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When did men stop being men???

46K views 574 replies 72 participants last post by  nice777guy 
#1 ·
Come on guys. What's going on with you? At first I thought it was just my situation but the more threads I read on TAM, the more I'm realizing that there are so many men whom are comfortable allowing their wives to take care of the household while they do the bear minimum to make the marriage work. There are so many men who don't work at all or are working but hardly contributing financially (and in most cases by choice). Also, I've encountered many situations where not only doesn't the husband hardly pay any bills, but he also doesn't lift a finger around the house to make up for his lack in financial support.

What is becoming of our men today? Why are more and more men accepting their wives to be breadwinner and home maker while they sit and reap the benefits? Why does it seem as if many men no longer have pride or back bone? I remember when a man refused to accept money from his wife because he was short. He would work 2 jobs before he had his wife taking over his role in the household. Nowadays, it seems as if more men are content with being "slave masters." They sit on their tails and give out orders while their wives does it all. AND to top it off, have an audacity to complain about his "lacking" sex life when she's too resentful and or tired to give out.

And this gets me too. I hear so many of you claiming that your wives won't allow you to be a "man." First of all, no one can allow you to be a man (let's just get that straight). Does she block your manhood by removing your scr0t0ms and play baseball with them using your peni$ as a bat??? Just asking…Lol.

Why has your decision making capability manifested insecurities in your wives? I'm sick of guys thinking that they deserve a promotion just for the sake of being a man. NOOOO. It doesn't work that way. Husband or not, you must earn your position (PERIOD). You have to show that you will make great choices for the greater good of the family and lead the pack successfully before you get to stamp everything in ink. You must confirm that when the going gets tough, you get tougher and will successfully guide the family through the toughtest of storms. You don't just get to make all the final decisions just because you’re the husband.

I hear the same thing from my husband. He claims I don't "allow" him to be a man. I make all of the money, he hasn't done absolutely anything to try to bring in more income on his behalf to support the family, every final decision he makes seems to only benefit him, yet I'm suppose to sit there and knowingly get burned by allowing him to make a decision that I won't benefit from at all just because he's my husband. Ok, believe that if you want to.

Seriously, what's going on guys???? Is it the food you're eating or what????
 
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#60 ·
A couple days ago, Me & 2 of my sons sat & watched a movie called "Courageous" (at the $1 Theater)- this was all about being a MAN of integrity, becoming the Best father possible....

.... it was about loss, it was about mistakes, it was about hope, it was about family, and resolution. It was inspirational. My oldest & 2nd son loved this movie, I sat & watched with them as the rest of my family was off watching "Puss & Boots".

These men were Police Officers, it shows how strong they were -how brutal & dangerous the job is, owning up to their failings as husbands & fathers, and striving to make it right, some of it was very sappy, I even was laughing feeling it was "TOO MUCH" -and that it alot coming from me!

But they all found a new direction in life, they were all tested in something and overcame ... this was made by the creators of "Fireproof" so it was a christian based movie, but none the less. It was very good, the message in how these men took a stand to be better MEN. What a better world it would all be -if such examples were lived.

It is a courageous message for today.

Courageous (2011) - Official Trailer [HD] - YouTube
 
#61 ·
@AFEH, I'm definitely not going to feed into your ridiculousness because clearly you have serious issues outside of possibly being a deadbeat husband. You wouldn't have to run miles from me because if you were in my presence, I probably wouldn't even acknowledge your existence in the first place.

Please don't make anymore posts on this thread. This is a serious topic involving adults. I'd appreciate it if you were to discuss the topic at hand and not attack my character (which you know NOTHING about) or simply go to the men's lounge and try to hook up with some of them. That is if you're man enough to recognize a real man and hope that he won't "…run a mile from you."
 
#64 ·
By your definition, I’m a “real man”. In that I always ensured that I covered the costs of my myself, wife, children, home, furniture, utilities, cars, holidays etc. etc. My wife was a stay at home mum in the first 10 years of a 42 year relationship and worked from then on. Whatever she earned she spent as she wished. Money for the family was my responsibility because that’s the way I’d have it.

