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Old 10-08-2011, 07:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do Women "Really" Think of Men

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Originally Posted by Brian. View Post
That's exactly the impression I get from "nice guys".

I know many alright decent guys who are genuinly "nice", keyword being genuinly. And they sure as hell don't proclaim that they are "nice guys" and whine about how no woman wants them because since they are genuinly good guys they don't have a problem with that.
I think you nailed it brother. Genuine "nice" guys sure as hell dont need to mention it or go out of their way to play a phony role to trick someone into believeing it to be so. Its just obvious.
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:27 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do Women "Really" Think of Men

FTR, I have been referring to myself as a "niceguy" a lot on here. I don't really mean it as a form of modesty either - though I definitely fit that description. Until recently I've never made the connection that my "niceness" wasn't insincere - I sincerely believed I've always been selfless, that I go so far out of my way to maintain the peace, be inoffensive, ensure people think good things about me... one thing about the no more mr nice guy is it did pull the sheets down from over my face and I realized I've been doing all the nice guy things for the wrong reasons... I'm 35 and depressed because all this time I've been trying harder and harder to remain inoffensive and becoming more lonely, disconnected and jaded, and yeah I do think being one of this type of guy has been ultimately deceitful and dishonest, not because I think calling myself a nice guy is a way to make myself get away with being a jerk, but because all along it has been the way I am in order to get things, rather than just accepting my needs and fulfilling them, I've expected things from others without their consent or knowledge. I now find myself at the bottom of a deep dark hole that is going to be a huge challenge to get out of, which I can't do by myself and honestly don't think I can ever get completely out of, I don't know that I can ever be integreted - confident and know it, but I already do know a lot about myself and that I have tremendous value, just not sure how to spend it.
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:50 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do Women "Really" Think of Men

My husband is a nice guy..not by his words though. He's sincere, honest, hard working and truly cares.

People who know him say he's an ass LOL Little do they know...

His good friends know who he is...and he has nothing to prove.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think men are confused as to what women want. I think this comes in part because women are confused to what they want. Our society has stripped us from our traditional roles (roles that worked well) and made everyone somewhat gender-neutral. No one really knowing WHAT type of man or woman they are which leads to unhappy unions between the sexes.
This is a good point. We should be allowed to have our individuality within reasonable limits, respect others for what they are and stop taking the media too seriously. We've come to a point where the only difference between being a woman and man is the physical aspect.
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do Women "Really" Think of Men

Catherine,
While I can understand the context of your comments, I do not entirely agree with them.
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1. There are men who are responsible for some of the greatest atrocities visited on humanity all directed towards the more vulnerable ...
If hypothetically, women had greater share of power, they would have done the same. At its height the British empire was ruled by a woman. Didn't make life any easier in the colonies. The Boer war, Amritsar massacre happened under her reign. There are 'bad' and 'good' PEOPLE. Women have historically not had the opportunity.

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2. When it comes to sex, many men see nothing morally wrong with objectifying women.
I understand & agree with this. But some girls of 20 like to marry older women (like Huffner - playboy) maybe because of the money. There are some women also who are guilty of "romance tourism" - go to Jamaica and get men with good figure for sex for some money though they do not agree this is prostitution.

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3. The pervasive hostility to the natural female rhythms of hormonal changes.
But many men are not like this from my knowledge.

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What is the percentage of women who do porn have been raped or sexually assaulted in childhood? What is percentage of men think porn is an industry that preys on the vulnerability of women and children (rape victims, sexually abused victims, drug addicted, misguided teens and young women, sex slaves).
I am against the porn industry. Certainly the coercion of women through contracts is at blame. But I think the problem is that as a Christian nation, American puts great deal on high morals, and leaves the deviants as a footnote. I would like prostitution to be legalised, but only the woman should benefit from that. In this way, it is totally upto her about her choices. We should accept that a good number of people will like to have a less restrictive sexual code and give them the avenue. Porn hides the unpleasant aspects, for example, a 20 minute scene takes about 6 hours. And the women and men, who are portrayed as the ideal sexual people, are very hurt & sore.

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There was a war on drugs, why can't the same thing be done to protect innocent kids, ... Why are prostitutes arrested but not their johns or pimps? There would be no prostitution if a vigorous campaign were instituted to arrest and jail men who use prostitutes along with the prostitute.
Catherine, many op-eds in The Economist & Financial Times felt that the war on drugs is a failure. Esp in America, people are locked up for taking mild drugs. Lots of money has been spent on the drugs war. Some people believe the banks are benefitting from Drugs, because they launder money and have a vested interested in keeping drugs illegal. I also think so.

