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post #31 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 08:19 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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Originally Posted by Keke24 View Post
I've had sex with and without the emotional connection. For a long time I heard my guy friends reference this emotional connection as the reason why they weren't interested in ONS but never really felt it until more recently.

I started feeling the emotional connection with my partner when he began forcing me to look into his eyes when we had sex, preventing me from hiding away when I was about to cum and adding more sensual touches during sex eg whispering in my ear, kissing my neck, the back of my knees, inner thighs etc. Together, I shied away from these (particularly eye contact) during sex because they made me feel very vulnerable and I was not comfortable being open to exploring that in the past.

We have the nastiest sex ever, very seldom do we 'make love' but there's still the underlying emotional connection. I could be on my leash getting a spanking, or getting mounted and spat on in front of the mirror and the connection is there, so strong it brings me to tears some times. I use my body to show him how I want to be used, how eager I am to be taken by him and I trust him to not take advantage of my vulnerability in those moments. It's an unspoken agreement, a bond that's not always palpable but ever present. So the connection is a combination of familiarity, openness, vulnerability and unabashed pleasure.
I have to try the looking in the eye thing. I have a feeling it would freak my wife out...I can't often look people in the eyes when I speak to them, during sex, this might be even stranger...What happens if one person bursts out laughing? :-)

Thanks for the honest opinion.

PS: what's ONS? Couldn't find it in the acronym thread.

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post #32 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 08:53 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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I have to try the looking in the eye thing. I have a feeling it would freak my wife out...I can't often look people in the eyes when I speak to them, during sex, this might be even stranger...What happens if one person bursts out laughing? :-)

Thanks for the honest opinion.

PS: what's ONS? Couldn't find it in the acronym thread.

One night stand (ONS).

Lol, that's a funny image. I love moments of laughter during sex, it lightens the mood. So even that response may not be a bad thing. I think depending on what she sees on your face, it may freak her out. When I look at my partner's face I see him trying to communicate his awe of my body and his love for me in the moment. I see a deeper part of his personality in those moments and that's what makes it special.

If a guy does the looking in the eyes thing in an weird way where it's clear he's not even 100% comfortable with it himself, I can see that being very awkward lolol.
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post #33 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 08:56 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

That being said, I recall having a very satisfying one night stand. The connection was there however. We ended up in a deep, open conversation about life and sex that morphed into us drawing closer and closer to one another as the night progressed and opposed to drunken wildness, I got an amazing hot oil massage and pretty good sex.
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post #34 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:11 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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So you agree that what's acted out in porn is very similar to what women actually like during sex in real life? That's all I was saying. I wasn't arguing about the merits of porn as a business. The only difference is that porn is 'acting' and done for material gain, like any job, and real life is done for...I dunno, 'love' I guess. Can you not see how this can come across as hypocritical when at the same time women keep saying how disgusting and completely detached from reality porn is?

...

Yes, our views i am sure are coloured by personal experience. I can only say that once you love someone, you love the whole package: every extra pound of fat, every muscle tone, cellulite, whatever comes with that person. Perhaps men do talk superficially about women that they don't know or don't especially care about (who they are not in a relationship with) - just like some women discuss size of penises among each other - but when you love someone, you don't usually think about minor imperfections and are attracted to the person and everything that comes with it.
As to the first bolded....I don't really think you are ever going to "get" this topic. You clearly don't really want to see anything except your own opinion about it. You keep trying and trying to discuss it, but you really are only trying to convince others of your point of view. You are not actually seeing their point of view.

I'll make it very blunt and easy for you....this is from my own real experience....if I'm honest and tell any man I'm with that if I really want to watch porn, its going to be BIG BLACK C*CK porn, and plenty of it, and they are free to watch with me if they want but if they utter even the tiniest bit of protest or seem to feel insecure about what I'm watching, then I'm going to berate them and ask them how dare they judge me and tell them they obviously have nothing to worry about as this is just something I enjoy for a quick orgasm release....oh of course I'm not lusting after those men's bodies and of course I'm not imagining f*cking those huge c*cks (this part would be lies)....I promise you, because I've had these conversations before.....NO men don't just say "oh yeah no problem, porn is no big deal" when they are faced with a woman who acts this way about it. Instead, they are constantly insecure, they are always wondering what you are watching, and they are always afraid that you are wishing you had that huge c*ck instead of his...and sometimes you ARE.

