Trying2figureitout

Halien,

Great points.. I have thought of studying my wife and I think now that she is almost back to her normal self it ay be very worthwhile. Its tough to study when they aren't receptive but her and I have a good interaction going that I think she is starting to exhibit subtle quirks I can study. My wife is trying to rebuild what we had . One good thing that has come out of this is I do feel we will be much more able to talk about anything. I plan to talk to her about sex often in order to learn what makes her tick. I really believe she underneath has a strong libido...it's almost like we are starting over so it's exciting to think we can start fresh.I'm encouraging her to talk about any desire she has or need she has... I want this win/win.

Thanks for saying I was doing a good job.

Enginerd

You are all talk my man. You keep talking and waiting and talking and waiting and then say its up to her. She is the man and you are the women in your relationship.

Peace

Trying2figureitout

It is up to her..if she wants to continue sexless then I have my answer.


Look there is no reason to be rash here.,,, its not like you throw away a good marriage in every other aspect.. like that and break up an intact home for the kids. It may have to happen but I've really only been giving her the full court press for a couple months..chill.


You people crack me up sometimes. I'd like to see what you tough guys do. A lot of you are all talk too.

If you think I'm a women in the relationship... whatever.

Out

Havesomethingtosay

You've pretty much been sexless your entire marriage. You have said it is usually 15-20X's/yr. Many hear lament sexless marriages, however did have sex regularly for a number of years.

You never have. The best to expect is the 15-20X's/yr and the positions and foreplay you once had. Didn't you say you do all the work and she doesn't show affection, hugs or kisses. Heck you haven't had those in 2 years!!!!!

Trying2figureitout

That was mainly my fault, I was too accepting and nice... now I'm fixing it. It was like clockwork and that helped because I was expecting it...problems started when that expectation wasn't met at all.

I was actually OK with sex every 21-30 days (latter part of our marriage before it was more) because we had a lot of non-sexual contact and occasional finger play etc. I did this because I wanted to not press her on sex and that was about her normal desire level plus she sleeps so damn early. Now I'm correcting that because when that faltered thats when I acted out and she did ILYNILWY. We are not going back to that ever again.

I need a safety net built in that is why I'm insisting on weekly now. Time for my drive to be taken into account after she pulled this stunt. We have to find a middle frequency...weekly works.

Lately she has shown no affection (physically apart from the sex we managed after the disconnect)

My wife used to show more affection..but neither of us have been overly lovey duby. So in time we should get back to what we had earlier. I need to get a hot tub that was fun way back. Most of our
intimacy though has been bedroom sex all along.

MEM11363

Halien,
There is a reason you have a wife who loves you and that is you "listen" with your ears and eyes and other senses. You know what works and does not.

I freely agree there are many types of edge and individual women prefer some and dislike others.

I do however believe that almost all women respond badly to a man who loudly states a boundary and then does not enforce it firmly.


QUOTE=Halien;507943]I've always been very impressed by MEM's advice. Keep in mind, though, that you might think you have initiated a certain edge into the way you relate to your wife, but it might not be THE type of edge that works for your wife.

Someone commented about how some of us have not been ina situation where sex was absent. That's a really good point. But what I want to point out is that it does seem like you are building a strategy and adenda that you learned from men and women here, but may be missing a step, which is what I was trying to say in the last post. You have to know your wife, and what communicates your desire for her in a way that she responds to. Yes, she should've done her part, but you are doing a good job of trying to deal with what you have. Just appears that you are developing this plan with input from everyone except the silent language of your wife.

Lots of people think I'm alpha. I've apparently rubbed some posters wrong in the way I respond because of this. Would it surprise you to know that my wife can't stand alpha types - you know, the generic types out there? She definately likes a mix of beta traits, but needs an edge. When she was younger, she was very much pursued, but not interested in many types.

