So ladies... Help! Please interpret this text from my wife from a ladies standpoint.

Havesomethingtosay · 12-09-2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherine602

I wouldn't ask for assistance in the men's section if this were the general state of mind.

I differ with AFEH who thinks he has nothing to learn about being a man from women. That would be fine if he were going to be a monk or was into men. The problem with advocating that men should ignore the input of women is that they do the same thing in their relationships. They call it a success when they ignore the wife for years and then they descend into bitterness and misogyny when their men only attitude makes her cut off sex, cheat or leave their azzzes.

Women put up with the type of man who think women have no influence on the direction of their masculinity until they reach a tipping point and just suddenly stop. Comes as a complete surprise because he thought that the relationship was good because he successfully thwarted her attempt to tell him, a man, what to do.

That 's what May have happened to Trying. Now he is playing catch up trying to learn the aspects of being a man that women can give him. His wife is not a selfish shrew, she is not forgiving him for depleting her in the past. I think she should be kind enough to tell him once and for all that she wants him to leave and not keep him dangling. Women who refuse their husbands are not shrews.

To think that you must take the view that no matter what a man does, he is entitled to regular sex from his wife just because he wants it. Especially the manly men who eskew any female influence. The problem with that old fashioned view is it is obviously not working. If it were, sexless marriages would not be endemic.

If you think getting the comfort of sex from a woman is something you learn from men you are sadly mistaken. Learning sex from men may get you laid. There are women who will settle for these men with no skills for a husband but I'll bet these are the men who fill out the ranks of the sex starved, have a cheating wives or be get dumped within 10 years. Male type sex works if you hook up and don't plan on coming back but it won't get you through a marriage. Accepting some direction from woman, especially about how to have and maintain a sexually satisfying relationship, will go a long way toward developing into a real men.
Posted via Mobile Device

Again, have you followed T2FIO's saga from the beginning or just coming into the fray, not reading about what she has done to him, the lack of affection, no hugs, kisses, acknowledgement or intimacy (not sex) and at least one incident where he was treated as a cuckold for not just the 2 years since ILYBNILWY, but for many many years (if you believe him)?

Now I have been as vocal and nasty as anyone about his plan, his letters, his demands and actions as anyone. But this certainly sounds like a mutually destructive relationship.

If you haven't, then you could not begin to understand why and what I posted.

RDJ · 12-09-2011, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havesomethingtosay

Again, have you followed T2FIO's saga from the beginning or just coming into the fray, not reading about what she has done to him, the lack of affection, no hugs, kisses, acknowledgement or intimacy (not sex) and at least one incident where he was treated as a cuckold for not just the 2 years since ILYBNILWY, but for many many years (if you believe him)?

Now I have been as vocal and nasty as anyone about his plan, his letters, his demands and actions as anyone. But this certainly sounds like a mutually destructive relationship.

If you haven't, then you could not begin to understand why and what I posted.

Havesomethingtosay,

I don't disagree with you. There is no question that she is mis-treating T2, she appears, at minimum, bitter.

The point I was trying to express was could she be bitter due to built up resentment towards T2. Resentment that she clearly needs to let go of. But could he be making it harder for her through his continued actions?

The letter, the comments about no presents, expressing she has a low labido issue, expressing that they will have sex on his terms or the marriage will end.

If she was already bitter when she expressed the ILYBNILWY, have his actions inspired her to love him, or given her more reasons to continue resenting him?

Assuming this may be the case, would his treating her better for x amount of months remove that bitterness? Unlikely when he gets frustrated and comes back with more of the same.

Not to throw T2 under the bus here, but to think that during those months of backing down, there were not attitudes, little digs, subtle comments, looks, or behaviors that did not express his unhappiness and frustration (perfectly norman on his part) with her. To me, is most likely unrealistic. In other words, has he been throwing gas on the fire?

Again, if this is the case, she needs to learn to let go of the past. She needs to invest in the marriage as much as him. But he would first need to quit throwing gas on the fire long enough for her to think possitive of him.

He no doubt has to set some serious boundaries, but she is not going to listen to any of them if she is continually pi$$ed off at him. No woman wants to have sex with a man she is pi$$ed off at! I'm sure there are many here that would agree?