In addition to your “financial requirements” of being a “real man” I also took care of the house maintenance, garden, nursing my wife when she was ill, all those sort of things. And my wife was, in this real man’s eyes, a “real woman”. So real she managed to keep me by her side for 42 years. And of course, my elder son is a “real man” just like me. They are about, these real men.



Look. You are blaming your husband for the position your marriage is in. Well guess what. You will never change your husband, the only person you can change is yourself. And I was saying to you, as a “real man” (in your own terms) I would not want to know you based on your initial post. It really is that simple.

But then again I’m “old school”. My son of 39 years though is very much like me in that he has the same qualities and beliefs, he will always be able to cover his life’s costs and will never abdicate that responsibility to anyone else including his wife, just like his dad.

Once a man has abdicated financial responsibility for his and his family’s life he has lost so much of what being a man is all about, at least as far as I’m concerned. That’s what feminists who’d have stay at home dads just don’t understand and the dads only find it out later when it’s probably too late.
 
#63 ·
Quote:
Me: When some men exhibit "feminine" traits, they are called weak, yet it is admirable if a woman exhibits traditional "masculine" traits. You: I totally agree with this. It's an unfair bias that has been embedded in society.

I agree RJ, feminine traits are still used as put downs...

Quote:
Me: Men, on the other hand, if they didn't want to, they didn't have to consider their wives emotional needs. Why should they? The women really had no choice but to stay in an awful marriage. Women had no choice, due to financial reason, to leave. This treatment towards wives has been passed down through the ages. Now though, times have changed, women will not and do not have to accept being ignored and our needs and roles being downplayed.
You: Actually never looked at it this way, but it definitely makes sense. That's why back then the husbands would have affairs, be emotionally and mentally unavailable, and so on and the wives would remain in the marriage. It was all due to dependency. The woman had no choice but to accept all the conditions in the marriage because she had no other means to survive otherwise. Also, divorce was looked down upon and a woman could even risk being shunned by family or even friends as a result. Therefore she stayed and accepted being ignored (in some cases) for the sake of survival. However things changed a bit in that women became greater or equal financial contributors in the household. Yet she was still expected (in some cases) to maintain the home as well. Now it seems like time is evolving even further to where SOME men aren't being financial contributors, homemakers, or anything. They're just living with no purpose. They serve absolutely no added value to the family and in many cases become more of a burden than anything else.

Sadly, I think some men, still see the relation aspect, household chores and child care as " woman's work" and her responsibility alone. So even if she is working out side the home, all other responsibilities still fall on her shoulders. I've seen this with many men...sadly
 
#65 ·
Wow. I could write a book on this. But since you said "when" and not "why" I'll focus on just one thing - then and now. I'm not so sure that then was better in any way except that it was simpler in that roles were more clearly defined. That and the fact that many families could live comfortably on a single wage. Now, the roles are fluid which makes things more complex, which increases the chances and problems of miscommunication. A single wage is no longer sufficient for a middle class lifestyle in many cases, so again, the pressure ramps up. There's more pressure and more people cracking under it. I'm not sure that it affects men more than women.

In my own case, my W is afflicted with "have it all' syndrome. I do over half of the cooking, cleaning, and food shopping, almost all of the yard work, plus big stuff like building decks and patios, and finishing basements. Is the W happy with that? Nope. She's unhappy that she has job stress and not enough free time and she projects it on me. I've told her to cut out the things that she volunteers for and not to expect that the people that you work with will be competent or nice. No go. She wants the world to be perfect and ordered just the way she wants it. She wants me to be perfect and just the way she thinks I should be. I'm far from perfect, but that doesn't bother me because I always strive to be better. But, I am paying the price for her unrealistic expectations.

I guess I could say. "when did women start thinking they could have it all, and why haven't they realized that it is impossible?"

Sorry to take this in a different direction, but it strikes me as a parallel trend to "men stopping being men."
 
#68 ·
I'm not so sure that then was better in any way except that it was simpler in that roles were more clearly defined. That and the fact that many families could live comfortably on a single wage. Now, the roles are fluid which makes things more complex, which increases the chances and problems of miscommunication. A single wage is no longer sufficient for a middle class lifestyle in many cases, so again, the pressure ramps up. There's more pressure and more people cracking under it. :iagree:

I guess I could say. "when did women start thinking they could have it all, and why haven't they realized that it is impossible?" There you go...a topic for a new thread. This is about the men, but I'm not suggesting that there aren't failures on the woman's behalf.
 