I've learned how my wife's idea of what excited her sexually matured as she grew up. I can tell you the first guy she had sexual thoughts about, and why. I know that my business voice turns her off, but she likes it when I talk like I do when I'm dreaming of 'what if'. If I do very specific nurturing activities with her children (our children), she will go from 0 to 60 mph by the time we get upstairs. Far from figuring her out, but she is very aware that I study her, but not in the creepy, obsessive way. More like learning the tilt of her head when I say or do something that makes her think about sex with me. Learning that she likes boldness, but would detest me with passion if it came across as a calculated series of events to get sex.

The goal and agenda should be to learn her, and how to move her in subtle ways. If you put this genuine effort into it, and she doesn't reciprocate, that's a whole different discussion.[/QUOTE]
Posted via Mobile Device

Trying2figureitout

Posted via Mobile Device[/QUOTE]

I agree with the boundary statement that's why I plan to see this through to whatever end it takes me. I have not started to state any boundaries until about a month ago. She knows full well what its going to take. Her clock starts ticking from the point we have sex the first time.

I think that is part of the reason we didn't have sex in November...i let that slide albeit with an immediate response on Dec1... she wont get the same leeway this month. Boundaries do need to be enforced. This marriage is either getting fixed or heading to divorce. No in-between limbo junk. Two years was my limit. I will study my wife more... now that her and I are moving forward together.

MEM11363

T2,
Please don't be offended by what I am about to say. If it were me I would invest in a voice activated recorder, a GPS system you can hide in her car AND a private investigator to observe her movements for a week or two. Something feels wrong to me. She keeps herself in incredible shape, tells you she DOES have a sex drive and yet has been in shut down mode with you for 2 years.

I would give it a 50/50 on the affair front. And this is not a critique of you. If she is doing that - it is about her. But unless you have the GPS/VAR/Private investigator - I don't see how you could be so certain she isn't quietly slipping away for an hour or two a few times a week.

I also think the fact she strongly prefers to sit on her own couch is a very, very bad sign. Not connected to adultery. But definitely connected to her emotional link to you. Sorry man.

And my last thought for you is this. It is NOT your responsibility to figure this sex thing out. You have done what she asked for 2 years. The ball is in her court. If it were ME, I would calmly tell her that she is responsible for initiating and needs to do so at least once a week. Of course I would frame it as a question - "are you committed enough to the marriage to do ...."?

And to me any answer other than yes would be a clear answer of where I stood.

I agree with the boundary statement that's why I plan to see this through to whatever end it takes me. I have not started to state any boundaries until about a month ago. She knows full well what its going to take. Her clock starts ticking from the point we have sex the first time.

I think that is part of the reason we didn't have sex in November...i let that slide albeit with an immediate response on Dec1... she wont get the same leeway this month. Boundaries do need to be enforced. This marriage is either getting fixed or heading to divorce. No in-between limbo junk. Two years was my limit. I will study my wife more... now that her and I are moving forward together.[/QUOTE]

Trying2figureitout

[/QUOTE]

Mem..

Not offended at all, I can not in good conscious rule out cheating 100%. I have monitored her phone records daily and identified all numbers and have all real names displayed I know who she calls/texts..no red flag there. Unless she has another phone..doubt it. She has told me that the gym is for "stress" she enjoys it and yes she is a total workout nut. Partly to help with her back and she has vein issues in her legs they clot up if she doesn't work them out she has had multiple surgeries on her legs and treatments very painful clots if she doesn't manage it. For as good of shape as she is in she still has many more physical issues than I do. Also picks up colds more than I do. Something to be said for not overdoing the gym.

If we don't start having regular sex I will take your advice. So far I "trust" my wife but I see where you are coming from. My wife is very social and she is very hot looking for her age. I'm sure she gets attention everywhere she goes. Honestly I would give cheating only about a 20% possibility at some point. But that is still significant. That would be a deal breaker because she would have lied to me about it more than anything else. She has stated "I'm not like that" I asked her the night of the disconnect flat out "Are you cheating?".