Is this the case for T2? He would know better than I, I simply asked that he consider it.

Wheather you agree or not, does that help clear up my thoughts?

MEM11363 · 12-09-2011, 09:30 PM

T2,
Let me be the first to say that right now it must be difficult for you to read through all this conflicting advice and figure out what makes sense and what doesn't.

I am going to try to give you a few things to think about. The first is that a regular sex life (loosely at minimum once a week) is a "normal" part of a healthy marriage. You shouldn't have to be perfect or a world class chess player/genius puzzle solver to figure out how to get your W to have sex with you. She has directly told you that in the basic day to day stuff you are doing everything she asked.

At a glance, if she cared about how YOU felt, she would WANT to please you. But I think somehow you have created a very bad dynamic where she doesn't really respect you and is very turned off by some of your behaviors.

While I think you are factually honest, your perceptions of subjective situations seem quite inaccurate. For example, you have aggressively claimed victory several times and boasted about how your clever approach "solved" your intimacy problems. Totally separate from this sex problem, if you generally behave in that manner in daily life your W does not like it. In fact is likely very turned off by it. A confident man has no need to loudly declare victory prematurely.

And without meaning to, I think you send her a LOT of mixed messages. For instance you describe a period of time during which you stopped saying "ILY" to her. This was the beginning of you "lowering the temperature". And yet during that same time you were getting up at 5 AM and making her breakfast every day which is a serious act of service/demonstration of love.

After all this time I also think the way you talk about the expected outcome is not consistent with enforcing boundaries. It is consistent with believing you are entitled to tell your W what to do.

You were a bit angry at one of the posters here the other day and made a sarcastic comment about what all the "tough guys" here would really do if they were in your shoes.

Let me give you an example of boundary enforcement vs. trying to tell a spouse what to do. But ultimately ALL boundary enforcement is predicated on a single foundational concept: The willingness to walk away if your partner can't respect your boundaries.

One of my boundaries is that I will not stay with a spouse who does not love me and prioritize my needs. My W has the same boundary. Generally neither of us even gets near that boundary line with the other.

You have had about 20 years to figure your W out. What is it you think you are going to learn between now and February? Have you really/truly thought about what it will take for her to respect you?

Instead of tolerating sex 15 times a year, did you ever try to figure out why she didn't especially like sex? Because that frequency was the minimum she knew you would tolerate without tension/conflict. It wasn't something she particularly liked. And I say that because if she HAD liked it, it would have been a LOT more frequent than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trying2figureitout

RDJ... Point well taken. Perhaps it is me and my approach. I do believe my wife does want to stay married (She has stated if she didn't she'd be gone) I just don't know... I'm trying my best and multiple times I have "Gone with he flow" for up to 6 months... just loving on her and not saying a word or getting upset. Its hard when there is such sporadic sex to tolerate past six months without saying anything.

Let me make a correction... I never have yelled at my wife.

So just shut off my sex drive is the answer then and just tolerate if forever right?

I don't know.. guess I'll find out over the next few weeks and then decide what to do... maybe you are right RDJ.

its obviously some thing ...Perhaps it is me and my actions and I'm the reason she can't fall in love again yet. Boy this is hard so many angles to consider.

But at what point does she bear some responsibility.... positive reinforcement helps you know.

Havesomethingtosay · 12-09-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDJ

Havesomethingtosay,

I don't disagree with you. There is no question that she is mis-treating T2, she appears, at minimum, bitter.

The point I was trying to express was could she be bitter due to built up resentment towards T2. Resentment that she clearly needs to let go of. But could he be making it harder for her through his continued actions?

The letter, the comments about no presents, expressing she has a low labido issue, expressing that they will have sex on his terms or the marriage will end.

If she was already bitter when she expressed the ILYBNILWY, have his actions inspired her to love him, or given her more reasons to continue resenting him?

Assuming this may be the case, would his treating her better for x amount of months remove that bitterness? Unlikely when he gets frustrated and comes back with more of the same.