#67 ·
@AFEH, I'm really confused. How am I blaming my husband for the position in my marriage? I never blamed him for anything. If you read the original post, you'd see that I only brought him up to emphasize the point of the topic. I originally started my post off by referring to many of the other posts that I retrieved from different threads in other forums. Majority of my original post focuses on the information that I've retrieved from TAM. I don't know why so many men are convinced that I've based my perception solely off of my situation. I've made my conclusion based on so many women on TAM who have discussed this topic as issues in their marriages.

I'm so grateful that you were a providing husband. Sounds like you did EVERYTHING and didn't leave your wife to do much at all. I imagine she's a very satisfied woman. Also, because based on your definition of a "real man" and the fact that you've totally lived up to that, I would imagine that your son would follow in the same footsteps which is also GREAT. At least we know for sure that there are two men in this world who are real.

The fact still remains that so many husbands simply aren't stepping up and taking care of their families as you and your son have. I can't stress enough that I'm not referring to all men. If you don't fit into this subset of men, that great but you can't tell me that you haven't noticed this situation and that you don't have an opinion about it.

Also, I keep getting responses from both men and women who're questioning the role(s) that I've played in my household to promote my husband's lack of providing. The truth is, I have no idea how I could've promoted it. Perhaps when I stepped up and payed all of our bills because he refused to do so. Or maybe when I decided to clean the house because he'd allow a mess to build up while he sat and watched sports or played the video game. Maybe I promoted it when I made arrangements for us to see pastors, counselors, therapists, family, and even friends in order to help us understand each other's perspective, expectations, and lacking in the marriage. However, instead of utilizing these individuals as tools to make us better, he took the opportunity to convince everyone that I'm the blame for all of his own personal downfalls. I may have even promoted his nonproviding behavior when I offered to pay in full for his education for him to go back to school to persue a degree of some sort in order to provide more for the family. However, instead of taking advantage of my offer, he made a thousand excuses as to why it isn't feasible to go back. It could be possible that I enabled his behavior when I suggested that maybe I should go back to school and obtain a Master's degree so that I can increase my income and bring in more for the family, but instead of even considering that option, he became jealous and asked me, "why is it that you're the only one who could get an education?" WHAT???? I probably enhanced his behavioor when I took us on all of those vacations (completely on my dime) in hope that it would draw us together and motivate him to try harder so that he could do things like that for the family, but instead he'd raise he!! on the trip and we'd have to end it early.

People I can go on and on. Trust and believe I didn't just role over and conclude that many men have given up on their roles as leaders. I've gone through it, SEVERAL other women have gone through it, and I'm very certain that many of you have seen it as well. It's a sad fact.
 
#70 ·
The fact still remains that so many husbands simply aren't stepping up and taking care of their families as you and your son have. I can't stress enough that I'm not referring to all men. If you don't fit into this subset of men, that great but you can't tell me that you haven't noticed this situation and that you don't have an opinion about it.
RJ, personally I can really feel for you as it sounds like you have a dud for a husband, and maybe the point of this thread is just to vent.

That being said, the way you are portraying things is very prejudicial and sexist IMO. There are a lot of women that have turned their back on their husbands and families too.

I've seen one of my friends destroy his family due to alcoholism, and I've seen another be ripped apart by his wife's sexual neglect. Some people just aren't cut out to be a good partner - people suck sometimes. It's not just men.
 
#69 ·
Well I have to admit to being a little confused too.

If the ideals of feminism, such as social equality, equal pay for equal work, equal employment opportunity for equal qualifications, equal advancement for equal merit, and the elimination of sexism are morally defensible, (And I certainly think they are) then how is this a gender issue at all?

Isn't a failure to materially provide for your family more a failure as a parent, a spouse and a human being rather than failure as a man?
 
#71 ·
This thread isn't focusing on the "ideals of feminism." This is about men who aren't doing their part(s) for the success of the family. It isn't even about "failure to materially provide for your family." Many men aren't providing in ANY WAY…not materially, emotionally, mentally, or financially. This thread focuses on the MEN who are simply allowing their wives to DO IT ALL while they refuse to play any role in the marriage.

