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post #91 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 05:12 AM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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I am by no means an angel in the case that I find many women attractive and am guilty of wondering what they may be like to be with sexually, admired their lady parts, face or whatever...OK to be truthful I look at women and admire them and even am aroused by other women, but would never actually make advances. I would only do that if I were totally unhappy.
Odd.

That sounds exactly like all the Jack Ass men you've described in your original post.

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post #92 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 06:14 AM
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Cool Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

Just enough of them out there to either, knowingly or unknowingly, "conveniently" misinterpret her "touchy-feely" gestures as nothing more than overt signals to proceed full speed ahead at hitting on her!

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post #93 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 07:23 AM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

Old thread, but here goes.

A woman who is attractive and friendly in the workplace is not "asking for it", even if she is wearing clothing that many may consider to be 'flaunting her assets', so to speak. I know this makes me sound like a PC Modern Man, White Knight, sensitive guy, but meh.

Technically, she can dress however she wants and shouldn't expect men to be hitting on her, but we all know that isn't the case, unfortunately.

Where I take exception is when people decide that somebody is looking for attention, or "flaunting it" based on how they're dressed. While that certainly may be true in some cases, it isn't always. It may simply be that they feel better or more confident in a certain dress or blouse. Having lived with more than one woman over the past ~20 years, I know all too well the impact that clothing can have on one's confidence on a day-to-day basis. And vice versa. She may have the confidence to wear 'that' dress today, but last week she put it on and went 'ugh, not today'.

The greatest irony I see in all of this (in terms of clothing, that is), is that the Western world, in general, is against cultures that women are typically covered up in some way. "It's sexist, and women should be allowed to dress how they want" is a familiar refrain, particularly when it comes to Muslim culture. But when a woman does dress how she wants, in what she's comfortable with, many of the same people decide it's too revealing, she should cover up a bit, or that she's fair game to be hit on.

I feel bad for women. "You poor thing, having to cover up all the time" to "Jesus, put some clothes on".

Men have basically dictated to women what the middle ground is, even in terms of how women interact with them. In the above example, not only are women expected to cover up their bodies, they're often not allowed to interact with men, other than family members (or if male family members are present). That's Draconian to many people (and not without good reason, but I digress). But in our Western culture, where women are allowed to interact with whomever they choose, they are often derided for how they do so.

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post #94 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 11:53 AM
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Old thread, but here goes.

A woman who is attractive and friendly in the workplace is not "asking for it", even if she is wearing clothing that many may consider to be 'flaunting her assets', so to speak. I know this makes me sound like a PC Modern Man, White Knight, sensitive guy, but meh.

Technically, she can dress however she wants and shouldn't expect men to be hitting on her, but we all know that isn't the case, unfortunately.

Where I take exception is when people decide that somebody is looking for attention, or "flaunting it" based on how they're dressed. While that certainly may be true in some cases, it isn't always. It may simply be that they feel better or more confident in a certain dress or blouse. Having lived with more than one woman over the past ~20 years, I know all too well the impact that clothing can have on one's confidence on a day-to-day basis. And vice versa. She may have the confidence to wear 'that' dress today, but last week she put it on and went 'ugh, not today'.

The greatest irony I see in all of this (in terms of clothing, that is), is that the Western world, in general, is against cultures that women are typically covered up in some way. "It's sexist, and women should be allowed to dress how they want" is a familiar refrain, particularly when it comes to Muslim culture. But when a woman does dress how she wants, in what she's comfortable with, many of the same people decide it's too revealing, she should cover up a bit, or that she's fair game to be hit on.

I feel bad for women. "You poor thing, having to cover up all the time" to "Jesus, put some clothes on".

Men have basically dictated to women what the middle ground is, even in terms of how women interact with them. In the above example, not only are women expected to cover up their bodies, they're often not allowed to interact with men, other than family members (or if male family members are present). That's Draconian to many people (and not without good reason, but I digress). But in our Western culture, where women are allowed to interact with whomever they choose, they are often derided for how they do so.
Sorry, this is a load of rubbish for two reasons:

1. Men are far more limited in what is acceptable for them to wear than women are in the workplace. It's other women that shame women for what they wear.