You guys who really think you should be able to watch porn guilt free can only think that because you have not been put into the position I just described. You run around and mock erotic novels and "pretend" that you have just as much to be jealous of if we read those (which I've never read one in my entire life)....but again, this is only because your woman hasn't done what I just described to you.

When she does....if she ever does....THEN you may understand what other women are saying about their feelings about porn. Until you are describing apples to apples (where you are dealing with a woman who is repeatedly watching porn of the ONE THING that you will NEVER be, and hiding it from you, masturbating to it, and denying a lot of it, and clearly she's enjoying it a lot more than you ever though a woman could possibly enjoy porn) then you really don't have an argument.

As to the bolded in the second paragraph.....please don't try to speak for others. You may feel this way, but that doesn't mean all men or even a majority of them do. Since you feel that way, you can't fathom why some of the women here are super hurt by their husband's porn use. But you are not those husbands. You can't say what they think what they feel, that they love their wives bodies, etc. It would be great if all men felt like you, but they do not.

I think most men think they can speak for the average man (probably true for women too)....but they are rarely correct. As an example, a man can say "we're, men, we like this and that"....and yet you dig a little deeper and find out this man who is speaking isn't a boob man. So then suddenly you're going "how can you speak for the average man when you don't even like boobs that much?" and he will look at you like a deer in headlights because he doesn't make the connection.

Edited to add: By the way, when I'm in a relationship, I specifically DON'T watch BBC porn, because I DON'T want to be making comparisons in my head between what is on the screen and what I'm actually experiencing with my partner. I don't want to make him feel that comparison, ever. Because, yes I really would compare....I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HELP IT if I indulged in porn whenever I wanted.

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post #35 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:37 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
You mean you prefer to focus on yourself rather than anything/anyone else? I am not sure I still understand what the difference between 'making love' and 'having sex' is. Isn't it just a state of mind?
Let me try a different way: have you tried 'making love' instead of having sex? What did you do differently?
Oh gosh no i focus on my partner as well as myself. That said, however, my partner has to be an active participant in my preferences. Which is why my bf and i are having issues-he can and will do the naughty stuff, but it doesnt come natural to him. I respect that and we are slowly finding our way.

Im not a mushy or romantic person. Im not turned on by lovemaking, which i deem to be gentle, slow, and very emo. I like to fvck and be fvcked.

I have tried making love instead of the kind of sex i prefer. I had to stifle giggles. Its just not who i am.
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post #36 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:43 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

There is a lot of variation. It wouldn't bother me at all if my wife liked BBD (or whatever the acronym is) porn. During one of our rare sexually active phases I got her a huge toy so that she could see what it was like (she enjoyed the novelty a few times, but eventually decided it was just uncomfortable)

I actually find erotic stories more annoying than any sort of porn of the above type. No one can expect me to change the size of my D&&&, but I do think erotic novels can create an unrealistic sense of how a person *should* behave romantically. (I don't object much but given the choice, I'd rather watch BBD porn with her than a romantic fantasy story).




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snip
I'll make it very blunt and easy for you....this is from my own real experience....if I'm honest and tell any man I'm with that if I really want to watch porn, its going to be BIG BLACK C*CK porn, and plenty of it, and they are free to watch with me if they want but if they utter even the tiniest bit of protest or seem to feel insecure about what I'm watching, then I'm going to berate them and ask them how dare they judge me and tell them they obviously have nothing to worry about as this is just something I enjoy for a quick orgasm release....oh of course I'm not lusting after those men's bodies and of course I'm not imagining f*cking those huge c*cks (this part would be lies)....I promise you, because I've had these conversations before.....NO men don't just say "oh yeah no problem, porn is no big deal" when they are faced with a woman who acts this way about it. Instead, they are constantly insecure, they are always wondering what you are watching, and they are always afraid that you are wishing you had that huge c*ck instead of his...and sometimes you ARE.

You guys who really think you should be able to watch porn guilt free can only think that because you have not been put into the position I just described. You run around and mock erotic novels and "pretend" that you have just as much to be jealous of if we read those (which I've never read one in my entire life)....but again, this is only because your woman hasn't done what I just described to you.

When she does....if she ever does....THEN you may understand what other women are saying about their feelings about porn. Until you are describing apples to apples (where you are dealing with a woman who is repeatedly watching porn of the ONE THING that you will NEVER be, and hiding it from you, masturbating to it, and denying a lot of it, and clearly she's enjoying it a lot more than you ever though a woman could possibly enjoy porn) then you really don't have an argument.

