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Old 01-04-2012, 02:24 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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Originally Posted by Mistys dad View Post
OK.

You did generalize.

You took it off topic in several places.

Your got angry and frustrated because you didn't get the chorus of "Poor you" that you were looking for.

People tried to answer your question and you sought out an argument in everything that didn't fit into your definition.

You changed the parameters of the discussion several times to steer the answers that you wanted to hear.

Now your going to use the big red letters, again, and play the victim, again.

So your going to take your ball and go home.

Oh, that's right. you already left.
@MistysDad, I'm shocked to get this from you. I thought you were one of the better ones on here, but I suppose not. I don't understand why you're accusing me of portraying myself as a victim. Last I checked this forum wasn't solely about me, but also other wives.

I steered the conversation away from the topic trying to defend the topic. Just like I'm doing RIGHT now. Geez.

Oh and I'm not using "BIG RED LETTERS" to suggest anger or to emphasize. I originally started that to differentiate the text. It had nothing to do with emotion. However, since my red text is causing more controversy, I guess I'll continue to use it. Lol.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:25 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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Originally Posted by trey69 View Post
It seems AFEH gets to you worse than anyone here...what are you getting out of continuing to respond to him?
This is the million dollar question.

RJ - once you figured out that you can't stop your detractors from posting, but you can put up personal barriers to ignore those you don't want to hear from, you'll be so much happier.

Applying it to your thread, you won't care when some subset of men do not behave the way you like - you will have learned to identify and simply not associate with the ones that bother you.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:28 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

Okay. . .I'll admit I am not following this thread. . .there seems to be a lot of fighting about generalizing (one complaint) and the charge of feminism (another complaint).

I think it's okay to generalize. The OP generalized and I think that's okay.

You can either make a fair generalization (and I think it was fair), or an unfair generalization.

I can then offer an explanation to the generalization (which I did). Generalizations get general explanations (feminism).

You can accept the theory or not.

I mean, what's another theory? A strange "Work ethic declination" gene entered the Y chromosome as a result of nuclear testing in the 1960's? Oprah? Alien abduction?

Why do you think the male work ethic has declined (or seemingly so)? (as a generalization)
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:29 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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Originally Posted by trey69 View Post
It seems AFEH gets to you worse than anyone here...what are you getting out of continuing to respond to him?

I'm not gaining anything out of responding to any of them actually. I suppose it's just part of my personality. I'm not one to stand for feeling bullied or attack without putting up a good fight. Some of these guys are trying to hit below the belt a bit and get personal too and I'm trying to ignore them and stay on topic. It's crazy. Lol, but it comes with the territory.

I wanted to hear from men, and now I'm hearing from them. Sounds like many of them are whining though. Lol.

However, some of them have really provided some good insight. I do appreciate it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:31 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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This is the million dollar question.

RJ - once you figured out that you can't stop your detractors from posting, but you can put up personal barriers to ignore those you don't want to hear from, you'll be so much happier.

Applying it to your thread, you won't care when some subset of men do not behave the way you like - you will have learned to identify and simply not associate with the ones that bother you.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:34 PM   #141 (permalink)
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AFEH, just when I was beginning to gain a more positive perception of you and your views, you went ahead and reverted back to the immaturity.

I realize that you're just trying to push my buttons but you can stop now. I realize that this is an open discussion and everyone has right to their opinion, thoughts, or comments (even if I feel attacked by them). I feel I've been too defensive on here and not focusing on the topic. I've allowed you and others to steer me away from my questions, while those such as Callalily, have tried to provide their input.

So please, go and take care of your wife and your 39 year old son and allow the adults to have a mature conversation.
I do not give an F about your perception of Me or any Man.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:37 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

Yep, I followed this thread.

I don't normally posty in the Ladies Lounge because I figure that it is more for women talking to women. But, the thread title caught my eye.

I honestly tried to answer your question, and you quickly bullet pointed in red and twisted everything I said. (post 31)

You accused one person of being a dead beat husband. Then accuse people of hitting you below the belt.

Your answers have become more angry, more insulting, more condescending. The passive-aggressive quips ( I thought you were one of the better ones on here, but I suppose not) you throw out so often are just more anger projected outward.

You have raised the hostility level while many other have tried calmly to give you the opinions you said you wanted.

