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Old 01-04-2012, 03:53 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

"Come on guys. What's going on with you?"

That was the first line of your first post. First impressions are quite important. The first thing any man who pulls his weight does when he sees that is goes on the defensive.

"Good for you. You're one of the few."

That was post number 52. While claiming you where not generalizing in one breath, you would say things like this. I did eventualy get the point and attempted to provide awnsers to your intended questions but by that point it just became a match of people seeing who could piss the other off more (yes, you included).
One thing you will learn on this site is that many people are verry passionate about things that they can relate too (obviously yourself, and myslef included if you see the first post I made responding to you). Many people get stuck on one phrase or sentance and apply it to everything you say, and in doing so it drowns out the orginal intent of what you are saying. If you don't wish to have the fire brought your way then you should probibly leave out lines such as the ones I mentioned.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:00 PM   #167 (permalink)
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I keep encountering the possibility of depression. Hmmm…I don't know what to take of that. I remember a guy from a different forum suggested that some men tend to feel defeated by their woman's success and simply gives up. He went on to say that the woman takes charge and does it all, leaving the man feeling helpless and needless. I've also read a few posts in this thread suggesting something similar. Can this be one of the symptoms of "depression?"
With your story, depression does come to mind pretty quickly. The problem with that theory is the fact that he is still bugging you for sex. Those who suffer from depression 99 out of 100 times take a massive hit to the sex drive. I would think more in the direction of him just being lazy.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:03 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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I just want to know why some men are content with not providing for their families

Hard to say "when" or "why" for that matter. Were they like this when they first got married maybe, or did they just decide to stop providing/being there for the families at some point in the marriage?

If they were always like this, then perhaps it was a learned trait. Or if they were not like this in the beginning but then became that way over time, then maybe something contributed to them pulling back and not providing so much. Maybe they simply are no longer interested in the marriage. That could be a number or reasons why that might be, depends on the situation I suppose.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:09 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Ahhh. . .now we are having a conversation.

Well, first of all, I do think I did help/contribute. I did do all of that. I food shopped, laundry, mopped, cleaned, child cared, paid bills, and ran kids to sports (and oh the sports they did). I don't think it was up to her standard. . .the house and the way I cleaned it for instance. The meals, etc.

Maybe part of the reason the marriage broke down is she felt I was unhappy with that arrangement too? I guess I never envisioned doing so much "Mr. Dad" kind of stuff.

It probably DID show through in my attitude.

I mean, I think, when I left abruptly, she must have felt a sharp, painful loss in a pair of hands that I was. She probably thought, "Oh crap, he did do a lot." I know her parents were pissed, who had to step in and pick up the slack. The woman I am dating, who complained like you, said the same thing when her husband and her separated and then realized, oh yeah, he did do a lot.

I would just ask you to take pause the next time you drive by a house that looks run down on teh outside.

Think about the $20 in your pocket that I have that says on old widow owns the place. You can always tell. It's a museum inside. The outside looks like a shack.

Anyway, I digress. . .I am not saying you are a feminist.

I am saying the movement in the 60's and 70's may explain the decline, that's all. Generally speaking that is.

I am not sure why you are having a hard time accepting that or at least knocking it around on the table, unless you have some personal bias for it.

You haven' offered an alternative explanation. Do you have one? I'd be interested.
@Scannerguard, I think environment plays a huge role in a man's attitude toward marriage and his responsibilities in a marriage. If a man is in an environment or surrounded by other men who share his lacking attitude, then he may think his beliefs are valid. However, if he's around men whom work hard and do all they can to try to make life easier for the family, then he may question his attitude and wonder if he's doing enough.

I also think that upbringing plays a significant role in a man's ideals of his responsibilities as a husband. If a man is raised in a broken home, no structure, and he hasn't had anyone to step in and show him how to take care of a family then how will he know?

In my situation, I'm not really sure what my husband's deal is. His father was around (until their parents divorced) and was a very hard working man. His mom didn't work and the father was the sole provider. I don't know where things went wrong in my personal situation. I really paid close attention to those who said wives have enabled their husbands. However, I still don't know what I was suppose to do differently if he simply refused to step up. So now I'm trying to understand if "depression" may play a role in a man's unwillingness to provide.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:12 PM   #170 (permalink)
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I think what it comes down to is that in both genders there are those who lack respect and understanding for the other gender. And too often they don't empathize enough to care either.

Being a guy, I do agree in that most men don't "want" to do the household chores that have traditionally been held by women, but part of making a marriage/family work (especially these days) means sacrifice.

If you're the type of guy that's not going to chip in and help out around the house while your woman is working both a career and handling everything around the house, then you shouldn't get married and have kids at all. Just date for the rest of your life and break it off to move on to the next woman when the one you're with wants a commitment from you.


I'll add that a good number of women don't want to do the household chores either, and a good number of men are starting to regard the household stuff as non-gender specific. It's not like most men think of those things as beneath them or "women's work" anymore. That applies to the American men I know. Other cultures are different. I live in a community with a large Portuguese population that is clinging to the old gender roles pretty resolutely. The women are supposed to serve the men. Many of the men don't help out with cooking or cleaning much. The compliant women are harder to find, though, so the approach that some men take is to visit the old country to find a more 'traditional' wife.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:15 PM   #171 (permalink)
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Default Re: When did men stop being men???