The couch thing is she is more comfortable laying down and watching TV her back and sciatic hurt. That couch is situated better for that...plus she gets away from the kids. I think its that mainly that. If I go over she doesn't get annoyed but with her laying down its small its a loveseat size.

As to your third point I may use that if things don't progress I do need to see how far she is willing to go to save this marriage. I feel very positive about this Saturday and next weekend at the Inn on the beach.

Honestly I think most of it has nothing to do with me (Her "reasons" never added up IMO no way should she be this long term disconnected). I believe its childhood trauma considering the sexual molestation allegations of her older sister. Also my wife has TMJ another sign of "abuse" she has never liked BJ's much (smallmouth/jaw hurts). I think I'm paying for her rougher childhood and ex- abusive relationships. Plus Peri-menopausal symptoms. Keep in mind she latched on to me originally she picked me out of a crowd then we had sex on the first date... she wanted get an apartment together after three months and she asked me to marry her after 3 years. So at some point she was hot for me obviously probably because I was nice and not a loser like she dated before. We had our first kid three years in marriage.

Right now I do believe her and I are actually in many ways closer emotionally than ever before. She trusts me fully. She is "trying" now. That is nice to see finally. I feel she will get the hots again as I've really changed for the better. I've upped my sex rank too. I'm enjoying the "chase". It'll make sex that much more grand.

Havesomethingtosay

Maybe this is why she is at the gym..... From a Dan Savage letter.

"I am a 30-year-old woman with a strange problem. I recently started lifting weights, and every time I use the arm machines, I have an orgasm. It is not obvious to anyone else (I think), and my sex life is great outside of the gym. I don't know if I should stop using the machines, because it's rude and kind of weird to have that happening, but it just seems to be a physical reaction to using those muscles. What should I do?

Fitness Freaking

Another 20 reps.

...I got a lot of mail from people who insisted that the letter had to be fake. And maybe it is. But this Savage Love reader isn't the only woman out there who claims to have experienced spontaneous orgasms during exercise. And now science—science!—is on the case:

Anecdotally, some women will talk about having experienced sexual pleasure or orgasm while performing physical exercise, such as sit-ups, weight lifting or other forms of exercise. However, there has been very little scientific research on the topic. Women who are at least 18 years of age are invited to participate in a study about their experiences related to sexual pleasure and/or orgasm during physical exercise. To learn more about this anonymous, online survey, please visit the study web site at:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/womenandexercise

T2FIO really I do hope you find happiness if you are the decent, wonderful, loving person you are, but really is it not time for you to talk to a professional about your issues and why you have gone through this for years upon years with your wife?

Trying2figureitout

For me its a big "whatever" I can know I did my best. I don't need a professional... i just need a resolution one way or another. I've enjoyed every day of my life even through this period so I'm good.

Halien

I do agree with you. In fact, I never verbalize a boundary without enforcing it with extreme predjudice. That's just me. What I was getting at was that the OP seems to be trying to treat this like a project. Well, I'm a certified 6 Sigma Black Belt. If my project involves making people want to buy the car my company builds, the very first step is DEFINE the problem. He did that. Buy my car. For him, its get more sex. The next step is MEASURE. Find out what subtle triggers make a person respond well to a particular car. Measure the tangible characteristics. His wife doesn't live in a nunnery. In the past, there have been things that make her think of sex, and want it. Sounds cold and sterile when its described that way, but I've seen very little description of what works for her. But you are absolutely right. If you say that you expect her to start responding in a way that supports the goal here, it has to start right now, here, with no hedging, or you will do XXXX.

At first, I thought the OP would realize that behaving like Don Quixote would not accomplish anything, and he'd fade into the sunset. The guy is sticking around, and I think he's desperatly trying to fix a very bad situation. And, he's going out of his way to try to help other people who post here. That's commendable. Sometimes, the way to get a person who is very stubbornly committed to one path to take a step back is to adjust your advice to their own apparent way of thinking.