As to the bolded in the second paragraph.....please don't try to speak for others. You may feel this way, but that doesn't mean all men or even a majority of them do. Since you feel that way, you can't fathom why some of the women here are super hurt by their husband's porn use. But you are not those husbands. You can't say what they think what they feel, that they love their wives bodies, etc. It would be great if all men felt like you, but they do not.

snip
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post #37 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:49 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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There is a lot of variation. It wouldn't bother me at all if my wife liked BBD (or whatever the acronym is) porn. During one of our rare sexually active phases I got her a huge toy so that she could see what it was like (she enjoyed the novelty a few times, but eventually decided it was just uncomfortable)
Since you are not in the position of being with a woman who DOES watch BBC porn, without you, hides it from you, denies she's watching it when she is, is comparing your c*ck to what she sees and is fantasizing about it while having sex with you, then you don't know how you would feel if this actually were the case.

Playing with a huge toy is nothing even close to what I'm describing and has no relevance.

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post #38 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:53 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

That makes it rather difficult to discuss, since there are probably not many women who do tell their partners that they watch BBC porn.

Interesting that you think the visual is more important than the physical sensation.




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Since you are not in the position of being with a woman who DOES watch BBC porn, without you, hides it from you, denies she's watching it when she is, is comparing your c*ck to what she sees and is fantasizing about it while having sex with you, then you don't know how you would feel if this actually were the case.

Playing with a huge toy is nothing even close to what I'm describing and has no relevance.
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post #39 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:58 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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That makes it rather difficult to discuss, since there are probably not many women who do tell their partners that they watch BBC porn.

Interesting that you think the visual is more important than the physical sensation.
Right. And until there are women telling men this (though it is happening more and more with the younger generation) then men will not understand what it feels like to have their woman like this type of porn and have her hide it from him, fantasize about those c*cks, etc.

Men typically aren't honest about what they are watching and what they get out of it either....because they KNOW it will hurt their woman's feelings. Even while they will still do whatever they can to keep watching it secretly, knowing it would hurt her. Then they say "why does porn hurt women's feelings that's so stupid". This is a lie many tell themselves. A lie that would slap them in their own face if the tables were turned on them.

I did not say the visual is more important than the physical sensation. I said you buying a huge toy to play with your wife and her not liking it is not in any way the same as a woman choosing to watch BBC porn and enjoying it for her own reasons.

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post #40 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:18 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

I was referring to something different about the toy - that if I wasn't bothered by her having a huge toy, I don't think I'd be bothered by her watching BBC porn. Of course I can't know without trying and she has no interest.

I don't know what other men watch in porn. I mostly watch when my wife turns me down (almost always). She would be unhappy if she knew I watched at all. I mostly watch kinky stuff that she isn't interested in.




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Right. And until there are women telling men this (though it is happening more and more with the younger generation) then men will not understand what it feels like to have their woman like this type of porn and have her hide it from him, fantasize about those c*cks, etc.

Men typically aren't honest about what they are watching and what they get out of it either....because they KNOW it will hurt their woman's feelings. Even while they will still do whatever they can to keep watching it secretly, knowing it would hurt her. Then they say "why does porn hurt women's feelings that's so stupid". This is a lie many tell themselves. A lie that would slap them in their own face if the tables were turned on them.

I did not say the visual is more important than the physical sensation. I said you buying a huge toy to play with your wife and her not liking it is not in any way the same as a woman choosing to watch BBC porn and enjoying it for her own reasons.


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post #41 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:38 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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I was referring to something different about the toy - that if I wasn't bothered by her having a huge toy, I don't think I'd be bothered by her watching BBC porn. Of course I can't know without trying and she has no interest.
But even with the toy, your opinion about "how you would feel" is shaped by the fact that you tried and she didn't like it.

What if she did like it, had huge orgasms from it, then took it underground and used it without you every chance she got, meanwhile denied you sex (even though she already does that part)? Your opinion would be different.

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post #42 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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Have to ask though OP, it does not matter what anyone but your wife thinks is a good lover, is this the real question or are you wanting to work out if you are one?
It's all about education. In my opinion, regardless of whether I am currently good or bad in bed, I can assure you that I can always be better. Educating myself is key to that success. My wife is not very vocal about what she likes or does not like. In fact, I don't think she knows herself. It's up to me to learn, apply and evaluate (with her).

