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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:15 PM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

Would you care to elaborate as to why you feel this way about your job?

My wife has hated every job she ever worked. Similar attitude to what you described. Took me a while to figure out that it is not the job or people, but rather, wife's attitude and expectations.

Right now she has the dream job. Two days a week real work, three days relax work. Easy job. Work from home. Six figures. She still is not happy.

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:36 PM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

Hates to do housework, hates to do go to work......

Exactly what is it you do like to do?

Husband bad, job bad, housework bad.......

Hmmm. I think I see a patten.

Maybe you can address what's so bad about your job? Or why you are unwilling too do housework with no job?

Your husband sounds pretty reasonable to me.

You're in the car crying about going to work. I know there are tough jobs out there. Could we have a hint what this one is?
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:48 PM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

Hello,

I think you should take the voluntarily lay off so that you still have an income. Make sure you have insurance under your husband. Start applying to other jobs. Quit the housekeeping service and take care of all of that yourself (dishes, cooking, cleaning). As someone mentioned here that it would only take at least an hour or 2 of your day. And strategize like swiffer sweeper, use a dish washer to wash, hot pot/slow cook all your foods. Since you own a home, then you can rent a room out to a respectable quiet student for added income.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 12:24 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

I think you should explain it to your husband exactly as you did in the first post--you laid it out pretty well there. To appease your husband, cutting out the cleaning service in the meantime sounds like a good compromise. Keep in mind that it takes a few weeks to get that first unemployment check. Are things so tight that he's worried that this one expense is going to break you guys? You may want to come up with a few more ways to cut back to help him feel ok with it. But I definitely think you need to take the layoff... I think you need the break, just for your own mental health.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 01:42 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

One other thing I was thinking about for you - I would check out the book "His Needs Her Needs" by Dr. Harley from Marriage Builders ¬ģ - Successful Marriage Advice. They have a radio show you can listen to on your phone and the other day I was listening and the Dr. was talking about how there are tons of emotional needs but the once important for romantic love fall into about 10 categories. Things like affection, sexual fulfillment, intimate conversation, recreational companionship, financial support, domestic support, admiration, etc...

What's interesting, is that of the top 10, men and women most frequently pick the opposite 5. The overlap, of course, and most people have a need for all of them, but Men's top two are usually sexual fulfillment and recreational companionship whereas women's are most frequently intimate conversation and affection.

Not for nothing, but FINANCIAL SUPPORT is most often desired by women and DOMESTIC SUPPORT is most often desired by men. That kind of fits your situation in that your H seems to have a strong desire for you to take on more household chores if you're not working, even if really you can afford to pay someone else. It may be a need/desire he has, to be domestically cared for by you, that he does not really even understand. Or it just sounds irrational to say "i don't care if we can afford a housekeeper I want you keeping the house while I'm financially supporting us." Just as you have a need for him to say "I cannot stand for my wife to be so unhappy when we can get by with less money. Of course I will support her while she finds work that does not make her miserable."

Anyhow, I thought that might interest you.
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 01:53 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

You're hanging a lot on your certification. I can understand the desire to wait until you have it to job search (I'm also half a year away from a certification) but if I were so bloody miserable in my job I'd tailor my cv to indicate how far away I was from achieving it (time wise) and I'd start looking today. Would a new employer have to pay or is the program already paid for? This would make a difference, potentially. I paid my own way so I don't feel beholden to any company.

If it's a dead cert you'll be certified in a certain time-frame, I'd suggest looking now. Unless there is some particular reason to wait that you have not yet expressed?

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 05:50 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

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Originally Posted by drakeness View Post
I broached the topic with my husband, and he was less than receptive. He is worried about the risk (so am I) and thinks the financial risk is too great. He also indicated that he would expect us to fire our twice monthly house cleaner, and that I would take on burden of doing all vacuuming, dusting and toilet scrubbing. I told him I was able to keep that in the budget and that I wanted to focus all my energy on finding a job. I also didn’t want to become the person responsible for all the chores simply because I wasn’t working, because my job would be to FIND a job. He said that was probably a deal breaker.
While your first priority would be to find another job, it's doesn't take 8 hours a day, every single day, 5 days a week. And it certainly doesn't make it impossible to do laundry or scrub a toilet, dust and vacuum or cook a meal for dinner while you're doing it.