The truth is you don't want an answer to your original question. You just want confrontation.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:40 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
Come on guys. What's going on with you? At first I thought it was just my situation but the more threads I read on TAM, the more I'm realizing that there are so many men whom are comfortable allowing their wives to take care of the household while they do the bear minimum to make the marriage work. There are so many men who don't work at all or are working but hardly contributing financially (and in most cases by choice). Also, I've encountered many situations where not only doesn't the husband hardly pay any bills, but he also doesn't lift a finger around the house to make up for his lack in financial support.
I think someone else may have mentioned this. But TAM is a special interest group, so it's not necessarily indicative of what goes on in the more general world.

For instance, I've also seen quite a number of posts from men who have wives who are SAHM who have no compunction about doing little to keep the house up and organized while they are home.

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What is becoming of our men today? Why are more and more men accepting their wives to be breadwinner and home maker while they sit and reap the benefits? Why does it seem as if many men no longer have pride or back bone? I remember when a man refused to accept money from his wife because he was short. He would work 2 jobs before he had his wife taking over his role in the household. Nowadays, it seems as if more men are content with being "slave masters." They sit on their tails and give out orders while their wives does it all. AND to top it off, have an audacity to complain about his "lacking" sex life when she's too resentful and or tired to give out.
I guess I am not sure whether there is actually 'more and more' men acting like this or not. I'm not sure how we can tell that or not, or if it's just conjecture and anecdote.

For instance, over the holidays I did a bunch of reading on American pioneers. One of the books I read was called "Pioneer Women...The Lives of Women on the Frontier". In the section on marriage and divorce, there was a lot of discussion on 'idle' husbands and the difficulties women had in obtaining a divorce.

One husband wrote to his wife the following, and then wondered why she wanted to leave: "I want someone to get me a good supper and let me take my ease and when I am very tired in the morning I want someone to get up and get breakfast and let me lay in bed and take my rest. More than all I want my wife where I can have her company and to cheer me up when the blue devils chain me down."

After reading some of those books on what pioneer women went through, it made me think that there's always been and is always going to be an element, man or woman, that are slothful, lazy, inconsiderate, and idle.

Whether we have more idle men now or not, I don't know. I think, in general, that our society, both men and women, are more flighty, more apathetic about really working hard for things, and feel more entitled to have things given to them without putting in the work.

I do know that we can all try our best in raising our sons to the best of our abilities to be strong, productive, and considerate. I do know that we can try our best in being appreciative and helpful of our husbands so that they can also be strong, productive, and considerate.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:42 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

Also, I just tried to open up to indicate why perhaps my work ethic isn't on "maximum overdrive" and I felt attacked (no biggie).

Again, I am not sure what all the complaining is about.

BTW, it's all relative. A lot of the women I date say I work TOO hard. . .my ex-wife complained like you about me (men) - I was lazy.

In fact, she told my middle son that as to why we divorced (during a moment he broke down to me about it).

I actually think in a way, it's a little of both.

I can own both (peculiar dichotomy about me - I DO have a lazy streak in me).

I guess if you are complaining that under the FEMINIST MANIFESTO, it was the goal to create the SUPERWOMAN AND THE SUPERMAN, where the man comes home from work, and cooks, cleans, food shops, runs kids to doctors, and does all the traditional (or formerly traditional - seems funny saying that) work that a housewife did and the modern male feels GOOD about that, well, the feminist manifesto failed.

Well, it did succeed in creating "SUPERWOMAN". . .but didn't succeed in creating "SUPERMAN."

I have no desire to be SUPERMAN and I don't think men do.

Men just want to work.

Sorry they didn't get on with the Manifesto.

We didn't get the memo, I guess.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:43 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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Yep, I followed this thread.

I don't normally posty in the Ladies Lounge because I figure that it is more for women talking to women. But, the thread title caught my eye.

I honestly tried to answer your question, and you quickly bullet pointed in red and twisted everything I said. (post 31)

You accused one person of being a dead beat husband. Then accuse people of hitting you below the belt.

Your answers have become more angry, more insulting, more condescending. The passive-aggressive quips ( I thought you were one of the better ones on here, but I suppose not) you throw out so often are just more anger projected outward.

You have raised the hostility level while many other have tried calmly to give you the opinions you said you wanted.

The truth is you don't want an answer to your original question. You just want confrontation.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:55 PM   #146 (permalink)
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@Enchantment, I have also encountered many men who have so many problems with their wives and they truly care to make things better. That definitely raised my eyebrows because I can't recall ever witnessing a man expressing such concern and care regarding his marriage. I guess I've seen so many times (in my relationship and others) that men don't really express their hurt and concern about their marriages. It really never hit me that a man can really worry about his wife's happiness, so to read those types of posts have been very educating for me.

