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post #76 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 07:12 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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As you know, I've been feeling very fragile lately so I really appreciate you posting that about triggers. It made me remember how strong I felt, how hopeful I felt. Maybe one day I can get back to that mind set.
Can you accept you might not get back to that mindset?

Could it instead be a version of self you remember fondly while recognizing you have changed... and the you now is who you need to be for right now?


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post #77 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 08:03 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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One thing I have noticed in terms of body image, women seem to be the harshest critics of each other, which you could argue just further contributes to body image issues.

As you can tell by my avatar, I own my sexuality
I've experienced the opposite; women who shrug off potential body issues in favor of focusing on what's really important in their lives. There's pride in appearance balanced with healthy perspective. It's grounding to be surrounded by women like this.

I felt funky about my weight this week all of my own accord. I mentioned to a couple of women. They don't care how I look however they did encourage (and support) me to get more active again.

There was a rare moment recently that I experienced a woman being critical. She looked me up and down, then questioned and commented on my outfit in such a way that it seemed less about my appearance and more about her insecure need to assert some kind of dominance. I'm not a threat and she's not to me, so my inner dialogue reaction was simply 'Eh..'

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post #78 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 08:35 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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Exactly. You can't quiet the external noise. And when push comes to shove a lot of us aren't fabulous, we're too fat or too stinky or too scruffy. And so it's all mixed messages. Think of yourself as fabulous. But oops sorry, not you because you're too X. Oh and not you over there because you're too Y.

I don't disagree with your point about positive self image, Anon Pink. Just to me a lot of it is platitude because so few people really mean it.

At any rate, I saw your OP as a kind of invalidation of the very real obstacles that women face in developing a healthy image, and I just thought it worthwhile to point out just how real they are. When virtually all women spend the amount of time and money we do to conform more closely to a media image of beauty, then I think it's actually pretty reasonable to blame media and external sources.

Doesn't mean there's also a ton of internal work to do to. And I get that. But really, our society is pretty twisted in the way that it views women's bodies. At least, IMHO.
You are a thoughtful person, jade. What do you think could help us develop a healthier self image?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #79 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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Can you accept you might not get back to that mindset?

Could it instead be a version of self you remember fondly while recognizing you have changed... and the you now is who you need to be for right now?
Hmmmm, that's complicated. I don't know if I can accept that I might not get back to that mindset. I dont think the current me ... I just don't know. To just accept this me because for right now it's who I need to be... mind overload. Probably I think maybe you might be right. To switch mentally and hold an image of me healing, resting so healing happens, instead of me seeking solitude and distance and seeking numbness. I have to think on this.

@wild jade

Yes I think we've reached an accord because I feel like I understand your POV better now. I think I've been insensitive and I apologize.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

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post #80 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 10:13 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

I expect he loves your body. I love my wife's body - she is in her 50s, had a partial mastectomy, etc, but I still love her body. When I see her I feel love and desire, I know there are flaws, but I don't notice them.




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A negative mental rut is definitely hard to climb out of! And it is empowering to take responsibility for our feelings, instead of waiting for someone else to make us feel better. That can make us dependent on them. And dependence, even on someone very trustworthy, can be a vulnerable place.

And I am not even sure it works.

My husband has been telling me for decades now how much he loves my body. I will tell him all the things that are wrong with it, and his response invariably is to tell me how much he loves it, how beautiful he thinks it is, etc. And I respond by telling him he is crazy. We just see my body differently.

Maybe someday I will love my body. Maybe someday I will see it the way he does. It really is a shame I have bought so deeply into our cultural conditioning. It is very limited. I have denied myself a lot of peace by doing that.



I hear you. I am concerned about religion or emotion as an exclusive basis for decision making, especially in politics.

I do think those elements can be inspirational. But wise decisions, to be sustainable, usually require a strong rational basis as well.
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post #81 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 10:31 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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I expect he loves your body. I love my wife's body - she is in her 50s, had a partial mastectomy, etc, but I still love her body. When I see her I feel love and desire, I know there are flaws, but I don't notice them.
I don't doubt his sincerity. And I definitely feel his desire for me. I just do not understand why he feels that lust for a body that seems very inadequate to me.

And that incomprehension is undoubtedly thanks to my cultural conditioning.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #82 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 11:31 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

He cares about YOU not your body.

How do you feel about his body? I assume he is not Adonis come to earth, but just a guy that you love, with a normal body with the usual set of flaws.

We are all conditioned by culture to worry about how we look and how we act, what we should be attracted to.

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I don't doubt his sincerity. And I definitely feel his desire for me. I just do not understand why he feels that lust for a body that seems very inadequate to me.

And that incomprehension is undoubtedly thanks to my cultural conditioning.
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post #83 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 11:39 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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He cares about YOU not your body.

How do you feel about his body? I assume he is not Adonis come to earth, but just a guy that you love, with a normal body with the usual set of flaws.

We are all conditioned by culture to worry about how we look and how we act, what we should be attracted to.
He definitely loves my spirit, my essence. But he also really loves my body. He genuinely gets excited by it.

I think his body is beautiful, too. Dug is tall and strong. I am very attracted to him, both physically and emotionally.

We are probably both just in a fog about each other. Objectively we are nothing special. But to each other, we are very special.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #84 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 11:54 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

That "fog" is called love. Its exactly how it should be. It means that you can stay attracted to each other for the rest of your lives.