The question is why do you think this is the case? I'm not really understanding what the debate is here. It's a FACT that some men aren't contributing. What's the argument folks?
 
#75 ·
In reading this I find it intresting that a man is not considered a "real man" unless he is a provider in some form. Is that to say that a woman who doesn't do the housework or take care of the kids is not a "real woman"?
R.J. I am also courious as to why you would believe that most men are not "real men"? Maybe it's just the people I surround myself with but I see quite a few "real men" within my friends and family. I must admit that the ones who are not do stick out like a sore thumb.
 
#79 · (Edited)
RJ, I'm curious as to what a "real man" means to you. Can you list a few things that you feel what a real man would be?

If thats already been done or said, I apologize, because I have not read all of the responses yet.
 
#81 · (Edited)
Here's a thought, RJ: Stop projecting the failings of your husband/marriage on everyone else with your rambling screeds and overgeneralizations.

If your husband is as bad as you claim - and I'm sure you're not exaggerating or being one-sided (cough cough) - then I feel bad for you. But most husbands and fathers aren't like that. Please stop casting aspersions on an entire gender because of your difficulties with one of us.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#83 ·
Here's a thought, RJ: Stop projecting the failings of your husband/marriage on everyone else with your rambling screeds and overgeneralizations.

If your husband is as bad as you claim - and I'm sure you're not exaggerating our being one-sided (cough cough) - then I feel bad for you. But most husbands and fathers aren't like that. Please stop casting aspersions on an entire gender because of your difficulties with one of us.
Posted via Mobile Device
She has said atleast 15 times that I can count that it is not ALL men that she speaks of, just most.
 
#82 · (Edited)
Some men have finally reached the F*** it point.

I've seen it in many of my friends. The surrender.

No matter what you do, she will never be happy. If you meet all of her requirements for happiness, she moves the goal line.

The car isn't new enough. The house isn't big enough. You don't do enough housework, you don't spend enough time with the kids.

Every conversation starts with "I want you to know I'm angry with you about........"

She hates her job, she hates her mother, she hates her boss, she fed up with the kids, drives angry, stays pissed off.

She surrounds herself with other women who can only speak in man-bash.

Then comes the day when the men realize that they are trying to shovel a whole in the ocean. The woman they loved has turned into an angry, sexless, hostile, opponent, instead of the loving partner they saw in the past.

The spirit is broken and the man begins to introvert. You can see it in their faces, the downward eyes, the shuffle along behind her, the hunched shoulders.

Now, to be sure, that does not describe all women, or most women, and is not intended to be a statement about any one woman. However, it is not an uncommon thing.
 
#85 ·
Some men have finally reached the F*** it point.

I've seen it in many of my friends. The surrender.

No matter what you do, she will never be happy. If you meet all of her requirements for happiness, she moves the goal line.

The car isn't new enough. The house isn't big enough. You don't do enough housework, you don't spend enough time with the kids.

Every conversation starts with "I want you to know I'm angry with you about........"

She hates her job, she hates her mother, she hates her boss, she fed up with the kids, drives angry, stays pissed off.

She surrounds herself with other women who can only speak in man-bash.

Then comes the day when the men realize that they are trying to shovel a whole in the ocean. The woman they loved has turned into an angry, sexless, hostile, opponent, instead of the loving partner they saw in the past.

The spirit is broken and the man begins to introvert. You can see it in their faces, the downward eyes, the shuffle along behind her, the hunched shoulders.

No to be sure that does not describe all women, or most women, and is not intended to be a statement about any one woman. However, it is not an uncommon thing.
I have to wonder if maybe some men married into a woman already being like that from the get go, OR if maybe some men were a contributing factor as to to why their wives changed. And perhaps vice versa.
 
#88 ·
some people are lazy and indifferent. can't see the forest through the trees type of people.

men and women husbands and wives!

if you happen to get hooked up with one of these type of people then its a rough road for sure.

my advice is to not put up with it....easier said than done for sure.

you don't have to be an a** about it just start calmly stating the facts whenever the situation arises if he don't catch on then its decision time either you love him with all his flaws or its a deal breaker only you know the answer and there is no wrong answer.
 