Secondly, it's absolutely ludicrous to have other people doing your housecleaning when you're HOME to do it yourself. Unless you two have tons of expendable income and a yacht parked down at the harbor, there's not ONE viable reason for you not to be doing all the work at home if you're not working OUTSIDE the home. Your argument just makes you sound incredibly lazy.

Quote:
Here’s where my thoughts are. I feel like he is placing my economic worth (both my earnings and chores) over my mental well-being. I want to tell him that, but I also want to tell him that I don’t want to be in a marriage where my economic worth is the most important factor. I also don’t want to be in a marriage where he thinks that my career choice is a joint decision. And for the record, if our positions were reversed, I’d want him to pick that path that allows him to be happy. Our marriage needs to strengthen or I don’t think we are going to make it.
Your career choice SHOULD be your decision, 100%. You're working towards that goal and will have your certificate in June. While you're accomplishing that, you want to take a left turn which is ok, too. You just need to realize that if you're not going to be bringing in a paycheck, it's not fair to be wasting money on cleaning personnel when you're fully capable of doing it yourself. You're not a special snowflake.

I've worked at one or two jobs I despised so much I'd actually swore under my breath from the second I got out of my car, walked across the parking lot, went through the front doors and all the way through the office to my desk. People probably saw my lips moving and thought I was a freakin' lunatic. I would have given anything to NOT to have to show up there each day and wanting to hang myself from the first convenient light fixture in the office - just like you feel. And if it were possible for me to escape the place and take a layoff package and the price at home would be taking over the domestic chores while searching for a better job, I would have been ALL over that like a hobo on a hotdog.

Rework your financial plan excluding the decadence of unnecessary house cleaners this time around, and reapproach the subject again with him.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 06:48 PM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

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Originally Posted by drakeness View Post
I need some clarification on boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums. I want to set a clear boundary, but I donít want it to become an ultimatum.

The situations: My husband and I are both employed full time at the same company. For him, itís the company he wanted to work at since he was a young boy. He gets frustrated with his job, but for him, itís working. I, on the other hand, am miserable at work. Bone crushing, mind-meltingly miserable and have been for several years. I have tried changing my jobs inside the company, furthering my education, and multiple coping skills through years of therapy. I plan on leaving the company sometime this year once I am done with a new professional certificate that I working on.

To describe my misery, I am recovering from an eating disorder and I am so unhappy I canít bring myself to eat at work (clearly, a step backwards). I spend 20 minutes in my car each morning giving myself a pep talk to even go into the office. I cry in my car at the end of the day. I struggle to not cry at work. I have anxiety dreams about work. When I mean miserable, I mean deep depressing misery, not just your usual unhappiness at work.

Our company is offering Voluntary Lay Off this year where you get a week of pay for each year or service at the company. After that, you are eligible for unemployment. I ran the numbers with our budget, and I think that we would be absolutely fine and still be able to save money each month. I was elated, because itís a way out! Then I could focus all my energy on the job search and perfecting the technical skills for the certificate I am earning.

I broached the topic with my husband, and he was less than receptive. He is worried about the risk (so am I) and thinks the financial risk is too great. He also indicated that he would expect us to fire our twice monthly house cleaner, and that I would take on burden of doing all vacuuming, dusting and toilet scrubbing. I told him I was able to keep that in the budget and that I wanted to focus all my energy on finding a job. I also didnít want to become the person responsible for all the chores simply because I wasnít working, because my job would be to FIND a job. He said that was probably a deal breaker.

We still have some thinking to do, but I think he is ultimately going to tell me that while he wants me to be happy, I need to keep working because we canít bear the financial risk. He has already told me that when we bought our house, we made a financial agreement and we have plans to save money for our future (fun things, like a back yard or new cars). Thatís the most important thing.