Not to throw T2 under the bus here, but to think that during those months of backing down, there were not attitudes, little digs, subtle comments, looks, or behaviors that did not express his unhappiness and frustration (perfectly norman on his part) with her. To me, is most likely unrealistic. In other words, has he been throwing gas on the fire?

Again, if this is the case, she needs to learn to let go of the past. She needs to invest in the marriage as much as him. But he would first need to quit throwing gas on the fire long enough for her to think possitive of him.

He no doubt has to set some serious boundaries, but she is not going to listen to any of them if she is continually pi$$ed off at him. No woman wants to have sex with a man she is pi$$ed off at! I'm sure there are many here that would agree?

Is this the case for T2? He would know better than I, I simply asked that he consider it.

Wheather you agree or not, does that help clear up my thoughts?

You are absolutely right. I have been sarcastic in my comments and the back and forths with T2FIO. The two of them currently if we are to believe what has been written live in as toxic, cruel and nasty relationship as can be, with T2FIO treated as rubbish and him retaliating with ridiculous statements, notes and expectation. They don't even talk face to face (usually only texts and his letters). Forget her complete lack of intimacy, hugs, kisses..... And don't for a second think that I don't think he has brought it on himself.

Poor T2FIO, thinks he has solved a rubics cube, while his wife has treated him with such derision for years on end.

The two need intense psychological counseling.

Catherine602 · 12-09-2011, 10:38 PM

HSTS I have read Trying's post for some time. I have commented in many of the threads he started. My response was mostly in response to AFEH's criticism of him for posting in the Ladies section and accusation that he was sucking up to women. To me, it is a shaming tactic and sophomoric . He is troubled enough - he does not need useless coments like a grade school boy telling him "yooouu play with girls na na na na naaaaa na".

He has gotten some of the cruelest and most spiteful responses from men that I have ever read on TAM. Why? He is desperate for any help. He does not listen to man nor woman and that may be a clue to the problems between hIm e and his wife.

They are not comprehending each other; they are each on a parallel track with a two- way radio for communication - each talking at each other at the same time and thinking the other is not listening. It is a complex problem that needs major intervention .

I happen to think she is cheating. Call me paranoid but 2 hrs at a gym is strange for a woman who has no time for her husband.

I don't think that demonizing his wife or dismissing a womans input is helpful. Trying's troubled marriage is not a tableau of the battle between the sexes. It is unique to those two people and as intractable as it seems to be, the solution is not to shoot the beotch.
Posted via Mobile Device

MEM11363 · 12-09-2011, 11:02 PM

I think she is cheating as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherine602

HSTS I have read Trying's post for some time. I have commented in many of the threads he started. My response was mostly in response to AFEH's criticism of him for posting in the Ladies section and accusation that he was sucking up to women. To me, it is a shaming tactic and sophomoric . He is troubled enough - he does not need useless coments like a grade school boy telling him "yooouu play with girls na na na na naaaaa na".

He has gotten some of the cruelest and most spiteful responses from men that I have ever read on TAM. Why? He is desperate for any help. He does not listen to man nor woman and that may be a clue to the problems between hIm e and his wife.

They are not comprehending each other; they are each on a parallel track with a two- way radio for communication - each talking at each other at the same time and thinking the other is not listening. It is a complex problem that needs major intervention .

I happen to think she is cheating. Call me paranoid but 2 hrs at a gym is strange for a woman who has no time for her husband.

I don't think that demonizing his wife or dismissing a womans input is helpful. Trying's troubled marriage is not a tableau of the battle between the sexes. It is unique to those two people and as intractable as it seems to be, the solution is not to shoot the beotch.
Posted via Mobile Device

Trying2figureitout · 12-09-2011, 11:06 PM

Wow... lots to consider you all are great.

Let me just say RDJ.. you are the man I really took your advice to heart today.

I don't want to jinx anything so I'm going to wait and see BUT i think what I did today will be the final step to resolving sexlessness in my marriage.

Stay tuned. I'll give you all an update after the weekend. I have to concentrate to tomorrow etc.

I like the ladies lounge..there is good advice here and the best of the male posters follow me over here anyhow. I'm one of those people follow no matter where I post. Thanks.

I think a lot of you have the wrong picture of me and my wife's internal relationship that's probably my fault for being a little extreme posting.

