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post #346 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 08:03 PM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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Even my nasty, mean, abusive, cheating ex (son’s father) absolutely fell apart when after 7 years of him making our marriage sexless and 14 years of his abuse I divorced him. He could not believe that I would do that. Poor baby, he lost his punching bag. Seriously, he was begging me to come back and he would fix himself… HUH!?
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She can deprive him of her attention and her presence.

Her presence meaning to him: someone close at hand to control, and who can produce convenient admiration. Her attention meaning that he will now have to do for himself or outsource, whatever it was that he valued. Laundry, cooking, cleaning, sex, care for any minor children during his parenting time.
Both of your husbands just seemed like sociopaths. I don't think anything either of you could have threatened would have made any difference. I'm so happy you both escaped (maybe this is a thing with husband caused sexless marriages; I'm pretty sure a higher percentage of men are sociopaths).

With similarly twisted wives, I'm sure that there's not much to be done there either.

If a marriage is sexless due to the woman, there's a feeling that it's more that she has a phobia regarding sex or is simply selfish and not convinced that sex is really all that important. I don't recall many sexless marriage stories from men with wives operating on your ex's levels (and, if they are, the sexless issue isn't the main problem).

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post #347 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 09:16 PM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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Both of your husbands just seemed like sociopaths. I don't think anything either of you could have threatened would have made any difference. I'm so happy you both escaped (maybe this is a thing with husband caused sexless marriages; I'm pretty sure a higher percentage of men are sociopaths).

With similarly twisted wives, I'm sure that there's not much to be done there either.

If a marriage is sexless due to the woman, there's a feeling that it's more that she has a phobia regarding sex or is simply selfish and not convinced that sex is really all that important. I don't recall many sexless marriage stories from men with wives operating on your ex's levels (and, if they are, the sexless issue isn't the main problem).
Sociopath and Psychopath are what they used to call Cluster B personality disorders. When I say my ex had Narcissistic Personality Disorder, i am saying that he had quite a few psychopathic tendencies.

I tend to disagree, there are several men with stories like this on TAM. The only one I can think of off hand who has a partner that controls with withholding sex is Coppertop, but I know there are more. John117? Not to say that's the exclusive way that they attempt to steer the relationship, just the most often used. Many times that you see a long thread with someone who is described as BSC(bat sh!t crazy) you are looking at some kind of Personality disorder (PD). Women can control by ruining everything you like, just as a man could. Maybe worse, because they tend to stick around and influence the children more then their male counterparts.

I said it a few pages back i think, but i really do think sexlessness is a less common "punishment" by this kind of man. It's not really about sex, they take away what you care about. I cared about having a happy healthy relationship with physical touch and quality time. So, he made it so I couldn't have that.

When i moved out of our room, and told him i never wanted to have sex with him again, he flipped his entire MO.
Because after that, I was subjected to forced intimacy, sexual assault, and attempted rape.

I believe many relationships that are this way (a disordered man with a HD/AD woman), instead of ending up with a sexless relationship with a sexually disinterested man, end up being cheated on repeatedly instead. Only a certain kind of man doesn't care about sex enough for near celibacy. The ones who can't do without, punish by outsourcing sex and making sure you find out. That's also why my ex beat me so often in the beginning, before I told the families and created an immediate unpleasant consequence. Physically abusing someone with a physical touch love language is going to be particularly damaging. If they can't take away your heart's desire, they will ruin it.

My ex (after 8+ years with me of near sexlessness/withholding affection) as soon as I moved out he moved a new girl in and made sure i knew they were screwing all the time.
It was never about sex. Only control and punishment.

So, to sum up, this is only going to apply to a very small subset of women on this thread. There will be a few, i'm certain, but not most.

Forget enough to get over it, remember enough so it doesn't happen again.

Last edited by sixty-eight; 11-02-2016 at 12:01 AM.
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post #348 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 11:13 PM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

True BSC people can hardly think ahead, let alone craft elaborate schemes... I think it's something even more than your friendly neighborhood cluster B disorders, more likely a completely different type of pathology.
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post #349 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 11:24 PM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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I'm OK with "I'm filing for divorce if you don't go to counseling with me and work to improve our sex live".
BTDT, much subtler but still clear, I saw it as being honest and open with my wife. Not a threat, but stating a fact, I "wasn't going to be able live like this long term". It sucked and kinda felt like a threat, but I owed her that. We're good now, but I'm not sure that discussion had any direct impact on that, I'll take it.