2. Men touching women in the workplace is completely unacceptable while the reverse is fine and appropriate apparently.
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post #95 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 01:21 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Sorry, this is a load of rubbish for two reasons:

1. Men are far more limited in what is acceptable for them to wear than women are in the workplace. It's other women that shame women for what they wear.

2. Men touching women in the workplace is completely unacceptable while the reverse is fine and appropriate apparently.
Exactly and this is where the double standard lies. There are serious consequence for men touching ...even looking at women at work while women can look, touch and do basically what even they please. Yet, women are always complaining how unfair the work place is to them. All they have to do is show a little skin and maybe they get that promotion their male counterpart should have gotten. Happens at my workplace all the time. I can't remember that last time a male was promoted.

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post #96 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 02:01 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

My former assistant is an attractive woman in her mid 30's - she always dressed appropriately, but she'd sometimes dress where she'd show a little bit of cleavage and/or some leg, and I was always careful not to snatch a look, which was difficult as she is very attractive (plus was a great employee - I miss her). We're a small office, and I don't need those kind of problems. We got along great, but I was always careful.

No worries with the current assistant - she's not very attractive plus is very overweight.
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post #97 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 02:29 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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while women can look, touch and do basically what even they please.
They can't. It's just that guys don't stop them.

Luckily the situation is quickly resolved if you just give them a 'WTF?!' look if they make a move/try to touch you and you don't want it.
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post #98 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 02:33 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Originally Posted by ChargingCharlie View Post
My former assistant is an attractive woman in her mid 30's - she always dressed appropriately, but she'd sometimes dress where she'd show a little bit of cleavage and/or some leg, and I was always careful not to snatch a look, which was difficult as she is very attractive (plus was a great employee - I miss her). We're a small office, and I don't need those kind of problems. We got along great, but I was always careful.
I had a similar situation, except it was a lot of cleavage and too few buttons buttoned. And I would discreetly have quick peeks. I can tell you about the problems, even 30 years later. Big problems, everyday.

Just kidding on the problems, I wound up marrying her. We still work together, no cleavage on display.



Sigh, my wife gives me the speaking treatment.
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post #99 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 03:32 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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I had a similar situation, except it was a lot of cleavage and too few buttons buttoned. And I would discreetly have quick peeks. I can tell you about the problems, even 30 years later. Big problems, everyday.

Just kidding on the problems, I wound up marrying her. We still work together, no cleavage on display.
Oh, yeah, I'd catch a peek when I could. She didn't show a lot of cleavage, but enough to pique interest. I recall one day a few years ago when a client called (he's about her age and he never met her in person) - when I got on the phone he says "Your assistant sounds hot, is she hot"? Well, that day she looked really good - skirt with black tights/hose and just enough cleavage (professional, but still looked great). I just deflected the reply (her desk is outside my door). All I know is that her husband is a lucky guy (and I'll reiterate, she was a great assistant. I'd bring her back in a second, and not for her looks).
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post #100 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 12:15 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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If I feel boundaries are being crossed, I just say, "let me stop you. I have a small penis."
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Come on.. this is hilarious... ...but you haven't done this!!

If on the off chance you are not kidding here...you gotta share a story....the look on their faces... the world is a crazy place.. I mean maybe you have !??



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post #101 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 12:35 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

Human interactions need to be adjusted to the situation. A workplace is not the same as a nightclub.

My belief is that a workplace:

The only acceptable touching is a handshake. No "friendly" hugs, pats, hands on shoulders, steering by the arm etc.

Personal discussions need to be limited. General things about family vacations etc are fine. No discussions of relationship issues.

It is OK to invite someone to a non-business dinner as a first step toward starting a relationship but it has to be done in a way that allows a very easy rejection. If the person is a direct report it needs to be done with extreme care, better not at all.

