they lose interest or she can stand up for herself in no uncertain terms and live with the consequences (which could result in the same outcome if she were to involve HR) or leave the company. Just like a school kid that does not want to involve the teachers with getting bullied in the yard. Take the bullying, beat them or leave school.

It will can be a tough road and she will need your support either way.

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post #77 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 02:51 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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I think there are plenty of men that clearly missread signals and/or read them optimistically as many are in constant pursuit of the next piece of a$$.
Yes there are and many of them won't be "men in constant pursuit", they'll just be socially clueless guys who misread signals.
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post #78 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 03:04 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Further, the notion that HR will solve all these problems is not that correct. I men this could create a real problem for my wife at her company. She could be regarded as a bi#%h or uptight.
Agreed. It can be tough to navigate. Your wife probably knows best the particular workplace culture and what the likely reactions would be.
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post #79 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 03:06 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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I know someone (male) who was joking innocently with a female coworker (jokes were going both ways). Eventually the female was terminated for performance reasons but she was able to use the emails of these "jokes" to get a better severance package. It just isn't worth even getting into the "grey" area at work, too much of a risk.
Depending on your POV, this could actually be an argument *for* inappropriate joking.

Just sayin'.
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post #80 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 03:16 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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The hug you got was inappropiate and that you didn't pursue her makes you a better human being than the a-holes at your wife's company. Doesn't change the fact that the hug was inappropiate (for you? for me it would be).
By touching coworkers your wife gives the ones that are a$$es an (or one more) excuse to harass her. The good guys would not make a move anyway, they could even be deterred by her breaking the boundary of physical contact.
Different people, different cultures, different environments will all have different expectations around what is and is not appropriate in terms of dress and behaviour. In some cultures, for example, it is routine to greet people by kissing them on the cheeks. Some are more huggy or touchy than others. And what one set of standards would judge as "too casual" or "too revealing" another would judge to be fine.

In diverse workplaces in a globalized world, it can be a challenge to navigate.

I for one would hesitate before trying to convince someone to shut down a part of their personality/ way of being because an a-hole may misread it. I totally get that shutting people down is an effective way to, well, shut them down. But at the same time, as I was trying to articulate earlier, there is a real cost to this, both in terms of how you are perceived by your co-workers, as well as how you see yourself.

Being "professional" is not just one set of narrowly defined behaviours.
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post #81 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 03:23 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Originally Posted by always_alone View Post
Depending on your POV, this could actually be an argument *for* inappropriate joking.

Just sayin'.
I was trying not to go there, but yeah, the person in question made off ok ...
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post #82 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

I hear the comments about playing it safe. On the other hand I met with a guy that I used to work with years ago. He and I had gotten quite close. I greeted him with a handshake and he gave pulled me in for a hug. This is common with some of my international customers. Hugs are commonplace if you have known someone a while. So should I assume these men want to stick it in my backside or give me a blowjo$.

It is a sad that we spend most of our working hours interacting with other people. The workplace is where I have met most of my closest and longest enduring friendships. It is sad that we can't engage in human touch without being missunderstood by jackwads.
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post #83 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 04:26 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Originally Posted by think positive View Post
I hear the comments about playing it safe. On the other hand I met with a guy that I used to work with years ago. He and I had gotten quite close. I greeted him with a handshake and he gave pulled me in for a hug. This is common with some of my international customers. Hugs are commonplace if you have known someone a while. So should I assume these men want to stick it in my backside or give me a blowjo$.

It is a sad that we spend most of our working hours interacting with other people. The workplace is where I have met most of my closest and longest enduring friendships. It is sad that we can't engage in human touch without being missunderstood by jackwads.
For better or worse, there is a difference when this touching includes people of the opposite sex.

I don't see why you can't develop a friendship with co workers that doesn't involve touching them at work However, to each his own. That is not the environment I grew up in so it just seems off to me. When you factor in the liability side of it at work, there are just better/more appropriate places for this.
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post #84 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 04:37 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Originally Posted by think positive View Post
I hear the comments about playing it safe. On the other hand I met with a guy that I used to work with years ago. He and I had gotten quite close. I greeted him with a handshake and he gave pulled me in for a hug. This is common with some of my international customers. Hugs are commonplace if you have known someone a while. So should I assume these men want to stick it in my backside or give me a blowjo$.

It is a sad that we spend most of our working hours interacting with other people. The workplace is where I have met most of my closest and longest enduring friendships. It is sad that we can't engage in human touch without being missunderstood by jackwads.
Well physical interaction between 2 members of the same sex has much less sexual connotations, especially when both are heterosexual. Slap your male friend on his butt after he has done a good job and let a male coworker slap your wife on her butt when she has done a good job.
It's completely the same isn't it? Do you just misinterpret it?
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post #85 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 05:34 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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I've been hit on at business functions, yes. But, shut it down quickly. Not only because I'm engaged, but it's unprofessional to flirt 'innocently' even with colleagues. There are plenty of women who are jacka$$es too, though. Affairs take two, remember.
If I feel boundaries are being crossed, I just say, "let me stop you. I have a small penis."
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post #86 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 05:36 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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If I feel boundaries are being crossed, I just say, "let me stop you. I have a small penis."
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hahahaha!!
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post #87 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 05:37 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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hahahaha!!
Truth always keeps you safe
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post #88 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 03:14 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

"Like many women she is a "toucher" and perhaps men cannot decipher freeindly touching vs. flirting." Women should not be touching men in professional situations, and hoping that they decipher the hidden meanings behind that. There is a bright line which generally means no opposite sex physical contact.
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post #89 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 03:29 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

While I agree that in general not all physical contact means flirting or interest, women are not innocent victims either.

I have seen several cases in the work place where women walk around with their boobs popping out from the top of their clothes. There was a VP of Sales lady (not very attractive but big ones) who always dressed this way and sat in front of you at meetings and push them up. How can a straight guy not get distracted? I think such women get a kick out of doing this to see how men react. No one will blame the woman these days anyway because it is not PC. Blame the man for looking and for "body shaming" - another new term thrown around these days. At my previous work place, there was a 24 year old girl who would come to work in a dress that had the back open and you could see her bra from there go across quite openly. One poor guy noticed and thought she had lost a button.

Point is several women openly and brazenly display themselves and then reserve the right to complain that men look at them. Some just enjoy the power trip and others just love to gloat about the attention.
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post #90 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-05-2017, 09:28 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

Yes, lots of them...you could be surprised.

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