Sigh, my wife gives me the speaking treatment.
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post #350 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 11:45 PM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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True BSC people can hardly think ahead, let alone craft elaborate schemes... I think it's something even more than your friendly neighborhood cluster B disorders, more likely a completely different type of pathology.
maybe actual BSCrazy aren't capable. Not the truely disordered, or at least, the disordered I lived with. I feel like plotting and scheming were 95% of his brainpower.
haha , I propose that that's where all his sexual energy got funneled to.

I was just saying that if you were trying to track how many people are dealing with PD's on TAM, the abbreviated BSC (because it's used so many times to be worthy of abbreviation) is a big ole red flag. Maybe something for discussion on another thread, so as not to threadjack.

Forget enough to get over it, remember enough so it doesn't happen again.

Last edited by sixty-eight; 11-01-2016 at 11:55 PM.
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post #351 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 12:01 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

In both cases it's like a PC taken over by a virus... Be it BSC or PD, normal cognitive processes pretty much go the way of the dodo bird.

Isn't that why we call them disorders ?
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post #352 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 12:05 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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In both cases it's like a PC taken over by a virus... Be it BSC or PD, normal cognitive processes pretty much go the way of the dodo bird.

Isn't that why we call them disorders ?
I don't know. With mine, it was all about control. The cognitive processes were all still there. What was missing with the empathy, the emotions and feelings. The only people i ever caught him actively considering their feelings were our kids and his mother. and even then, only sometimes.

ETA: his own feelings were also missing. I used to joke that he reminded me of the Terminator. Purely analytical processes, no feelings; like a robot. From what I understand, that's relatively common for the NPD subcategory. I have 2 relatives (who I believe to have BPD), who seems to be purely made of emotions and fleeting thoughts without logic. They would be incapable of cognitive processes or plotting, as you said. Maybe that's the difference between the two types?

Forget enough to get over it, remember enough so it doesn't happen again.

Last edited by sixty-eight; 11-02-2016 at 12:56 AM. Reason: ETA
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post #353 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 12:29 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

@sixty-eight I can't "like" your long post because it is so horrifying. I agree with it and am very glad you got out.
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post #354 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 09:04 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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Rather than "outsourcing", just leave.
I agree.

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Even if you can compel the behavior you want by threat, why would you want that. Who wants a partner that has sex with them out of fear of being divorced, rather than out of desire.
I did. For years. All I cared about was the ego rush from consent. Having to manipulate her into granting that consent would not have deterred me. That is why I accepted nothing but starfish sex for so long.

I now agree with you and only want desired sex. So, of course, we don't have any at all. That is an improvement, right?

FWIW, I believe we have now eclipsed out previous record drought of 15 months by a substantial margin. But I don't think you can call it a drought when there is no expectation of any future precipitation. Maybe I should say our colony on the moon has lasted a record amount of time.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #355 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 09:26 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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I've never thought destabilizing was a good idea in any relationship.

I agree that men value all sorts of things in a marriage other than food and sex. What they value varies, but there is a wide range.

"Outsourcing" sex is another word for cheating. Its not OK for men or women. Both men and women can generally find sex outside of marriage if they want to.

Rather than "outsourcing", just leave. Even if you can compel the behavior you want by threat, why would you want that. Who wants a partner that has sex with them out of fear of being divorced, rather than out of desire.
Outsourcing as cheating, is not ok. Outsourcing as opening the marriage is questionably ok to me, as long as all parties give consent. At the end of my marriage when we were separated in the same house, I knew I wouldn't be sleeping with him ever again. I told him it was fine if he wanted to go out on dates/have sex with others, just not to bring them to our mutual residence with the kids. We were still legally married, we still are legally married, and he has had several girlfriends. I do not want someone to feel tied to celibacy because of my choices. To me, that's the equivalent of him keeping us celibate all those years by his choices.
I do think that simply leaving is far preferable.

Who wants a partner that has sex with them out of fear of being divorced, rather than out of desire.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.


Forget enough to get over it, remember enough so it doesn't happen again.
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post #356 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 09:48 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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In both cases it's like a PC taken over by a virus... Be it BSC or PD, normal cognitive processes pretty much go the way of the dodo bird.

Isn't that why we call them disorders ?
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Originally Posted by sixty-eight View Post
I don't know. With mine, it was all about control. The cognitive processes were all still there. What was missing with the empathy, the emotions and feelings. The only people i ever caught him actively considering their feelings were our kids and his mother. and even then, only sometimes.