Hereís where my thoughts are. I feel like he is placing my economic worth (both my earnings and chores) over my mental well-being. I want to tell him that, but I also want to tell him that I donít want to be in a marriage where my economic worth is the most important factor. I also donít want to be in a marriage where he thinks that my career choice is a joint decision. And for the record, if our positions were reversed, Iíd want him to pick that path that allows him to be happy. Our marriage needs to strengthen or I donít think we are going to make it.

Is this an ultimatum? I donít want it to be ďYou wonít let me take Voluntary Layoff, so now Iím going to threaten to leave you.Ē I want him to know that I am very upset about how he values my well being, and thatís Iím not okay with that. Its also not okay with him thinking he gets to decide which job I take (or donít take) based off its salary alone (thatís a different conversation we have had).

Yes, we are in counseling already. I donít know if its working. Iím in my own counseling, and it is working.
I personally think a risky career choice/change SHOULD be a joint decision since being married has a direct impact on each person's financial troubles. If your credit tanks, so does his kind of deal. I think you should follow your heart and not be miserable, but I don't think you should be approaching this as a take it or leave it situation. As for the monthly Hird help, you should stop using that. It's only fair that if you expect him to get on board with your wants than his wants and concerns should be as equally important to you too. If stopping the maid service will give him more security for you to quit your old job, then I think you should do it. Everything is a compromise in marriage (good ones anyway). And I seriously doubt cleaning and vacuuming and dusting is going to prevent you from finding a new job. I have two kids, I'm married, im in university, and I work, and I take care of our home (husband does help though).

For your mental health - leave that job, for his mental health - consider his feelings and fears.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 08:04 PM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

Your husband is doing what is best for you by trying to keep you working and busy.
By your own admission you are depressed. You don't like working inside or outside the home--- its obvious.
I doubt any job you apply for you will be happy with. If you quit and stay home, you'll find 10,000 reasons not to go back to work, and your husband will gradually become more and more resentful of carrying the full load while you bellyache about depression and how he does nothing but give you trouble about your lack of any effort in the home or anything else. You start hating your husband, and your marriage goes down the tubes in a death spiral.
You won't answer any questions about why you hate your job, so I'll ask one more question.

I don't know you or your situation; my "prediction" is hopefully total bulls&$.
It is, right?

My favorite quote "I've found a way to include that in the budget".
I'll bet you did. It was YOUR budget, without his input, that includes you not working.

I hope I have it all wrong.
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 11:12 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

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Originally Posted by drakeness View Post
On the topic of the house cleaning I can respect that I come across as a princess. The reason we hired a house cleaner in the first place was to help alleviate stress on the marriage. We would spend our free time cleaning the house and fighting over who was doing what. Its a consistent sticking point in our marriage
I disagree that the house cleaner makes OP sound like a princess. I have had the very same discussion with my wife. We historically argued about who was doing what in terms of chores. I proposed that we have an established chore list and agree on what is a fair division of household labor, but she wasn't OK with this idea *bangs head on wall*. In the end, hiring a house cleaner mitigated our conflict, and I would recommend this service for any household that can afford it. Unfortunately for me, we haven't been able to find a reliable cleaner so I'm still stuck with most of the chores. *sigh* I digress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drakeness View Post
I can very easily see it becoming a situation where I am responsible for 100% of the house chores because I am not bringing in a paycheck. I'm not okay with that, because its his house too.
Ignoring unemployment benefits, you will have a temporary income stream given your tenure at the firm. So, why not propose that you keep the cleaning service for the duration of that income, allowing you to focus on your job search? When that income runs out, if you've found a job then resume working and continue paying for house cleaning.

If you can't find a job in that timeframe, it's completely reasonable that you assume the household responsibilities in you're not employed. Being unwilling to do so after allowed a month or two of dedicated time for a job search would be unfair, and makes you seem as a princess who can't be troubled with getting her hands dirty; those manicures are expensive.

By the way, I think it's a mistake to wait until June (certificate completion) to apply for jobs. You need to do it before then. Maybe not now, but definitely before June.