Clothing should be appropriate for work. Casual or formal is OK depending on the worksite, but clothing specifically designed to entice is not OK.
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post #102 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 07:52 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

Good questions from the OP. I think men are that clueless and perhaps it is the testosterone that drives them, I am not sure. Years ago I was working at a military base facility. My kids came to play with the other kids, everyone knew everyone. One younger man became obsessed with me and was playing my children to watch his car and telling my kids he thought I was beautiful....this was my kids! I called him out on his actions infront of another military member with rank. This young man was married, admitted he had a crush on me and could not stay at the base, opted to leave his wife and get out of the military.

Since opening my FaceBook account many years ago I have had many men, married or not, knowing I was married at the time, sending my IMs with interests in me. I let them know I was only interested in being friends but they did not stop.

Since my divorce I have had an old school mate that was pursuing me hard thru FaceBook and again I let him know that I had I only wanted friendship well, that I think offended him and I never heard from him again.

I knew my ex was doing the same garbage these other men were doing when I was married to him. My ex is 56, balding and heavy yet he thinks he stands a chance and I often wonder when these 60+ year old men sit beside me to chat me up if they seriously think I would ever be interested but why else would they sit and chat?
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post #103 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 08:38 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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"Like many women she is a "toucher" and perhaps men cannot decipher freeindly touching vs. flirting." Women should not be touching men in professional situations, and hoping that they decipher the hidden meanings behind that. There is a bright line which generally means no opposite sex physical contact.
I did not used to notice my casual touching of people until about 10 years ago when moving into some HR duties. Then they give you some coaching and stuff, and I all at once realized wow, yeah, I do sometimes touch a person's arm or shoulder, and if I had to be honest with myself, I would enjoy it more if it was a man with nice arms. Oops, I was sexually harassing people!!

So I just stopped touching altogether in the work place, other than perhaps a once a year professional/team building type hug at the holiday party with a few staff I've worked with for several years. And not only that, if I see someone is about to touch me in anyway, I just gently and almost imperceptibly move away from them so they cannot touch me. Usually if they keep reaching to touch me (not a common thing at all, maybe has only happened twice) and I keep moving away, it will suddenly be comical what is happening and he or she will stop and laugh and comment in a light hearted way, but then they won't continue to try to touch as it will be obvious I don't want to be touched. If I was asked, I would say "yes I just have high personal space boundaries and don't like to be touched" and leave it at that.

Where I work it is not anything that would ever commonly happen.

Although my (adult) son does work at my company...and when we see each other at work (not very often, maybe once a month), we hug and I kiss him on the cheek and I don't care who is looking. It is quite adorable, actually. He is a laborer, and is one of our tough guy team. But he still allows (and enjoys) a peck on the cheek and a hug from mom. People in the office think it is sweet.

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post #104 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 10:45 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Originally Posted by Good Guy View Post
Sorry, this is a load of rubbish for two reasons:

1. Men are far more limited in what is acceptable for them to wear than women are in the workplace. It's other women that shame women for what they wear.

2. Men touching women in the workplace is completely unacceptable while the reverse is fine and appropriate apparently.
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Originally Posted by jb02157 View Post
Exactly and this is where the double standard lies. There are serious consequence for men touching ...even looking at women at work while women can look, touch and do basically what even they please. Yet, women are always complaining how unfair the work place is to them. All they have to do is show a little skin and maybe they get that promotion their male counterpart should have gotten. Happens at my workplace all the time. I can't remember that last time a male was promoted.
Double standard? Maybe. But that's life. Not worth *****ing about.

As somebody else said in response to this, most men don't put up a fight if a woman touches them. Some do. Back in my office days, some women were just as forward as the men were. I've been hit on in the workplace, despite my marital status being known. I had a woman smack my behind once.

And true story, I once got a promotion, I strongly suspect, because the woman doing the interviews fancied me, personally. I was 4 months into an entry-level position and applied for a competition to a job that I figured was (and was right about) over my head. I genuinely applied for the interview experience, and nothing more. Far more qualified men and women lost out, and were none too happy. I literally found myself explaining what my intentions were to a co-worker, and that I did not expect to even get an interview, let alone the job. But from almost day one at that corporation, that woman seemed to pay a little extra attention to me, went out of her way to chat with me a couple of times a day, constantly asked how I liked the job, inquired to my marital status, etc. This was BEFORE the promotion. Went right over my head (I was young) until it was pointed out by more than one co-worker...

