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Wife Cannot Forgive

11K views 51 replies 19 participants last post by  Dexter Morgan 
#1 ·
My wife and I are having some issues and it all stems from a few fights we have had over our 9 year marriage. Our most recent fight was two months ago, and we have not had any sexual relations or real physical touch since a few days after.
I never knew that she was unhappy in our marriage because we have always had a very loving, very passionate relationship. No fidelity problems with either one of us and we alway said that we could work anything out. Now we are being tested.
Two years ago on New Year's Eve we went out drinking with some friends. I was unemployed at the time, for the first time in my adult life, and was already feeling like less of a man because of it. My wife gets flirty when she drinks and was flirting with my friend. While they were in line at the bar, he apparently slid his hand down the back of her jeans....not too far though. I could tell something was up, but she would not talk about it. This is a pattern with my wife. She will hide stuff from me until I find out and then I get very mad that she hid it from me. When I found out later that night, I was mad. She tried to keep me from going in our house to get something. I grabbed her my her sweatshirt and pulled her out of the way. I never hit her and never would. But now, after our most recent fight, she brought this back up as the culprit to our issues. She cannot forgive me that I used my power to move her out of the way. Any fights that we have ever had were alcohol induced on both parts, but we don't drink often. Again, there are no fidelity issues, though I have forgiven her for so much worse than what I am guilty of......and her response is that I must be a better person then, since I can forgive.
Ladies, I am not looking for an excuse, because there are no excuses. I have told her that I am ashamed of what happened that night, but that there were many issues going on at the same time. What I am looking for is any advice you can give me about dealing with this. We have been to two MC sessions that were not very productive. Neither of us liked the guy. We have a session tomorrow with a brilliant woman that I have met with for solo sessions.
 
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#37 ·
I believe we will be going to MC again soon. Things have been pretty good since our last session. My wife admits her mistakes, but does not seem to take ownership of her role in our fights we have had. Hopefully our MC will bring all this out. I am doing the little things everyday to show her how much I love her and hopefully she will regain the feelings for me in due time. As I have mentioned, she still shows love.....just not physical. We were intimate 3-4 times a week up until our fight in September. Then two times the following week and none since.
Also, I want her to do solo counseling so that her depression and modd swings can be addressed. I married a very happy, bubbly, woman that changed dramatically when we lost our daughter at birth 6 years ago. Even our two beautiful children only helped so much. She is a great mom, but she still blames herself for our daughter, and has never addressed the grief.
 
#39 ·
So last night was NYE and the wife worked like most years. When she was getting ready for work, I sent her a text asking to end 2011 with a nice kiss. She left for work and did not respond. I sent her a text later on asking why she didnt respond, because I never know if she gets the texts....she has had issues with that recently. Her response was that she wanted me to quit sending her uncomfortable text messages. She later apologized for that and said she just doesnt know how to respond when I send them to her.
I feel like all the work I have been putting in to save our marriage took a huge step back. Up to that point, we had a great weekend as a family. She even gave me a couple small kisses.....of course I had to instigate. I am starting to feel like she just doesn't deserve me anymore.
 
#40 ·
Hi jhult ~

Maybe you've already addressed these questions. I'm kind of late coming to this thread.

What was the big fight about that you had in September?

Is your wife involved in any kind of EA/PA? Have you done the snooping around? Her actions just seem so common to those who are involved in some type of affair.

Hoping that your 2012 will be a happy new year for you, in one way or another.

Best wishes.
 
#41 ·
Our fight in September was because I was watching a football game at a friends house, kids were playing, wife was upstairs with others wives drinking. At halftime, I went upstairs to see her and give her a kiss.....and she was gone. Her and another took off driving to go get their friend....after they had been drinking. That made me pretty mad.
Then later, they had not come back yet and my daughter was crying and saying she wanted mommy. I took a pic of her and sent to my wife. That pissed off my wife. So, after game, I was ready to go....pretty mad and kids were crying and I told my wife we were leaving. That embarrassed her and we got into a verbal spat on the way home....first time ever in front of the kids.
She left that night with my daughter....for about an hour. Came back and that is when she first told me that she didn't think she loved me romantically anymore. There have been no affairs. We just never made time for ourselves, and I think it has taken its toll after 11 years together.
 