#98 ·
This thread should be titled "When did my man stop being a man???" Your gender-profiling shows your lack of understanding about men in general, which means you don't have any position to make claims against us in the first place.

Usually a problem like this in a relationship is that there's either a lack of communication or a lack of understanding, or both. You both need to get to a point where you're having civilized, mutual and heart-felt discussions without arguing about what each other's needs are. you need to both feel like you're on the same level of playing field in the relationship. It's important that when you have these discussions that you come to the table with some of your own self-observations so the other person doesn't feel like it's a one-sided blame game and takes the defensive. You need to agree to work on things together, because when you work as a team you develop mutual appreciation for each other.

I'm sure your man has a few opinions about you as well... are you prepared to hear those with an open mind and try to work on yourself too?
 
#105 ·
This thread should be titled "When did my man stop being a man???" Your gender-profiling shows your lack of understanding about men in general, which means you don't have any position to make claims against us in the first place. I think it's amazing how many men are doing their best to distract others from discussing the topic of this thread instead of just focusing on the underlying questions. You can argue that I'm generalizing (some, many, most, a few, etc.), being a feminist, judging all men…WHATEVER. However, for those out there with an opinion about the topic AND NOT THE TITLE, please discuss

I'm sure your man has a few opinions about you as well... are you prepared to hear those with an open mind and try to work on yourself too?
I've spent 3 years listening to how much of a f*** up I've been, but not one time have I heard what I can do to make things better. It's all a blame game for him and I've realized it's only to avoid taking accountability for the things he KNOWS he has done to hurt the marriage. So to answer your question, NO I'm not prepared to hear his opinions about me any longer. Additionally, because I obviously could never have a discussion with him about any of my issues, I decided to obtain opinions from the public in hope they could help me understand the possible views of not only my husband, but so many other husbands who are not providing as well.
 
#99 ·
I think it's amazing how many men are doing their best to distract others from discussing the topic of this thread instead of just focusing on the underlying questions. You can argue that I'm generalizing (some, many, most, a few, etc.), being a feminist, judging all men…WHATEVER. However, for those out there with an opinion about the topic AND NOT THE TITLE, please discuss. If you need me to define (once again) the overall questions, they are "why do you think that so many men have accepted their wives doing all things to make the family successful and not contributing themselves? Why do you think that many of those men have become content with not supporting or providing in their households and would actually watch it fail instead of stepping up?"

Let's not get into generalizations, feminism, or anything else. Let's just focus on the questions. Even if you disagree with the questions, tell me why. Please don't say that it doesn't apply to you, your friends, your daddy, your uncle, your husband…etc. Just tell me why you agree or disagree.
 
#106 · (Edited)
I think it's amazing how many men are doing their best to distract others from discussing the topic of this thread instead of just focusing on the underlying questions. You can argue that I'm generalizing (some, many, most, a few, etc.), being a feminist, judging all men…WHATEVER. However, for those out there with an opinion about the topic AND NOT THE TITLE, please discuss. If you need me to define (once again) the overall questions, they are "why do you think that so many men have accepted their wives doing all things to make the family successful and not contributing themselves? Why do you think that many of those men have become content with not supporting or providing in their households and would actually watch it fail instead of stepping up?"

Let's not get into generalizations, feminism, or anything else. Let's just focus on the questions. Even if you disagree with the questions, tell me why. Please don't say that it doesn't apply to you, your friends, your daddy, your uncle, your husband…etc. Just tell me why you agree or disagree.
You mean that type of situation is new? That there’s more men like that than there ever were before?

What are you basing that on? Where are your figures for it, say 19th vs. 20th century or 1960s vs. 2000/10. How can you possibly make such a sweeping generalisation? Me as an old timer I’d say Feminism and Liberalism has cost us all (tax payers at least) a great deal and we haven’t seen anything as yet.

But as I said before you’ll find lazy, bone idle men no matter what decade or century you look into or lived in. Thing is why did you pick him? Maybe all Feminism and Liberalism has done is made lazy, bone idle men even more lazy and even more bone idle?
 