Nothing like TAM for a REAL sex education.
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post #43 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 11:13 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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As to the first bolded....I don't really think you are ever going to "get" this topic. You clearly don't really want to see anything except your own opinion about it. You keep trying and trying to discuss it, but you really are only trying to convince others of your point of view. You are not actually seeing their point of view.

I'll make it very blunt and easy for you....this is from my own real experience....if I'm honest and tell any man I'm with that if I really want to watch porn, its going to be BIG BLACK C*CK porn, and plenty of it, and they are free to watch with me if they want but if they utter even the tiniest bit of protest or seem to feel insecure about what I'm watching, then I'm going to berate them and ask them how dare they judge me and tell them they obviously have nothing to worry about as this is just something I enjoy for a quick orgasm release....oh of course I'm not lusting after those men's bodies and of course I'm not imagining f*cking those huge c*cks (this part would be lies)....I promise you, because I've had these conversations before.....NO men don't just say "oh yeah no problem, porn is no big deal" when they are faced with a woman who acts this way about it. Instead, they are constantly insecure, they are always wondering what you are watching, and they are always afraid that you are wishing you had that huge c*ck instead of his...and sometimes you ARE.

You guys who really think you should be able to watch porn guilt free can only think that because you have not been put into the position I just described. You run around and mock erotic novels and "pretend" that you have just as much to be jealous of if we read those (which I've never read one in my entire life)....but again, this is only because your woman hasn't done what I just described to you.

When she does....if she ever does....THEN you may understand what other women are saying about their feelings about porn. Until you are describing apples to apples (where you are dealing with a woman who is repeatedly watching porn of the ONE THING that you will NEVER be, and hiding it from you, masturbating to it, and denying a lot of it, and clearly she's enjoying it a lot more than you ever though a woman could possibly enjoy porn) then you really don't have an argument.

As to the bolded in the second paragraph.....please don't try to speak for others. You may feel this way, but that doesn't mean all men or even a majority of them do. Since you feel that way, you can't fathom why some of the women here are super hurt by their husband's porn use. But you are not those husbands. You can't say what they think what they feel, that they love their wives bodies, etc. It would be great if all men felt like you, but they do not.

I think most men think they can speak for the average man (probably true for women too)....but they are rarely correct. As an example, a man can say "we're, men, we like this and that"....and yet you dig a little deeper and find out this man who is speaking isn't a boob man. So then suddenly you're going "how can you speak for the average man when you don't even like boobs that much?" and he will look at you like a deer in headlights because he doesn't make the connection.

Edited to add: By the way, when I'm in a relationship, I specifically DON'T watch BBC porn, because I DON'T want to be making comparisons in my head between what is on the screen and what I'm actually experiencing with my partner. I don't want to make him feel that comparison, ever. Because, yes I really would compare....I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HELP IT if I indulged in porn whenever I wanted.
Gosh, my post must have hit a spot of sorts...

The porn topic is not really something 'I am trying to get' - I actually feel that I 'get it' very well; I see where the double standards lie and I have a pretty clear and strong view on it which I will express, hopefully without inviting the kind of hostility expressed in the tone of your post. I also appreciate that it is a painful topic for some. I don't however believe that people who have a healthy attitude towards porn are in the minority, as your posts suggest. In fact it is much more likely that someone who decided to blame porn for all the evils in their relationship and decided to post about it on TAM, will be the exceptional cases rather than majority. Would you not agree?

If my wife decided that BBC porn turned her on, I would not be disturbed by it in the slightest. In fact I would probably find a way to build it into our foreplay (other than painting my own c*ck black...although who knows, this might do the trick. Why is there an embedded assumption that only black c*cks are large?).
I am comfortable enough about my size and more importantly, I know that she is more than comfortable with it. Actually I remember the only type of porn my wife would bear watching were lesbian shower scenes (she liked the clean, soapy look of it and the good looking female bodies). I remember being turned on by the fact that it turned her on. I never felt threatened or hurt by it.

Having said that, if I knew that her feelings were hurt by me watching porn, I would immediately cut it out (I never watch anything anyway whenever we have a regular sex life). But it's more likely that after a conversation about it and establishing why she was hurt, we would not have this issue anymore. The disagreements, as I see it, arise from the fact that porn is - for the majority of healthy couples - a lousy substitute for the real thing whereas people who seem to get offended believe that it is an improvement over the real thing for some reason. In some cases it might be (and we have seen many cases on TAM when this is the case and after digging further it always turns out that there are more deep-seeded issues than porn) but in the majority of cases (outside of TAM, in real life), it isn't. Many studies support this and it's not something I am plucking out of thin air. Perhaps if women didn't threaten to leave their husbands any time porn came up, many men wouldn't have to go out of their way to hide it...
Anyway, I am not that interested in the porn topic. Somebody mentioned 'bringing porn (techniques) to bed' as a turn off, even though in view of the responses of the thread, this seemed ironic. Unfortunately I responded.