Me, I've always wondered if a person's padded butt actually makes a plodding noise when it hits the curb, followed by the whomp as air rushes out of the lungs on impact. I personally think it would be time to answer this intriguing question, if you get my drift. No disrespect intended, though. We're all different.

Trying2figureitout

I agree this is it my last attempt at a fix... My plan is to give her until end of FEB. If still not where I need to be...then we start heading down the divorce path. I might insist on MC first or I might just file not sure yet.

I already told her we are going one of two directions AND there was another decision point in the future (Which I hoped would go better than the last one... two months plus ago) In essence its a six month window. So I do have an exit plan. My "recovery" plan expires at six months. I am very "project" oriented in my thought process.


All you are right...I don't know my wifes sexual triggers enough. I can be a little obtuse sometimes. I will take the advice to study and probe more into what drives her sexually. For instance I was sure it was libido... I was clueless.

I will not accept a sexless marriage and she knows that. Its her fault at this point if this goes sour. Two years of sexless was my limit. Decision point 1 done heading to #2.

Halien

Sorry if it comes across as not being concerned about your situation - I do have a wierd sense of humor. I just don't think a person deserves to be in a situation where you love someone intensely, and have to put yourself in such a vulnerable position where it becomes like a frantic obsession at times. She has to understand how it affects you. If she thinks you are clueless about how to love her in a way that makes her feel valued, at least she could tell you, or leave.

Maybe you have certain misconceptions about seeing a therapist, but a good one can help us see that we can walk under a cloud of paradigms that would seem completely alien to our wives. Just trying harder along a foreign paradigm will only push us away from the one we are trying to love. You could learn a lot by deconstructing the way you approach this, under the guidance of a therapist, and learning to think like your wife. It could also present you with the irrefutable evidence that your wife is broken beyond hope. The therapist is a guide, and going to one isn't admitting that you are faulty in some way. It might help you navigate this problem.

RDJ

Here is my thought of HER side of the story.

He was not a very good husband for some time, he was neglecting, yelling at her and the kids, used her for sex when he could, not understanding that his actions were what caused her to not want sex.

She hung in there for the sake of the family until she ended up completely disengaged.

He kept pushing for something that she did not feel until she finally came out and told him that she was no longer in love with him.
He freaked out, pushed even harder, and pushed her further away. He finally realized what he was doing, so he tried to play nice. He would do so for a length of time, then try to have sex with her, she would say no because she knew she was being manipulated.

He would then loose it again, threatening, blaming, and expressing that there was something wrong with her for not wanting sex after he “changed”.

But the truth is. He never really changed. Every time she tests him, he fails miserably. He goes right back to manipulating, threatening, expressing that she is all effed up. She has a low libido, she has issues that need to be fixed, she is wrong for not wanting sex with such an awesome guy.

A guy that has tried to fix her in place of fixing himself, sure he acts like he has changed, yet he throws some kind of fit when enough time has passed (in his book) or he is tested. He always proves that he has not really matured, he is still trying every manipulative tactic that he can to tell her that she WILL have sex with him, OR ELSE!

I am starting to think that she wants the marriage, if not she would walk away. She just keeps waiting for him to quit brow beating, manipulating, threatening, and blaming her for the fact that his actions have always, and still are the underlying issue.

Things will change when he shuts up and starts creating a loving, passionate, she is free environment that she can trust!

Think about it, she was trying, she tried to let him give her massages, she tried to let her feeling come back, but every time she does, he wants sex.

He kills it.

Yes it’s been two years, but two years of constant pressure/manipulation of one form or another?

So ttfio, be honest. Is this the real truth?

If so, I’m sorry, but if I were her, I would not be inspired to have sex with you either.

I’m not trying to put you down, how do I know this scenario?

I was this man; I had to change for real. Yes, I too had to get to the point of letting her go, but the reason that made an impact was because she knew that I really had change, she came back to the new man, not the old one.

Think about it, that’s all I ask.

__________________
“Conflict is inevitable, combat is optional.”
Warmly,
RDJ