I understand that the wife can always leave the situation, but it's not always just that simple. Sometimes circumstances prevent them from just packing up and leaving, and I'm not referring to love or even the children. Sometimes the situation itself won't allow her to just go at that moment. So what do those women do?
Please, I would love to hear of some examples of this.
I understand that the wife can always leave the situation, but it's not always just that simple. Sometimes circumstances prevent them from just packing up and leaving, and I'm not referring to love or even the children. Sometimes the situation itself won't allow her to just go at that moment. So what do those women do?
I see only these choices: Endure unhappily, accept, or try to force change of the spouse. Same approach for men and women. And by accept, I don't mean give a pass for bad behavior. I mean accept that the person is going to fall short of what we want in some areas. My W is terrible with housekeeping. She procrastinates until it gets bad, and then it is hard to get it all done. I do it in small bursts during the week so it never gets out of control. I suppose you could call that enabling, but you could also call it acceptance of her poor planning skills.
Of course, you can only do so much accepting and enduring, but you asked what you can do if you can't pick up and leave.
You can't put an electric collar on him and give him a shock when he's been bad.
I have a friend who's an engineer making good money. However, he and his wife divorced and he ended up having to pay so much in child support that he was no longer able to make his mortgage payments. He ended up selling his home and moving into a much smaller home just to make ends meet.
I definitely don't want to get into the whole child support payment topic, but I DEFINITELY disagree with you that "...divorces at the blue collar level are pretty on target for what you have to pay as a divorced parent without custody." One thing that I can say is I do pity the men whom child support payments are so extreme that it makes them feel as if children can be a financial punishment. This is especially for the men whom want to be good fathers to their children by not only financially supporting them after a divorce, but also actively being a part of their lives. I've seen SOOO many cases where I must admit that the monthly support payments that have been set up by the courts are too extreme. In some cases I've even asked the fathers how do they survive.
I believe the only time support payments are fair is when the spouse makes a really good amount of money and even then sometimes the payments are brutal.
I have a friend who's an engineer making good money. However, he and his wife divorced and he ended up having to pay so much in child support that he was no longer able to make his mortgage payments. He ended up selling his home and moving into a much smaller home just to make ends meet.
So again, I didn't mean to change the topic (especially since I've complained so much about others doing just that lol), but I had to say something about this.
I take a different stance, but then again, my mother barely got anything from our father, so I definately spent plenty of time being hungry.
Most people these days really stretch their expectation for what they consider to be the minimum standards for housing and cars. I don't think the kids should have to pay for the parent's own expectations, if these expectations aren't financially sound. The point is, 35 years ago, a guy making $70k a year(by today's standards) would've probably had about a 1,500 sq ft home, and maybe even just one car. Two at the most. Neither would be very new.
I guess my point is that downsizing isn't automatically a sign of being punished by the system.
Please, I would love to hear of some examples of this.
I have a friend who's married and share an apartment with her husband. She's doing everything for them and he takes complete advantage of it. She's planning to leave, but at this exact moment she can't because they're tied to their lease and there are reasons why she can't just go. 1 being that she can't afford to pay rent at 2 places. If she were to lease another apartment, she'd have to continue paying rent at the current place until that lease is up because her husband can't afford to and the lease is in her name. As long as they're married, he is legally obligated to anything that she owns even though the place is in her name. Therefore, she can't force him to move out and if she just stopped paying the rent and get evicted it impacts her credit (not his). 2 if she packed up and left without having an official legal separation in tact, she can be accused of abandonment in court and increase the chances of having to pay alimony (due to not providing her spouse with "efficient" time to prepare for the separation) and risk losing everything that he's unwilling to give up (technically she "abandonned" her things to begin with). 3 she can't afford a lawyer because most lawyers in her township wants a minimum of $400+ for a consultation, and therefore, her only option is to do her own research to learn her rights as a wife.
Basically with her financial situation and to prevent getting even more financially doomed and risk losing all of her property, she's planning to wait until their lease is up, file for a legal separation, and then go from there. Once the separation is in tact, he will no longer have rights to her property.
So this is a perfect example of when neither kids nor love plays a role in a reason a wife can't just pack up and go right then and there.
I take a different stance, but then again, my mother barely got anything from our father, so I definately spent plenty of time being hungry.
Most people these days really stretch their expectation for what they consider to be the minimum standards for housing and cars. I don't think the kids should have to pay for the parent's own expectations, if these expectations aren't financially sound. The point is, 35 years ago, a guy making $70k a year(by today's standards) would've probably had about a 1,500 sq ft home, and maybe even just one car. Two at the most. Neither would be very new.
I guess my point is that downsizing isn't automatically a sign of being punished by the system.
After reviewing my example, I realize that I didn't give enough background to my friend's situation in order for you to understand why I feel he was screwed.
His exwife (wife at the time) was so unfair in their marriage. She did all in her power to make life a living hell for him. She'd take their daughter for weeks at a time without telling him where they were going or even answering his calls while they were away. He tried so many things to understand why she hated him so much. They went to counseling several times and even reached out to her family in order to get to the root of the problem. However, nothing worked and she grew even more resentful.