ETA: his own feelings were also missing. I used to joke that he reminded me of the Terminator. Purely analytical processes, no feelings; like a robot. From what I understand, that's relatively common for the NPD subcategory. I have 2 relatives (who I believe to have BPD), who seems to be purely made of emotions and fleeting thoughts without logic. They would be incapable of cognitive processes or plotting, as you said. Maybe that's the difference between the two types?
Sometimes I wonder if my FOO issues (growing up with several disordered in my immediate family and daily life) Made me more likely to accept sub par treatment in my marriage.
Treatment such as sexlessness/control/baseless punishment/abuse.
I know there were other factors: general stubbornness, lack of options, marriage vows, trauma bonding. But I believe my FOO to be at the root of my decisions to stay.

I also wonder if it made me a target for that kind of person, or more susceptible to the love bombing or both.

Anyone else wonder that? If FOO issues (of any kind) led you to try to cope and work on your sexless marriage instead of leaving it?

Forget enough to get over it, remember enough so it doesn't happen again.

Last edited by sixty-eight; 11-02-2016 at 10:34 AM.
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post #357 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 10:49 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

It an interesting question, maybe rates its own thread.

Some women (and presumably men) seem to have a higher than normal chance of living in abusive relationships. From the few examples I've seen, it strangely seems more associated with strength than with weakness. Women who are willing to accept / tolerate all sorts of mistreatment in order to preserve something they think is important - their marriage. The woman I know personally who is being mistreated by her husband (not exactly abuse, but close), is very strong and seems to feel that "marriage" is important enough to put up with anything. Its a unfortunate case of applying strength and honor in the wrong place. (btw, several of us have been trying to convince her to get out of this bad marriage).

There may be all sort of other patterns as well.




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Originally Posted by sixty-eight View Post
Sometimes I wonder if my FOO issues (growing up with several disordered in my immediate family and daily life) Made me more likely to accept sub par treatment in my marriage.
Treatment such as sexlessness/control/baseless punishment/abuse.
I know there were other factors: general stubbornness, lack of options, marriage vows, trauma bonding. But I believe my FOO to be at the root of my decisions to stay.

I also wonder if it made me a target for that kind of person, or more susceptible to the love bombing or both.

Anyone else wonder that? If FOO issues (of any kind) led you to try to cope and work on your sexless marriage instead of leaving it?
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post #358 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 10:55 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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I said it a few pages back i think, but i really do think sexlessness is a less common "punishment" by this kind of man. It's not really about sex, they take away what you care about. I cared about having a happy healthy relationship with physical touch and quality time. So, he made it so I couldn't have that.
I wouldn't think that this kind of man withdraws sex as a rule, only if the woman cares about it. If she didn't care about sex, he'd find something else.
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post #359 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 11:08 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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Even if you can compel the behavior you want by threat, why would you want that. Who wants a partner that has sex with them out of fear of being divorced, rather than out of desire.
If you told your spouse that if your sex life didn't improve, you'd leave and sex subsequently got better then one of two things could be happening.

1) They are "forcing" themselves to have sex with you

2) They like having sex with you and either didn't realize how important it was to you or needed something to motivate them into giving it a higher priority.

I think you'd be able to tell the difference. If not, why default to option 1?

If a husband goes out drinking constantly with his buddies is it okay for his wife to say "If this doesn't change I'll leave"? Is she not allowed to let him know the probable consequence of his behavior? Would it not matter if he stayed home more often since, after all, he'd only be doing it because he was "forced" to.

The idea that one should never compromise or ask their spouse to compromise because they "should want to do it on their own" is very destructive to relationships.
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post #360 of 429 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 11:12 AM
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Re: The Sex Starved Wife

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I wouldn't think that this kind of man withdraws sex as a rule, only if the woman cares about it. If she didn't care about sex, he'd find something else.
right, that's exactly what i'm saying. That's why there will only be a few similar posts to mine here on this thread.

There is also the factor that the goal of this man is to ruin sex for the woman who cares about sex, not necessarily to make it sexless. This can be accomplished several ways. 1) to abstain from sex completely, or as close as possible. 2) to insist on only what he likes in sex with no compromise, or painful or unpleasant sex. For instance, no foreplay, no oral for her, asking for bj's to completion and then not reciprocating, purposefully not bringing her or allowing her to orgasm, whatever brings no mutual joy or completion to that particular woman or any woman 3) To cheat repeatedly, destroying the sexual relationship between the couple.

Like you said, if she doesn't care about sex, he will simply abstain from or destroy the thing she does in fact care about.

Forget enough to get over it, remember enough so it doesn't happen again.

Last edited by sixty-eight; 11-02-2016 at 11:19 AM.
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