As for banning prostitution, it is not going to work. Treat them as humans, but yes, ban the agents and street soliciting. It has worked reasonably well in Denmark, NZ and some European countries like Germany.

MfG
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:29 AM   #21 (permalink)
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What do I think of men... Hmmm... I have a lot of bad programming from the childhood years, BUT I've learned to appreciate the differences.

I like that men are stronger, less emotional... Even though I really like to see some expression of emotion sometimes.

I like that men are more comfortable in roles of authority and power...

I like that men are simple, for the most part.

As a woman, I sometimes feeling hampered and burdened with the emotional aspects of things. Men are great in their ability to comparmentalize and seperate things.

Bad programming says... Men can't be trusted. Men aren't naturally monogamous, (as women might not be, either). Men can be difficult to relate to... (I know, it is MY problem... but still a difficulty, as I'm sure it is for some others).
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:35 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do Women "Really" Think of Men

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This is lame ladies. Where is the Ian of the women lounge? The posts in the men's clubhouse were for the most part bitter, angry, criticle and condescending. It brought the haters in record numbers to spew their venom. I can never understand why women have a hard time giving it back to men in equal measure.
Ha! Your glasses are very tainted, as far as I'm concerned seeing things that weren’t there.

Come on, do the right thing and post actual examples of what you mean by the men being as you say “bitter, angry, critical and condescending”. And maybe we’ll find it’s my glasses that are tainted.

But come on Catherine, you put it out there, now respond to my challenge and give actual examples from that thread instead of innuendo and maybe you will enlighten me. I assure you I have an open mind about it and I’m always ready to learn.
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:54 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do Women "Really" Think of Men

Catherine (keep wanting to call you Cat..) - you may have just stepped up as the Ian of your side of the house. You won't take it this way, but I actually mean that as a compliment.

"Nice guy" - I don't think I'm the actual subject of the above discussion - by here's my 2 cents...

I picked my name BEFORE understanding what being a Nice Guy meant on this board. I still think its a reasonable name for myself - and - on this board - I wear it both with a bit of pride, but also kind of like a Scarlett letter. In many ways it represents what I need to improve on. But I also don't fully embrace this board's attitude towards my kind.

I think there are many Nice Guys who are living perfectly great lives with the "right" kind of woman. I feel like trying to do some of the things that have been suggested to me on this board would be the equivalent of putting on a mask. Much of it would be a temporary fix.

In other words - changing myself based on the advice I receive around here - trying to change WHO I AM - at my core - is pointless. I embrace my differences, although I sometimes struggle with the consequences.

At the end of the day - I choose to be true to myself. I take the good advice, and leave the bad. And I don't try to pretend to be someone I'm not - just to get other people to like me. Whether they be women - or the men on this board.

"I" think men are competitive. I think when younger, we're too aggressive given what little knowledge we have to work with. I think sometimes we're confused - stuck between trying to be a "new age" guy, but still retain some qualities of a "Real Man" - be it Ward Cleaver or John Wayne.

But for the most part, I think our problems and issues match up fairly well with our female counterparts. We're all human - we all have issues - and both genders have very DIVERSE populations.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:13 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Ha! Your glasses are very tainted, as far as I'm concerned seeing things that weren’t there.

Come on, do the right thing and post actual examples of what you mean by the men being as you say “bitter, angry, critical and condescending”. And maybe we’ll find it’s my glasses that are tainted.

But come on Catherine, you put it out there, now respond to my challenge and give actual examples from that thread instead of innuendo and maybe you will enlighten me. I assure you I have an open mind about it and I’m always ready to learn.
In the other thread, Catherine said "These responses are more about the men themselves nothing about what men think about women.", and therefore I'm choosing to go with her post as her opening up to what she believes rather than any referendum on the male gender. Her post is her view. Her glasses are only tainted in that they are not the same shade as yours.

You and I are perfectly capable of going over to the other thread and deciding for ourselves whether the posts were as bad as she thought they were, and forming opinions from there, but Catherine cannot be wrong if that's what she feels. The thread did ask for her opinion, after all.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:26 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Catherine (keep wanting to call you Cat..) - you may have just stepped up as the Ian of your side of the house. You won't take it this way, but I actually mean that as a compliment.