She is not cheating. We are getting along great. Likely to have sex tomorrow.
My wife had issues they are melting away everyday.

Havesomethingtosay · 12-10-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trying2figureitout

Wow... lots to consider you all are great.

Let me just say RDJ.. you are the man I really took your advice to heart today.

I don't want to jinx anything so I'm going to wait and see BUT i think what I did today will be the final step to resolving sexlessness in my marriage.

Stay tuned. I'll give you all an update after the weekend. I have to concentrate to tomorrow etc.

I like the ladies lounge..there is good advice here and the best of the male posters follow me over here anyhow. I'm one of those people follow no matter where I post. Thanks.

I think a lot of you have the wrong picture of me and my wife's internal relationship that's probably my fault for being a little extreme posting.

She is not cheating. We are getting along great. Likely to have sex tomorrow.
My wife had issues they are melting away everyday.

But you don't even talk directly to each other (texts, email & letters). I really am at a lost, and while transfixed at your posts (the reason I signed up on TAM), you still have not had a true conversation with her. Whether you are an egotistical, blind sob or a pathetic wimp of a husband, I really can not decide.

Maybe you two deserve each other.

Trying2figureitout · 12-10-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havesomethingtosay

But you don't even talk directly to each other (texts, email & letters). I really am at a lost, and while transfixed at your posts (the reason I signed up on TAM), you still have not had a true conversation with her. Whether you are an egotistical, blind sob or a pathetic wimp of a husband, I really can not decide.

Maybe you two deserve each other.

We talk all the time. Yes I have talked to her about our situation the issue is she will be ok for a while then she shuts down. My wife saves every letter and e-mail... for me that works to get through to her. Its working so chill. She re-reads the letters and the e-mails...they sink in without the emotions involved. I've seen her cry at a letter never in conversation. Letters speak to her heart.

If this "pathetic wimp" turns his sex life around in about two years and creates a great marriage again.. then what am I?

I don't think I'm any of what you call me... I'm simply a dedicated husband trying his best to keep the family together and to have a decent normal sex life with my wife. My methods have been questionable by some... for me though they will be a solution.

It is working... we will have a decent sex life soon and it will be the best ever for us. You all need to chill out. I know what I'm doing... yes I've made mistakes but who hasn't. Also if you are not or haven't been through a sexless marriage you have NO IDEA what it is like. So understand that also. My wife is very lucky it's me I'm very patient and committed to this marriage. She WILL come around soon. I give her another 30 days if I were basing it on what is happening... she is almost there.

You all will miss me once my marriage gets fixed so enjoy the drama now I enjoy all of you even the hecklers. I'll put the entire plan up before I leave for future benefit...lots I've left out. I will beat out RDJ in time of repair by many months... he has been invaluable to me lately as has Judith.

My wife was quite possibly the hardest nut to crack also. IMO.

I'm good have a nice day everyone. Even HaveSomething.

Please don't berate my wife. She has issues as anyone does. i don't have a problem with her so neither should any of you. Attack me if you want leave her out of it. Most of this is my fault I'm remedying it now.

Mrs. T · 12-10-2011, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trying2figureitout

You all know this "recovery" is not on any schedule...when it happens it happens. All I know is that everyday I'm getting closer to the solution. I won't consider it a success until her and I are back to regular sex at an approximate weekly schedule over a six month period.

At least I feel normal and sex is not on my mind... so there is no urgency from that perspective. The longer this drags out that will change. I think it's about 75% that we will survive this to my satisfaction based on current events.

Sex is not on your mind?? I'd say that's really all your concerned with and it certainly does sound pretty scheduled...This Saturday...sex, and the Saturday after that...and the Saturday after that...I'm really curious how you managed to get her to miraculously change her willingness and outlook on sex from not wanting it at all to agreeing to perform every Saturday.

Havesomethingtosay · 12-10-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. T

Sex is not on your mind?? I'd say that's really all your concerned with and it certainly does sound pretty scheduled...This Saturday...sex, and the Saturday after that...and the Saturday after that...I'm really curious how you managed to get her to miraculously change her willingness and outlook on sex from not wanting it at all to agreeing to perform every Saturday.