#42 ·
Ok, Ladies....I need your input. Things have been going ok lately. We are getting along well, both having time to do the things we want to do and still have family time. However, we are not making time for a date night. We spend an hour or two together most nights after the kids go to bed, but that is about it.
I asked her out for a date earlier this week and she said "we'll see". She ended up getting sick so we didn't go out. I asked her out again for next week and she said it depended on what we were going to do. I told her I would tel her if she agreed to go. Now she felt pressured so I dropped it.
Later, I told her that as long as we are still married, I expect sex and I expect kisses. It does not have to be alot, but something to make it feel like we are sill married. She said she feels like I am diminishing her feelings. I said I was not, but rather just telling her my feelings and that they do still matter. Her response was that she can't help the way she feels. I told her that she can, but she has to want to and that physical touch can help it. She said that she was still in our house for a reason, which is a good sign. But, she still says she needs space. I learned that she meant emotional space....not physical space. Please help me figure things out. Deep down, I think she still loves me, but is still mad and holding a grudge. I know that if another woman shows interest again, she will freak. I feel like I am in a very unfair spot.
 
#44 ·
I have not verified the emotional part, but I highly doubt it. I know there is not a physical affair. She says that the feelings started last year, but that she never said anything about it due to my mom being sick and my wife not wanting to hurt my feelings. But, our sex life never changed....3-4 times a week for 11 years until our fight in September. Then one time a week later and another physical encounter of another nature....and then nothing.
 
#45 ·
I've read your thread through, and honestly it reeks of her having somekind of outside affair.

Perhaps she was easing her guilt by keeping up sex etc with you at home, but after the fight in Sept she has rationalized cutting you off and is using the fight to justify it. But I see her using some outside person as her physical and emotional release.

People just don't switch like she did, and they don't carry a grudge like she has to that extreme.
 
#46 ·
After reading the thread some things popped out at me. You said really I don't feel like I'm married. Marriage is not a feeling. Same for love it's not a feeling, rather it is a commitment to love no matter what (excluding abuse).
When you say As Long As We Are Still Married I Expect Sex And I Expect Kisses (Sorry I don't know how to make those quote boxes)
If my husband said that to me I would be devastated. As long as we are still married? What's up with that? Where is the commitment? Till death do us part? Are you planning on leaving?

I think she might be still grieving the loss of the baby. She can't bury her feelings, they will spill over somewhere else. She might be hurting very deeply, even something like post traumatic stress syndrome.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, it's just no one seems to be addressing this particular issue.
 
#47 ·
Thanks for your reply. I agree that I should stop saying "as long as we are still married". We are married and to me, divorce is not an option. People that I talk to agree that our marriage is pretty normal. I know I have been a great husband and father and I can live better knowing that.
I was talking with one of my female friends that is also friends with my wife. She thinks that it is a combination of a few things causing our issues, one of which being a hormonal imbalance. She needs a hysterectomy but should not have one because she cannot take hormone replacements due to a blood clot disorder, which caused our baby's death. So, I am fully committed to her and our marriage and will let her have her emotional space. When I start seeing definitive changes, then I am going to take her away for a weekend somewhere so we can focus on each other for a few days. Until then, I will keep plugging along.
 
#48 ·
Ok ladies....need some more interpretation. Things have been going pretty well. It all clicked for me two weeks ago when I realized that I HAVE been controlling/manipulating. If I didnt like what we were having for dinner, I would be unhappy. If she had to work all weekend long, I would give her a guilt trip. I would get mad if we were planning on having sex and she proceeded to put on her grubby jammies. I would complain about her driving, mostly kidding, but I am sure it bothered her.
I tried to have control over everything in my life to avoid heartache, and look at where it has gotten me. My mom was the exact same way before she died a year ago. But two weeks ago, I sat next to my wife and explained to her that I now "get it" and that I was sorry and would do my best to change and be a better husband/person. I told her that I love her and that I am there for her if/when she is ready. Since then, things have been much better. The coldness has subsided and we are talking more. I am not asking for kisses, reassurance, or anything. She still makes dinner almost every night, I do some nights. She is doing more around the house again. She stops and gets gas in my car if it needs it, brings me a soda on her way home from the gym, asked me what I wanted to do for my birthday on Thursday so she could call my family, and we celebrated my birthday with her family Sunday night. I am not getting my hopes up because I know patience is the key. But, I think it seems like she is slowly coming around, and just making sure that I am sticking with the changes I have made. Opinions?
 
#49 ·
Two years ago on New Year's Eve we went out drinking with some friends. I was unemployed at the time, for the first time in my adult life, and was already feeling like less of a man because of it. My wife gets flirty when she drinks and was flirting with my friend.
Flirts don't have a good track record of being faithful. Flirting is the signaling of attraction to the recipient. Do you think she flirts with guys she thinks are ugly? Of course not.


While they were in line at the bar, he apparently slid his hand down the back of her jeans....not too far though.
His hand should have been nowhere near the inside of her clothes. There is no "not too far though". It was far enough.