Regardless, sexual harassment and preferential treatment absolutely occurs with both genders. Men are often either too dense to notice, embarrassed, or perhaps even enjoy it, which is why there's rarely a visit to HR when it's woman on man. Some women certainly DO enjoy it, or even 'fish' for it - just as men do.

But deciding a woman is fishing because of the way she dresses... I dunno guys. That's projection on your part, which is exactly the point of my previous post. We men are typically the ones who decide things like 'too much clothes' or 'not enough clothes'. She's a prude, she's a *****. She smiled at me, she must like me. She touches my arm, she must want to sleep with me. She shows a little cleavage, she wants people to look. And on and on and on.

It's essentially saying "don't tempt me, what do you expect I'll do?", and turning it all around on the woman. Gross.

Ask yourself this: If you're the type of person who thinks a woman covering her head or face is barbaric and sexist and it must be men who are dictating this to her - then how can you justify going in the opposite direction, and saying that women can't wear too little, because then you'll be tempted to sneak a peek? Like I said, can't wear too much, can't wear too little. Some of you men seem to know what's best for women.

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post #105 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 12:38 PM
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Re: Are there that many Jack A$$ men

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Double standard? Maybe. But that's life. Not worth *****ing about.

As somebody else said in response to this, most men don't put up a fight if a woman touches them. Some do. Back in my office days, some women were just as forward as the men were. I've been hit on in the workplace, despite my marital status being known. I had a woman smack my behind once.

And true story, I once got a promotion, I strongly suspect, because the woman doing the interviews fancied me, personally. I was 4 months into an entry-level position and applied for a competition to a job that I figured was (and was right about) over my head. I genuinely applied for the interview experience, and nothing more. Far more qualified men and women lost out, and were none too happy. I literally found myself explaining what my intentions were to a co-worker, and that I did not expect to even get an interview, let alone the job. But from almost day one at that corporation, that woman seemed to pay a little extra attention to me, went out of her way to chat with me a couple of times a day, constantly asked how I liked the job, inquired to my marital status, etc. This was BEFORE the promotion. Went right over my head (I was young) until it was pointed out by more than one co-worker...

Regardless, sexual harassment and preferential treatment absolutely occurs with both genders. Men are often either too dense to notice, embarrassed, or perhaps even enjoy it, which is why there's rarely a visit to HR when it's woman on man. Some women certainly DO enjoy it, or even 'fish' for it - just as men do.

But deciding a woman is fishing because of the way she dresses... I dunno guys. That's projection on your part, which is exactly the point of my previous post. We men are typically the ones who decide things like 'too much clothes' or 'not enough clothes'. She's a prude, she's a *****. She smiled at me, she must like me. She touches my arm, she must want to sleep with me. She shows a little cleavage, she wants people to look. And on and on and on.

It's essentially saying "don't tempt me, what do you expect I'll do?", and turning it all around on the woman. Gross.

Ask yourself this: If you're the type of person who thinks a woman covering her head or face is barbaric and sexist and it must be men who are dictating this to her - then how can you justify going in the opposite direction, and saying that women can't wear too little, because then you'll be tempted to sneak a peek? Like I said, can't wear too much, can't wear too little. Some of you men seem to know what's best for women.
It definitely is worth talking about. It may be your experience that you feel you got a promotion because a woman boss "fancied" you. That makes you an extreme rarity. This happens 90% of the time to women not men.

As far as men going to HR to complain about women dressing inappropriately it's really the other way around, it's women dressed inappropriately who will go to HR complaining that men are making "unwanted" advances to her, getting men in trouble while she tries to takes their job opportunities away. I've see it happen at every company I've worked at. This is why men have to be so damn careful in the work world.

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