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Originally Posted by uphillbattle View Post
"Come on guys. What's going on with you?"

That was the first line of your first post. First impressions are quite important. The first thing any man who pulls his weight does when he sees that is goes on the defensive.

"Good for you. You're one of the few."

That was post number 52. While claiming you where not generalizing in one breath, you would say things like this. I did eventualy get the point and attempted to provide awnsers to your intended questions but by that point it just became a match of people seeing who could piss the other off more (yes, you included).
One thing you will learn on this site is that many people are verry passionate about things that they can relate too (obviously yourself, and myslef included if you see the first post I made responding to you). Many people get stuck on one phrase or sentance and apply it to everything you say, and in doing so it drowns out the orginal intent of what you are saying. If you don't wish to have the fire brought your way then you should probibly leave out lines such as the ones I mentioned.


One of my pet peeves is generalization. I always remind members that their experiences are not facts.

My husband is the main breadwinner, thank you very much! He is helping me pay for school, so that I can start a new career because the recession affected my industry. The man doesn't even want me to work while I am studying, so that I can concentrate on doing well and finishing quickly. My husband is a real man.

One of the few? Most men that I have known pull their weight financially. I only know one man that refuses to work and sponges off of his partner.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:17 PM   #172 (permalink)
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@GREAT POINTS!!! I guess considering my personal situation I have nothing to say to this. I've been so hurt and beat up over the years by my husband and reading your comments hit too close to home. I think I can put a check mark on each and everyone of those points you've made. I guess he and I both are emotionally abusive towards one another.

So it sounds to me that if a man feels defeated, then there's no fixing him. He's simply broken until he enters a different situation. And if a woman is holding so much resentment that she can bearly stand, then there's no fixing her either.

What about the men who aren't being emotionally abused and still don't step up?
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:19 PM   #173 (permalink)
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@Firstyeardown, read all the posts before you make any more comments. You're a bit too late in the discussion to come with your attacks.

I've been over that discussion too manytimes to go there again.

I'm happy for you and your husband.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:21 PM   #174 (permalink)
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What about the men who aren't being emotionally abused and still don't step up?
Maybe they need to get into some counseling. A professional that can help them learn coping, communication, and relationships skills.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:22 PM   #175 (permalink)
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I've seen no better article than this: (sorry if this was posted already)

The Futurist: The Misandry Bubble
Wow, for every one line of fact you have 2 lines of bull**** and 1 line of carefuly misplaced passed over fact. I wish I could be this good at propaganda.
Not that I disagree with everything the writer says (I tend to lean a bit on the conservative side) but damn, an ounce of objectivity would be nice.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:23 PM   #176 (permalink)
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So now I'm trying to understand if "depression" may play a role in a man's unwillingness to provide.
There's depression and Depression. Chronic depression can be quite debilitating. That could definitely play a part.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:25 PM   #177 (permalink)
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What about the men who aren't being emotionally abused and still don't step up?
At some point you have to lend credience to the fact that some people are just lazy peices of ****.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #178 (permalink)
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So it sounds to me that if a man feels defeated, then there's no fixing him. He's simply broken until he enters a different situation.
Something has to change, that's for sure. The same is true with resentment. If there's apathy on one side and resentment on the other, the spiral will continue.

The only way to "fix" things is for one person to break the cycle. For the wife (in the case I laid out above), it's a matter of making an effort at building her husband back up. Find the little and big ways of showing him that he's respected, and he'll likely start doing more to earn more of that respect.

Hard? Yep. But I promise that it's easier than the alternative.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:28 PM   #179 (permalink)
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At some point you have to lend credience to the fact that some people are just lazy peices of ****.


True. Not only are some just lazy at physical things, like jobs, or helping around the house, chores etc, but some are lazy when it comes to emotional stuff as well. Some people just can't be bothered to put in any kind of effort.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:31 PM   #180 (permalink)
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It may be how some people are raised. If someone grew up with a deadbeat parent, it could go one of two ways. They'll be lazy deadbeats too or they'll have a stronger drive because they want a better life than what they had growing up for both themselves and their families.

My husband and his brother are two such cases. They grew up very poor. Their father was a deadbeat who never held a job, and their mother was forced to work several low paying jobs just to keep a roof over their heads. Food was scarce and they often went without heat. Both men vowed their kids would never grow up like that. My husband and his brother are both hard working men who have, when necessary, taken on second jobs to make ends meet.

On the other hand, I have noticed a trend of people who grew up spoiled to be very entitled and less ambitious. Not all, just some, but that's the trend I see with adult aged kids never moving out of their parents house. They don't have to take care of anything, their parents do it all for them.

I don't know if your husband fits into either of these categories. I really don't have any personal experience with men like your husband. I grew up with a father who was a hard working, great provider who raised us to work for what we have and am married to a man who is also a hard working good provider. They've had other issues, but not being good providers weren't one of them! LOL

ETA: I guess I'm a very slow typer. Just saw after I posted that you mentioned your husband's upbringing.

Last edited by bubbly girl; 01-04-2012 at 04:44 PM.
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