Quit feeding the monster (yes I'm guilty too

. Of course you make sense, but I have to say as a normal male, yes sex is always on our minds, so I can't laugh at T2FIO for that, just the way he expresses it like a maniac on TAM and has in letters to his wife.

Trying2figureitout · 12-10-2011, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. T

Sex is not on your mind?? I'd say that's really all your concerned with and it certainly does sound pretty scheduled...This Saturday...sex, and the Saturday after that...and the Saturday after that...I'm really curious how you managed to get her to miraculously change her willingness and outlook on sex from not wanting it at all to agreeing to perform every Saturday.

Just so you know I adjusted that via two new emails that I have not disclosed here based partly on what RDJ said.

I don't know for sure if I'm going to have sex tonight... and I don't care. My latest emails take this in a slightly different direction but I don't want to jinx it. So I think there is a very high probability we still have sex tonight or next weekend at the beach inn and then fairly regularly afterwards eventually to a normal frequency in the middle of our drives plus more variety i may actually get a full BJ one day from her. I'm 99.98% certain in a fairly short period her and i will no longer be living in a 'sexless" marriage.... so stay tuned. I will explain everything later in detail. I am not a monster.

Let me give you a hint... money talks.

Just kidding.

RDJ · 12-10-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. T

Sex is not on your mind?? I'd say that's really all your concerned with and it certainly does sound pretty scheduled...This Saturday...sex, and the Saturday after that...and the Saturday after that...I'm really curious how you managed to get her to miraculously change her willingness and outlook on sex from not wanting it at all to agreeing to perform every Saturday.

I have to agree!

T2,

The odds are that you did not just come up with a miracle that is going to get you sex on a weekly basis. If you went to her and expressed that you knew you were responsible for her actions, she may show some signs of relief. She may even feel so happy that you "get it" that she has sex with you???

But even if she does, what are you going to do next week, the week after, and every week from now on?

If you are baseing your happiness on weekly sex, the first time she she does not comply, you will be a wreck again, she will know it, and you will go right back to square one.

You keep thinking that you have solved the problem, when you do, you set yourself up for failure. There is NO quick magic solution, your solution will come with your changing, your learning to become the man that inspires her sexual side on a consistant basis. That in itself is your best shot, but not a for sure thing, she also has some serious changes to make. That may come in time, but it wont if you don't make serious changes first.

Relax, your heading the right direction, but it's going to take time.

that_girl · 12-10-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havesomethingtosay

Again, have you followed T2FIO's saga from the beginning or just coming into the fray, not reading about what she has done to him, the lack of affection, no hugs, kisses, acknowledgement or intimacy (not sex) and at least one incident where he was treated as a cuckold for not just the 2 years since ILYBNILWY, but for many many years (if you believe him)?

Now I have been as vocal and nasty as anyone about his plan, his letters, his demands and actions as anyone. But this certainly sounds like a mutually destructive relationship.

If you haven't, then you could not begin to understand why and what I posted.

I do agree.

Nothing has worked for him.

She has the control, and knows it.

I don't know where the breaking point is...but dang...

Mrs. T · 12-10-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havesomethingtosay

Quit feeding the monster (yes I'm guilty too

. Of course you make sense, but I have to say as a normal male, yes sex is always on our minds, so I can't laugh at T2FIO for that, just the way he expresses it like a maniac on TAM and has in letters to his wife.

ok Something...I understand the male sex drive, really. I am a woman but my sex drive is basically on the same level as a man's (twice a day and I'm content). I also understand sex is a major part of a healthy marriage. My husband's sex drive has declined much in the last year and a half so I know the frustrations involved when you feel unfulfilled, unsatisfied. Taking all that into account I guess the thing that rubs me wrong here is T2FIO's talk of letters and texting and "plans"...like he has this all mapped out complete with timeline. I know we live in an age of texting and emails but in something as important as a marriage...whatever happened to good old take my hand and sit me down communication? If my husband used texting as a means of working out our sexual issues I'd flush his phone down the toilet.

T2FIO...perhaps I should apologise for being offensive but something about your tactics got under my skin and rubbed me wrong.