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snip

We are probably both just in a fog about each other. Objectively we are nothing special. But to each other, we are very special.
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post #85 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 03:54 PM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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@wild jade

Yes I think we've reached an accord because I feel like I understand your POV better now. I think I've been insensitive and I apologize.
No worries! I'm a bit of a tank, and forget that others are not sometimes. So my apologies too!

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post #86 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 04:48 PM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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You are a thoughtful person, jade. What do you think could help us develop a healthier self image?
I can only answer for myself on this one. But for me, I am happiest when I avoid mirrors as much as possible. And I resist all and any suggestions about how I should look, dress, groom myself -- at least as much as possible. Take me as I am, or, oh well, tough.

That makes me sound more hardline than I am, because I do dress professionally enough for work, and clean myself up to "fit in" with what society thinks that I should look like/be. I also genuinely enjoy clothes and fabrics, and arty things.

But like the women that @heartsbeating was commenting on, I don't invest much of my self esteem in my looks. And I don't cater to guys' whims, period. Full stop. Don't care what you find hot. If it ain't me, move on to one of the other 3 billion women on the planet. Both of us will be better off if you do.

The solutions that work for me wouldn't work for a lot of other women, I get that. And even then, it's not like I don't struggle with the mixed messages and the temptations to self loathing for being "not enough." What saves me is that I am also, like I said, a bit of a tank. Want to ride with me? Only if you can keep up!
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post #87 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 04:57 PM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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I can only answer for myself on this one. But for me, I am happiest when I avoid mirrors as much as possible. And I resist all and any suggestions about how I should look, dress, groom myself -- at least as much as possible. Take me as I am, or, oh well, tough.

That makes me sound more hardline than I am, because I do dress professionally enough for work, and clean myself up to "fit in" with what society thinks that I should look like/be. I also genuinely enjoy clothes and fabrics, and arty things.

But like the women that @heartsbeating was commenting on, I don't invest much of my self esteem in my looks. And I don't cater to guys' whims, period. Full stop. Don't care what you find hot. If it ain't me, move on to one of the other 3 billion women on the planet. Both of us will be better off if you do.

The solutions that work for me wouldn't work for a lot of other women, I get that. And even then, it's not like I don't struggle with the mixed messages and the temptations to self loathing for being "not enough." What saves me is that I am also, like I said, a bit of a tank. Want to ride with me? Only if you can keep up!
This all sounds very healthy.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, jade.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #88 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 09:24 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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No one would bat an eye at a man who had sex with a different woman every night.
Just not always true....there may be far fewer of us today, but some still care....and we don't have to be religious stuffy fundamentalists to feel this way either..

For those who attaches the emotional with sharing their bodies, whether something in us is wired this way or we just long for it in our own lives, relationships, where sex is so much more than just a physical release, it's like a spiritual bonding even....the act of sex holds very special meaning, reassurance, and love...

If a man can just stick his member in a different woman every couple days or whatever...this would be very distasteful to us... ..What really would we have in common?? Very different lifestyles, to what we seek for fulfillment , happiness.....

Last edited by SimplyAmorous; 04-08-2017 at 09:30 AM.
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post #89 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 09:50 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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Just not always true....there may be far fewer of us today, but some still care....and we don't have to be religious stuffy fundamentalists to feel this way either..

For those who attaches the emotional with sharing their bodies, whether something in us is wired this way or we just long for it in our own lives, relationships, where sex is so much more than just a physical release, it's like a spiritual bonding even....the act of sex holds very special meaning, reassurance, and love...

If a man can just stick his member in a different woman every couple days or whatever...this would be very distasteful to us... ..What really would we have in common?? Very different lifestyles, to what we seek for fulfillment , happiness.....
I see it this way, too. I would be very concerned to be with a man with a high partner count, especially a different partner every night.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #90 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 10:27 AM
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Re: Porn, women, body image

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He definitely loves my spirit, my essence. But he also really loves my body. He genuinely gets excited by it.

I think his body is beautiful, too. Dug is tall and strong. I am very attracted to him, both physically and emotionally.

We are probably both just in a fog about each other. Objectively we are nothing special. But to each other, we are very special.
I love this post.. this is the of it... I've been wanting to do a thread on "Idealism" in marriage... it's what you speak here .. and it's a blessing to any marriage, not to mention the sex life !

Suddenly match any of us with someone new, with no history, shared memories, the laughter & the hard times & bedroom antics .... we wouldn't be much of anything special at all... but to our loved ones who've been there to wipe our tears, or fell madly in love with us way back then.. these feelings stay with us.. they become a part of us even .. our story.... we ARE the most precious thing on this earth TO THEM...their jewel, a beauty... it's like "coming home"...

I remember as a little girl (always analyzing).... I'd hear someone going on how they have "The BEST Grandmother in the world" ...things spoken like this....the highest praising comments of a loved one... I remember thinking to myself... "well that's surely a BOLD statement...no one can say that ! Endless Grandmothers have lived & Died"....I mean I am sure she is wonderful & all..... but "the BEST"...that's craziness...

What I realized years later....is this blessing of "Idealism".. that Love/ attachment does this to us, we are speaking the truth, our truth ... that yes...this woman was "the best Grandmother a girl could have"...she was very special, set apart, there is no other like her...

It's how we feel about this person who has enhanced our lives..... a little fog isn't always bad...
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