I could tell something was up, but she would not talk about it. This is a pattern with my wife. She will hide stuff from me until I find out and then I get very mad that she hid it from me. When I found out later that night, I was mad. She tried to keep me from going in our house to get something. I grabbed her my her sweatshirt and pulled her out of the way. I never hit her and never would.
If someone is physically trying to keep you from going where you are going, you are within your rights to move them out of the way.


But now, after our most recent fight, she brought this back up as the culprit to our issues. She cannot forgive me that I used my power to move her out of the way.
So basically she can physically try to stop you from going where you are going, but you cannot physically move her out of the way without striking her? Thats called a double standard and hypocritical.

And it doesn't give her the right to disrespect you by flirting with other men and letting them cross the line with her.


Any fights that we have ever had were alcohol induced on both parts, but we don't drink often. Again, there are no fidelity issues, though I have forgiven her for so much worse than what I am guilty of......and her response is that I must be a better person then, since I can forgive.
Then tell her since she can't forgive you for physically moving her out of the way when she physically tries to stop you from going where you are going, then ask her if you should forgive her for her flirtatiousness and letting another man cross the line with her.


Ladies, I am not looking for an excuse, because there are no excuses. I have told her that I am ashamed of what happened that night, but that there were many issues going on at the same time.
Ashamed of what? You did nothing wrong. She tried stopping you, all you did was move her out of the way. You already said you didn't hit her, so I'm assuming you didn't grab her and shake her violently while moving her? If you did, then yes, you should be ashamed. But I'm not getting that impression.


What I am looking for is any advice you can give me about dealing with this. We have been to two MC sessions that were not very productive. Neither of us liked the guy. We have a session tomorrow with a brilliant woman that I have met with for solo sessions.
Make sure when telling your side of the story that you have never hit her and never will and that the reason you moved her is she physically tried to stop you from going in the house. And that she is disrespecting you by flirting with men and letting them test the waters with her.

And by your description of your wife, there may not be infidelity, that you know of, but I'd bet good money she would cheat if you were nowhere in sight.
 
#51 ·
So things have been going really well. We have been getting along great, spending great family time together, and having our alone time as well. Then, tonight she drops multiple bombs on me. She tells me she is moving out, she tells me she is moving out this week, and that she has not made our house payment in 4 months. I am in shock. We had a very long talk about her depression and trying to find happiness. I explained that she is doing what she has always done, run away from problems instead of trying to fix them. She cleared up everything with her family about me moving her out of the way. However, she refuses to explain anything about what she has done to me financially to her mom. Her mom gave her money for a deposit on a new place, and I feel like I should tell her mom what she is leaving me with. She should not be aiding this BS and I dont think she would if she knew the story. No, she is not having an affair.....so stop with that stuff. She has bad depression signs and I asked her to go see someone about it. She also says that she is not read for divorce, but that this is something she needs to do. I am devastated.
 
#52 ·
She tells me she is moving out, she tells me she is moving out this week, and that she has not made our house payment in 4 months.
Too bad for her if she thinks she gets to walk away from that.

Make sure your attorney knows this. She is liable for half the marital debt too. She doesn't get to leave and not owe half of what wasn't paid.


We had a very long talk about her depression and trying to find happiness. I explained that she is doing what she has always done, run away from problems instead of trying to fix them.
There is nothing to fix with a "woman" like her.


She cleared up everything with her family about me moving her out of the way. However, she refuses to explain anything about what she has done to me financially to her mom.
You document EVERYTHING, the debt she has with you, payments not made while you were living together, get a copy of balances in checking and savings as of the day she leaves. That way if she clears the accounts out, your lawyer will present that to the court and she will have to pay you half the balances.

Cancel credit cards now, but make sure if there are any significant balances, that you give your attorney a copy. Again, she is liable for half.


Her mom gave her money for a deposit on a new place, and I feel like I should tell her mom what she is leaving me with. She should not be aiding this BS and I dont think she would if she knew the story.
Waste of time. She is going to support her daughter.


No, she is not having an affair.....so stop with that stuff.
She isn't that you know of. At the very least she was disrespectful in her flirting. And you can bury your head in the sand if you want, but if the opportunity presented itself where she thought you wouldn't find out, a woman with her character WILL cheat.

But its really a moot point. You are going to be free from her.


She has bad depression signs and I asked her to go see someone about it. She also says that she is not read for divorce, but that this is something she needs to do. I am devastated.
Unless you want to be played for a fool, you don't give her the option of whether she is ready for divorce or not. You server her papers.

She is wanting to get out of the marital responsibilities, all the while getting to live her single life. Sorry, it isn't going to work that way.

If you don't get a lawyer now and file, you WILL regret it.
 
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