#110 · (Edited)
"why do you think that so many men have accepted their wives doing all things to make the family successful and not contributing themselves? Why do you think that many of those men have become content with not supporting or providing in their households and would actually watch it fail instead of stepping up?"

OK, I'll give it a shot.

I believe your use of the word "many" is not accurate. The vast majority of men that I come in contact with try their best to be good husbands, providers, partners, etc.

There will always be a percentage of failures in any group. I believe that you are over emphasizing that percentage because, unfortunately, you got one.

Basing your opinions of men, marriages, relationships on the general topics found on this site (and others like it) gives a skewed view.

It would be similar to going to an automotive help site and deciding that a disproportionately high number of that car brand has problems. Or, that a disproportionately high number of that brand suffer from one, single, issue more than others.

People don't often go to sites like this to say how wonderful their situation is. It is more likely that the site attracts the issues.
 
#114 ·
RJ I've really tried to avoid this thread because of the gender bias that seems so apparent, however you keep asking one primary question here about what causes a man to lose his drive/ambition, so I will offer my opinion. There are 2 possibilities that come to mind 1) he is really effective at being lazy and is actually getting all his needs met without having to do any work to meet yours, or 2) he has depression. If its the former it means you have to start establishing and enforcing your boundaries and that is probably best accomplished with the help of a pro MC, if its the latter he needs to fix himself meaning medication and/or therapy - he won't have the initiative to start this himself without major prompting, such as you establishing and enforcing some boundaries.

So, IMO if I didn't make it clear enough in the last paragraph, you have one course of action regardless and that is to establish and enforce your boundaries in this relationship, and if he acts within those boundaries to accept without criticism.
 
#118 · (Edited)
I think there are two issues going on here. . .

A. Her marriage. To that, I answer - whatever. Won't get into that. Could be depression - sounds reasonable. The topic is a political question.

B. The politics.

The OP is postulating that men's "work ethic" has changed over the years, since oh, about circa 1960.

She wants a reason as to perhaps why. . .I am offering a reason. (or affirming what someone else offered). I am not necessarily offering an excuse.

Now, you can buy it or not buy it but I say millions of women displacing men from the workforce/breadwinner position has had repercussions beyond just a few cents/hour difference at work.

I'm just giving my take on why the 60s revolution happened.
Yeah, and how's that working for America lately?

Look, I am not, nor have I ever said, feminism didn't need to happen in some form or shape. . .nor do I think it should be eradicated.

We just need something different. We need a new generation of women to lead women back into the home and the art of homemaking/childrearing, while we have a new generation of men instill a positive work ethic and that sense of provision we lost.

I confess I have gone through periods of inadequacy and feeling irrelevant; it can certainly zap your work ethic.

I went through a time when I heard, "Wow, he's a great father" to mean "Wow, he can't provide." I go so tired of hearing "You're a great father" I actually told people to stop saying it.

Not saying I was right, but gee whiz, I don't want to be doing doctor visits, cooking, cleaning, laundry, food shopping. I WANT TO WORK.

Now, as a single father, I am doing both. . .just kinda only solved half of my problem.

Judge me however you want. I can take it. But I just want to be able to work 40, 50, 60 hour work weeks and I can't, because I have to be changing diapers and wiping noses. Yes, I admit I am jealous of my father's generation, who didn't have to put up with that crap and they get their daughter's undying "eyelash batting" about what great men their Daddy's were. Hell, Daddy never changed your diaper and never you took you to the doctor.

I may as well wear a housecoat and curlers (except I have no hair :) )

I'm kind of "free associating" here. . .not really a concise reply, but just giving you raw emotions on perhaps why the male work ethic has declined over the years.
 
#121 ·
Scannerguard, you said you can take the judgement so here goes...

The OP is postulating that men's "work ethic" has changed over the years, since oh, about circa 1960.

She wants a reason as to perhaps why. . .I am offering a reason. (or affirming what someone else offered). I am not necessarily offering an excuse.

Now, you can buy it or not buy it but I say millions of women displacing men from the workforce/breadwinner position has had repercussions beyond just a few cents/hour difference at work.
Because those men can't get used to the idea that their civilization as a whole is evolving. They'd rather stay behind, left in the times where oppression gave them the advantage of not having as much responsibilities or involvement in the home. It's a time where 1 salary (albeit perhaps on 60 hours/week) could still provide an income support whereas now even today it cannot. Most people need a 2-income salary family now, the notion of "breadwinner" is essentially devolving, mostly to those only rich enough to relegate themselves as the upper class in society.