"Nice guy" - I don't think I'm the actual subject of the above discussion - by here's my 2 cents...

I picked my name BEFORE understanding what being a Nice Guy meant on this board. I still think its a reasonable name for myself - and - on this board - I wear it both with a bit of pride, but also kind of like a Scarlett letter. In many ways it represents what I need to improve on. But I also don't fully embrace this board's attitude towards my kind.

I think there are many Nice Guys who are living perfectly great lives with the "right" kind of woman. I feel like trying to do some of the things that have been suggested to me on this board would be the equivalent of putting on a mask. Much of it would be a temporary fix.

In other words - changing myself based on the advice I receive around here - trying to change WHO I AM - at my core - is pointless. I embrace my differences, although I sometimes struggle with the consequences.

At the end of the day - I choose to be true to myself. I take the good advice, and leave the bad. And I don't try to pretend to be someone I'm not - just to get other people to like me. Whether they be women - or the men on this board.

"I" think men are competitive. I think when younger, we're too aggressive given what little knowledge we have to work with. I think sometimes we're confused - stuck between trying to be a "new age" guy, but still retain some qualities of a "Real Man" - be it Ward Cleaver or John Wayne.

But for the most part, I think our problems and issues match up fairly well with our female counterparts. We're all human - we all have issues - and both genders have very DIVERSE populations.
But these are the EXACT reasons why I both admire you and respect what you have to write. You absolutely think for yourself and do not pander to what others want from you while not being afraid to agree with them either if you do, in fact, agree. You do all this while trying to see both sides, always. Not to mention, you're actually funny. You've no idea how rare you are or the degree of your value but I'm not sure most women get it either.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:33 AM   #26 (permalink)
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It's not that men are more likely to be violent against women, its that men are more likely to be violent against anybody.
I agree with this, one of the reasons is that men have 10 times more testosterone flowing through their veins, which is what brings out that raging aggression, but so many other influences as well (when you think about it , Football & extreme sports is a healthy outlet-likely keeping the crime rate down)...also how they are raised, heredity even, brain injuries are a huge factor, education, thier peers, drugs /alcohol, influence of other hormones out of whack in addition.

Violence: the enduring problem - Alex Alvarez, Ronet Bachman - Google Books


Causes of Crime - Explaining Crime, Physical Abnormalities, Psychological Disorders, Social And Economic Factors, Broken Windows, Income And Education - JRank Articles

I am with you Catherine on violent crimes such as Rape & Sex Offenders - I am for personally Chemically castrating ALL Sex Offenders, it is a HUGE problem and I have zero mercy on any of them.


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Scientists have observed the link between testosterone and aggression and concluded that high levels of testosterone correspond with increased violent and aggressive behavior in men (5). "It is the reason that stallions are high strung and impossible to train, the reason male dogs become vicious and start to bite people. It's why boys take chances and chase girls, why they drive too fast and deliberately start fights. In violent criminals, these tendencies are exaggerated and carried to extremes" (8). In an effort to stop male pedophiles, male child molesters have the option of being chemically castrated in some states. "Chemical castration is a term used to describe treatment with a drug called Depo-Provera that, when given to men, acts on the brain to inhibit hormones that stimulate the testicles to produce testosterone" (2). Depo-Provera is a common birth control pill that containing a synthetic version of the female hormone progesterone. Advocates of chemical castration hope that injections of Depo-Provera will prevent men from molesting children
Chemical Castration: The Benefits and Disadvantages Intrinsic to Injecting Male Pedophiliacs with Depo-Provera | Serendip's Exchange

Debate here : Debate: Castration of sex offenders - Debatepedia

I particularly do not care at all about "their rights", once found guilty, for this woman, they deserve zero mercy, I would prefer they never be let back into society. At the very least chemically castrating them.

I DO NOT however feel a 19 yr old who has sex with a WILLING 17 yr old girl should be on these sex offender lists at all. It is not the same thing or even comparable. I see no crime there, but 2 young people wanting to fool around, I don't feel the male is all to blame unless she was physically raped.

I feel women need to be taught from an early age thier effect on men, they are the weaker sex, not to entice , I feel they even have a greater responsibility to say "No", put on the brakes, knowing the way men's brains work in this area, all the more so. If we teach our girls this, they are less likely to get hurt by men. I feel WE set the bar, by how we dress, how we act, what we allow. Sure Guys take advantage of us, the are freaking horn dogs, but we don't have to let them.