Last edited by _anonymous_; 02-03-2017 at 11:54 AM.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 11:43 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

I think that your plan is unreasonable. I think you are emotionally manipulating him by saying and even thinking that he is putting your economic value over your mental health. If you think so low of him why are you with him? You have been at this job for years and you can't work a few more months? It sounds irrational to me.

Your putting all your eggs in one basket (this certificate). I think it's better and safer to operative in a Way like I don't have it until it's in my hand sort of way, there is always a possibility that you don't get it then your screwed. You need to plan for the worst case scenario Bc sh*t happens.

There is absolutely no reason why you can't look for a job now. Looking takes minutes. There is no excuse to this. I think you should already have a few job possibilities lined up before you even get the certificate. And as June approaches I see no reason why you can't even go on interviews. This way when June comes up, you can volunteer for layoff, and start a new job within a couple weeks. It absolutely does not make sense to start your job search after you are jobless. On top of you can't clean the house. So ridiculous. You are very manipulative, your clearly trying to max your time without a job while doing minimal housework then turn around and paint your husband is a very nasty light.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 08:53 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

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Thank you for all the replies, I appreciate the comments. I will take them all under consideration.


It's getting near June. Any updates? How's the certification and the job search going?
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 09:39 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

Here's a thought...if you have changed jobs internally several times but still weren't happy, how is changing companies going to be any different?
If you have firmly decided that you hate that particular company, how do you know you won't decide the same thing at a new company .
If you are capable of Deciding it's impossible to be happy there, are you not capable of deciding it's really okay? It's not who you are, is it? What about the rest of your life? What is the purpose of a job in the first place? Don't you decide that?
And I'm very curious...exactly what is it you hate so much about the company?
If it's people related, that will follow you everywhere. And you are in a position to learn how to deal with them. Or not. My theory is never leave for that reason. Unless you are slaughtering animals and it's against your moral values to do so type of thing.
You have all the options in the world.
I bet you could even alter your lifestyle and go work as a house cleaner part time. There is great immediate satisfaction in cleaning. Seeing a job done, the taking care of yourself and your environment, nourishing and feeding your body, the act of immersing yourself in the tasks.
Or spend all your energy fighting what is necessary to merely even live in society.


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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 11:13 AM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

I would just quit. No job is worth that kind of misery, and there are other jobs out there. Plus if you are about to be credentialed, you'll have a whole new set to choose from.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 12:59 PM
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Re: Boundaries, expectations, and ultimatums

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The main point is I feel like he is choosing my paycheck over my mental health. I'm not okay with that.

On the topic of the house cleaning I can respect that I come across as a princess. The reason we hired a house cleaner in the first place was to help alleviate stress on the marriage. We would spend our free time cleaning the house and fighting over who was doing what. The house cleaner has helped us not be at each others throats about who's turn it is to clean something. Even now, we struggle with the concept where we each think we are doing more of the chores than the other person. "I did the dishes last night." "Yeah, but you didn't wash the pots and pans, so those are still yours to do." or "You didn't do the dishes." "Well, I washed all the laundry today, doesn't that count for something?" "That's nice, but the dishes still need to be done." Chores seem to be our preferred battleground.

Its a consistent sticking point in our marriage, and I can very easily see it becoming a situation where I am responsible for 100% of the house chores because I am not bringing in a paycheck. I'm not okay with that, because its his house too.
Drake ness,

Here's your problem. How is your mental health going to be if you take the risk and quit the job and you two can't pay your bills, lose what you have, or have to give up things you now can afford to do. And how will HIS mental health be coping with that and how will his mental health affect your marriage.

Many many people hate their jobs, yet family obligations and the financial well being of the family unit makes it necessary to suck it up. Many people probably know folks who quit jobs to "pursue" their dream and when that dream job or thing does not work out, their marriage crumbles because of the resentment, mental stress, and arguing.

Just saying its not as simple as hubby just caring about your paycheck. Along with that paycheck also comes the stability of making ends meet. You may have to quit anyway but you need to be aware it m Ishtar not be such as smooth transition.
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