Today's more modern society has evolved in such that it thrusts both men and women into an "equal responsibility" level regarding the entire relationship as a whole; both financially and emotionally for each other and their children.

It's more about being a human being these days and simply "pulling your weight" on the whole rather than delegating responsibilities off as if one was not fit to perform them.

Not saying I was right, but gee whiz, I don't want to be doing doctor visits, cooking, cleaning, laundry, food shopping. I WANT TO WORK.
Then you are not mentally appreciative of the responsibilities of a modern day provider. Rather than taking pride in what it means to support your children as a parent, these requirements for their health and maturation have become the bane of your existence.

Yes, I admit I am jealous of my father's generation, who didn't have to put up with that crap and they get their daughter's undying "eyelash batting" about what great men their Daddy's were. Hell, Daddy never changed your diaper and never you took you to the doctor.
So you're resentful that society has modernized to the point where you don't get to oppress others while doing less work around the home. Do you even enjoy being a father/provider?

...not really a concise reply, but just giving you raw emotions on perhaps why the male work ethic has declined over the years.
Nope, just your own work ethic decline...
 
#120 ·
Now I'm about to "GENERALIZE." You men are ridiculous. No matter how many times I say that I'm not specifically referring to my own situation, but also those of the women on TAM, you still keep leading back to me specifically. I'm about done with this thread because it's getting no where. I don't need to retitle my thread anything except what it is. I wanted to know why people think that some (many, a few, and which other adjective you wanna use to describe a subset) men refuse to step up and help their families make it and all I got was a bunch of men accusing me of generalizing them all because of my husband. This is absurd.

To those who did focus on the questions at hand I do appreciate the discussion. It was nice to read your views, challenge a few, and gain a different perspective. To those who butchered my thread with all the claims of feminism, generalizations, corrupted title, and everything else, thanks a lot for nothing. Your points still haven't been made. The only thing you've proven is that "many men can't focus on any specific topic."
 
#122 ·
@Bottled Up, I know that I said I was done, but I had to comment on this. All I wanted from people was to express their opinions about why they believed the reasons are behind some men not playing a meaningful role in their marriages. I can't believe that "Scannerguard" can come on here and express his strong opinions about his perception of a man's role and he's hardly getting attacked. Yet I pose a question and every man on this site is out to get me.

That's crazy. Lol.
 
#124 ·
I saw where some people did give you some suggestions/ thoughts on your original post. I was one of them several pages back.

However, if you find what some people said offensive, or they are just not getting what you're trying to say/ask, then its best to focus on the ones you feel get what you're saying and are helpful. You seem to have replied back mostly to those who ruffled your feathers.
 
#138 ·
Okay. . .I'll admit I am not following this thread. . .there seems to be a lot of fighting about generalizing (one complaint) and the charge of feminism (another complaint).

I think it's okay to generalize. The OP generalized and I think that's okay.

You can either make a fair generalization (and I think it was fair), or an unfair generalization.

I can then offer an explanation to the generalization (which I did). Generalizations get general explanations (feminism).

You can accept the theory or not.

I mean, what's another theory? A strange "Work ethic declination" gene entered the Y chromosome as a result of nuclear testing in the 1960's? Oprah? Alien abduction?

Why do you think the male work ethic has declined (or seemingly so)? (as a generalization)
 
#142 ·
Yep, I followed this thread.

I don't normally posty in the Ladies Lounge because I figure that it is more for women talking to women. But, the thread title caught my eye.

I honestly tried to answer your question, and you quickly bullet pointed in red and twisted everything I said. (post 31)

You accused one person of being a dead beat husband. Then accuse people of hitting you below the belt.

Your answers have become more angry, more insulting, more condescending. The passive-aggressive quips ( I thought you were one of the better ones on here, but I suppose not) you throw out so often are just more anger projected outward.

You have raised the hostility level while many other have tried calmly to give you the opinions you said you wanted.

The truth is you don't want an answer to your original question. You just want confrontation.
 
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