If We as women concentrate more on our "responsiblity" in these things -teaching our daughters to say NO, to act above the bar........and MEN concentrate more on teaching their sons to RESPECT women - instead of each sex blaming the other sex..... I feel this is the healtiest way to raise our kids to not make mistakes as they grow older.

I would never teach my daughter she can go and & dress any way she pleases, g- string & all on the beach & near think the HORN DOGS are going to respect that, she has lowered her bar. To this mother, that is an advertisement she is looking to get laid. If that is what she wants to do, fine, but do not blame the man for coming on to her & possibly using her -if she gives in to that temptation. She had a hand in luring him -to expect him not to look and fantasize is acuaualy rather an insane request, as he would be going against his nature to resist feisting his eyes on that.

My older son is sitting here with me, we're talking, he just told me the new rave for some young girls is to dress like a "slu** on Halloween, one of them was talking to him the other day & she said " I love Halloween cause I can dress like a sl** without being one" - he just replied ...."that's retarted". He does feel however, we need to do away with Lada GaGa and these role models our girls see in the Media.

I don't know the answer. Just that as the stronger sex , us women have more of a responsibiity to not allow men to take advantage of us, it would STOP so much abuse, and so many of the problems Catherine talked about here. When a man RAPES and forces, it is completely a different matter or coarse -but to claim all of us women are helpless "victims" to all of men's lust. I simply can't go there.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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...There seems to be a fad among guys to refer to themselves as nice guys, when really most of the time they're not. They might be passive,shy, doormats or whatever but that doesn't equate to being a genuine nice guy...
The term "Nice Guy" was coined by Danny Glover, writer of No More Mr. Nice Guy. It refers to a generation of males who think that by openly being doormats (or "Nice Guys" in their own eyes), women will fall madly deeply in love with them, when there actions actually cause such things as depression and sexless marriages. It isnt meant to be taken literally as "guys who are nice."
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:37 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I did not like the things that were said by some of the men and not one man challenged the over the top comments. I will not be a nice girl and tell them nice things so they don't say evil things to me. I will say what I see in my eyes with out reference to what I should say to placate the haters so they don't call me a fat ugly homo, man- hater harpy. I dont care what they say, I define me. I have decided to draw a line in the sand - I will no longer silence my voice when men take the opportunity pillory women. I will answer the haters in kind.
Hopefully, we all choose our battles, based on some internal code we follow. I think we all know, though, when someone spews ignorace in a superficial thread, challenging loses its merit when many just choose to argue for the sake of arguing.

Sometimes, its easy for me to see why women could have a very poor view of men, but it shows why most of us know that its a bad idea to challenge some of the basic mindsets. It quickly gets very ugly and personal. Yesterday, when I went to a video store, a middle aged guy returned a video where a store clerk had put the wrong one in a case. He seemed determind to make the woman behind the counter cry, as if this would somehow make things better for him. He argued that the time spent fixing her mistake was making him late to an event, and that a simple refund wasn't enough. Yet my own way of dealing with this only gave the clerk a similar bad view of us men. The guys seemed oblivious to why I was calling him Richard when I told him to lighten up, arguing that I must have mistaken him for someone else. When I explained that a common nickname for Richard was D1ck, I thought the woman behind the counter was going to pass out.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:39 AM   #29 (permalink)
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The term "Nice Guy" was coined by Danny Glover, writer of No More Mr. Nice Guy. It refers to a generation of males who think that by openly being doormats (or "Nice Guys" in their own eyes), women will fall madly deeply in love with them, when there actions actually cause such things as depression and sexless marriages. It isnt meant to be taken literally as "guys who are nice."
Yes - thank you for the clarification.

Most guys here who have spent much time in the Men's lounge are aware of what a "Nice Guy" is. I use caps and quotes when referring to it in this context.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:49 AM   #30 (permalink)
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But these are the EXACT reasons why I both admire you and respect what you have to write. You absolutely think for yourself and do not pander to what others want from you while not being afraid to agree with them either if you do, in fact, agree. You do all this while trying to see both sides, always. Not to mention, you're actually funny. You've no idea how rare you are or the degree of your value but I'm not sure most women get it either.
Thank you for the kind words. But at the end of the day - I'm really just trying to be myself.

Although this is a step down from the post where you proposed to me. Are we drifting apart?

Maybe that's why we have a 50% divorce rate - people wearing masks that eventually have to come off.

Not sure what it means - but the difference in tone between "this" thread and the one in the Men's clubhouse - fascinating!
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