She started doing evil things like taking thousands of dollars from their joint account and hiding the money. She even deliberately charged up his credit card in an attempt to hurt him financially.
One day he just broke down to her and begged her to tell him why she hated him so much. He informed her that he still loved her so much and that he'd do anything to change her mind about him if only she'd just tell him why she was so resentful towards him. She only told him then that she'd never love him.
Well he begin to suspect she was having an affair and turns out she was. That's why her feelings became so ill towards him. She was no longer in love with him because her heart was with another man. However that still didn't explain why she wanted to destroy him financially.
Well LONGER story short, she eventually filed for divorce and took everything from him. She cleaned out their bank account, got half of the value of the house, tons of money in child support, and she still uses their daughter as a weapon to hurt him.
I personally think it isn't fair. He's so sad these days. She has definitely won. She has stripped my friend of his being. I don't think he knows who he is anymore.
Seriously, what's going on guys???? Is it the food you're eating or what????
The family dynamic has changed. Many male dominated industries are becoming more and more automated. During war time a ballistic missile is much more cost effective than a troop of men.
Men are losing their place in the world, and dont know what to do.
The family dynamic has changed. Many male dominated industries are becoming more and more automated. During war time a ballistic missile is much more cost effective than a troop of men.
Men are losing their place in the world, and dont know what to do.
Men are losing their place in the world? Um, they're still running it! If men are losing, whose winning?
Men are losing their place in the world? Um, they're still running it! If men are losing, whose winning?
Traditional gender roles are down the toilets. Women are more-or-less equal to men.
Considering women can do the same things as men, this means that traditionally male dominated industries will now have a proportion of females employed, offsetting the same amount of males. IE. Men are losing their place in the world.
Traditionally men have been the breadwinners in families, but we know this isnt the case nowadays.
unfertilized eggs can be turned into semen, allowing lesbian couples to have real biological children.
Its tough to be a "Man" in a world that doesnt need men.
But yes, we do run the world. And its only because you have babies. This is how we even it out.
Many of my closest friends are guys. I love them all and they are awesome so yes, I can rip on them accordingly. They are all white, most are upper middle class and in white collar careers. One in particular moans constantly about his "plight" in life. He didn't get to purchase the boat he wanted because they have a baby after years of failed IVF and later adopted as if he had no say in the matter. He made partner years after he should have because of a woman, not because he would cut out early to golf. He doesn't own the mansion he feels he deserves because his wife no longer works(she was a lawyer too).....he insisted that she quit and be a SAHM.
Entitled is how I would describe him. I often wonder how he would deal if he ACTUALLY lost everything.
Unless I missed something, what is preventing men from being men?
Traditional gender roles are down the toilets. Women are more-or-less equal to men.
Considering women can do the same things as men, this means that traditionally male dominated industries will now have a proportion of females employed, offsetting the same amount of males. IE. Men are losing their place in the world.
Traditionally men have been the breadwinners in families, but we know this isnt the case nowadays.
unfertilized eggs can be turned into semen, allowing lesbian couples to have real biological children.
Its tough to be a "Man" in a world that doesnt need men.
But yes, we do run the world. And its only because you have babies. This is how we even it out.
Traditionally we walked on all fours. Evolution is key to success as it is for all animals. Men are no longer breadwinners? They still earn more money for the same job performed. Men aren't needed? If they aren't needed then why are boys favored in place of girls in just about all 4 corners of the Earth?
Men aren't losing anything. What they chose to give up is a different story.
I see only these choices: Endure unhappily, accept, or try to force change of the spouse. Same approach for men and women. And by accept, I don't mean give a pass for bad behavior. I mean accept that the person is going to fall short of what we want in some areas. My W is terrible with housekeeping. She procrastinates until it gets bad, and then it is hard to get it all done. I do it in small bursts during the week so it never gets out of control. I suppose you could call that enabling, but you could also call it acceptance of her poor planning skills.
Of course, you can only do so much accepting and enduring, but you asked what you can do if you can't pick up and leave.
You can't put an electric collar on him and give him a shock when he's been bad.
I like the shock collar idea... maybe I'll try that next
The fact is that some people will not respond no matter what their spouse does. So it comes down to a choice of just accepting them sitting there playing games all day or kicking them to the curb.
Traditionally we walked on all fours. Evolution is key to success as it is for all animals. Men are no longer breadwinners? They still earn more money for the same job performed. Men aren't needed? If they aren't needed then why are boys favored in place of girls in just about all 4 corners of the Earth?
Men aren't losing anything. What they chose to give up is a different story.
Traditionally we walked on all fours. Evolution is key to success as it is for all animals. Men are no longer breadwinners? They still earn more money for the same job performed. Men aren't needed? If they aren't needed then why are boys favored in place of girls in just about all 4 corners of the Earth?
Men aren't losing anything. What they chose to give up is a different story.
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Re: When did men stop being men??? 
If men are losing, whose winning?