The topic of emotional connection in relation with the thread title is more interesting to me because from what I can tell, it seems to mean different things to different people (all valid and interesting view points) and I am very curious about the diversity of opinions and haven't made up my mind at all. So far, my interpretation of it is that it is akin to 'having a great time with your partner' in bed. But it's the subtleties I am after because I want to make sure my wife gets the best out the little time that we have with each other.

Last edited by inmyprime; 01-30-2017 at 11:23 AM.
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post #44 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 11:27 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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Gosh, my post must have hit a spot of sorts...

...

If my wife decided that BBC porn turned her on, I would not be disturbed by it in the slightest. In fact I would probably find a way to build it into our foreplay (other than painting my own c*ck black...although who knows, this might do the trick. Why is there an embedded assumption that only black c*cks are large?).
"Deciding that it turned her on" is much different than she's watching it regularly, hiding it from you, lying when she gets caught, fantasizing constantly about huge black c*cks including when you are having sex with her, and in her mind nothing else will ever stack up to what she's seeing in porn, she watches it every time you turn your back, every time she is in the bathroom alone, etc. If this were the case, I do think you would be disturbed by it more than slightly.

Your statement about "why is there an embedded assumption?" is just the tinge of jealousy I'm talking about. Now again....you can't take your own wife who only ever enjoyed seeing some women soap each other up, and assume you'd know how you would feel if she was entirely different in this are and couldn't get enough of seeing huge black c*cks. I don't believe for a moment you wouldn't be hurt and insecure if you actually lived the scenario I've described.

The reason your post touched a nerve with me is because you spoke for "men" and said that "men" aren't lusting for the women's bodies in porn and that they always love their wife's body more. You are way off base here and are only speaking for yourself, and when you do that but project it upon "men", then women who have husbands who are much different than you rightly feel you don't know what you're talking about (WRT their own life and husband). It is a disservice for you or any man to try to play down a woman's feelings when her husband is FAR different than you are.

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post #45 of 153 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 11:43 AM
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Re: Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?

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Originally Posted by Faithful Wife View Post
"Deciding that it turned her on" is much different than she's watching it regularly, hiding it from you, lying when she gets caught, fantasizing constantly about huge black c*cks including when you are having sex with her, and in her mind nothing else will ever stack up to what she's seeing in porn, she watches it every time you turn your back, every time she is in the bathroom alone, etc. If this were the case, I do think you would be disturbed by it more than slightly.

Your statement about "why is there an embedded assumption?" is just the tinge of jealousy I'm talking about.
This was a joke. No jealousy. Please don't project what I am supposed to be feeling.

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Now again....you can't take your own wife who only ever enjoyed seeing some women soap each other up, and assume you'd know how you would feel if she was entirely different in this are and couldn't get enough of seeing huge black c*cks. I don't believe for a moment you wouldn't be hurt and insecure if you actually lived the scenario I've described.

The reason your post touched a nerve with me is because you spoke for "men" and said that "men" aren't lusting for the women's bodies in porn and that they always love their wife's body more. You are way off base here and are only speaking for yourself, and when you do that but project it upon "men", then women who have husbands who are much different than you rightly feel you don't know what you're talking about (WRT their own life and husband).
I was speaking for the 'majority of men' (and I shall provide this disclaimer should I use the term again in future, this is what my lawyers tell me
I am surprised that you don't see that it is in your post, where you clearly mention an extremely specific example and then declare everything I said about porn invalid, unless my wife experienced & went through that specific example of yours. I mentioned the closest thing (lesbian scenes). I could just as much start getting paranoid that my wife could be into some woman on woman action, secretly or not secretly. But I ain't. And it doesn't bother me. I don't see why it has to be black c*cks or nothing.

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It is a disservice for you or any man to try to play down a woman's feelings when her husband is FAR different than you are.
And that is the crux of the matter: I do not wish to downplay your feelings about whatever may have happened to you or some single cases scattered over TAM. However that is not the majority of the cases that I am referring to and if you insist that it is (because I wouldn't know otherwise since my wife isn't seemingly that much into black c*cks), then lets just agree to disagree and move on.
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