However, I won't deny that women have their flaws as well. After being on TAM, I realize that many men are hurting just as women because of the downfalls in their marriages. Nonetheless, I wanted a discussion specifically about a man's perspective regarding the lacking man. Some say that men don't really provide because in some cases they weren't brought up to, while others believe that women enable the man to be unsupportive. Several believe that you can't change a lacking man and the woman should simply leave. A few have blamed it on the movement of feminism, subliminal messages embedded during youth, etc. I love the different perspectives. Again, I can't stress enough the different views and understanding that I'm getting from everyone.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:00 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Also, I just tried to open up to indicate why perhaps my work ethic isn't on "maximum overdrive" and I felt attacked (no biggie).

Again, I am not sure what all the complaining is about.

BTW, it's all relative. A lot of the women I date say I work TOO hard. . .my ex-wife complained like you about me (men) - I was lazy.

In fact, she told my middle son that as to why we divorced (during a moment he broke down to me about it).

I actually think in a way, it's a little of both.

I can own both (peculiar dichotomy about me - I DO have a lazy streak in me).

I guess if you are complaining that under the FEMINIST MANIFESTO, it was the goal to create the SUPERWOMAN AND THE SUPERMAN, where the man comes home from work, and cooks, cleans, food shops, runs kids to doctors, and does all the traditional (or formerly traditional - seems funny saying that) work that a housewife did and the modern male feels GOOD about that, well, the feminist manifesto failed.

Well, it did succeed in creating "SUPERWOMAN". . .but didn't succeed in creating "SUPERMAN."

I have no desire to be SUPERMAN and I don't think men do.

Men just want to work.

Sorry they didn't get on with the Manifesto.

We didn't get the memo, I guess.
@Scannerguard, if you feel as if you simply want to work and not contribute in any other way then that's fine. That's how you feel, but why do you feel that way? Why wouldn't you want to help in every aspect to smoothly manage the family, especially if your wife worked too? Do you think it's fair that you'd only play a portion of the role in the home when the wife was doing so much more?

I guess I'm just wondering why wouldn't a husband (with your way of thinking) not realize how stressful and exhausting it must be for the wife to not only work, but also be the home maker as well. Is it that you really don't get it or simply don't care???
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:02 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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Originally Posted by Mistys dad View Post
Yep, I followed this thread.

I don't normally posty in the Ladies Lounge because I figure that it is more for women talking to women. But, the thread title caught my eye.

I honestly tried to answer your question, and you quickly bullet pointed in red and twisted everything I said. (post 31)

You accused one person of being a dead beat husband. Then accuse people of hitting you below the belt.

Your answers have become more angry, more insulting, more condescending. The passive-aggressive quips ( I thought you were one of the better ones on here, but I suppose not) you throw out so often are just more anger projected outward.

You have raised the hostility level while many other have tried calmly to give you the opinions you said you wanted.

The truth is you don't want an answer to your original question. You just want confrontation.
too

I had an answer typed out but realize that I feel exactly as Misty's Dad on this thread.

Even I in my earlier post tried to provide an usefull answer yet still feel like my reply got grouped in among RJ's summarization of what she thinks is jaded useless men.

There is nothing wrong with generalizations as long as you keep that at the high level and do your part to make sure it is representative of reality. All men are certainly not lazy beyond hope, nor are most, its a few bad apples that have tainted RJ's entire perspective of a man's role in a relationship. If you can't accept the reality that men are just doing what they have evolved, or been designed, to do then you are really not open to the answer you seek.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:06 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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I wanted to hear from men, and now I'm hearing from them. Sounds like many of them are whining though. Lol.

However, some of them have really provided some good insight. I do appreciate it.
R.J. - I think that many of the responses from men have been well-meaning and thoughtful, but it seems that you might be interpreting them as whining. That choice of words is telling. You are calling the people who disagree with you immature. After all, children whine and adults talk. I think it is that tone that is attracting the attention you don't want.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:14 PM   #150 (permalink)
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: If you can't accept the reality that men are just doing what they have evolved, or been designed, to do then you are really not open to the answer you seek.
I don't know why you are saying that I've suggested in anyway that all men are lazy. My thread is about "men whom don't contribute in their households." Therefore, do you truly believe that "men are just doing what they have evolved, or been designed, to do " by not supporting their wives?
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