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When did men stop being men???

46K views 574 replies 72 participants last post by  nice777guy 
#1 ·
Come on guys. What's going on with you? At first I thought it was just my situation but the more threads I read on TAM, the more I'm realizing that there are so many men whom are comfortable allowing their wives to take care of the household while they do the bear minimum to make the marriage work. There are so many men who don't work at all or are working but hardly contributing financially (and in most cases by choice). Also, I've encountered many situations where not only doesn't the husband hardly pay any bills, but he also doesn't lift a finger around the house to make up for his lack in financial support.

What is becoming of our men today? Why are more and more men accepting their wives to be breadwinner and home maker while they sit and reap the benefits? Why does it seem as if many men no longer have pride or back bone? I remember when a man refused to accept money from his wife because he was short. He would work 2 jobs before he had his wife taking over his role in the household. Nowadays, it seems as if more men are content with being "slave masters." They sit on their tails and give out orders while their wives does it all. AND to top it off, have an audacity to complain about his "lacking" sex life when she's too resentful and or tired to give out.

And this gets me too. I hear so many of you claiming that your wives won't allow you to be a "man." First of all, no one can allow you to be a man (let's just get that straight). Does she block your manhood by removing your scr0t0ms and play baseball with them using your peni$ as a bat??? Just asking…Lol.

Why has your decision making capability manifested insecurities in your wives? I'm sick of guys thinking that they deserve a promotion just for the sake of being a man. NOOOO. It doesn't work that way. Husband or not, you must earn your position (PERIOD). You have to show that you will make great choices for the greater good of the family and lead the pack successfully before you get to stamp everything in ink. You must confirm that when the going gets tough, you get tougher and will successfully guide the family through the toughtest of storms. You don't just get to make all the final decisions just because you’re the husband.

I hear the same thing from my husband. He claims I don't "allow" him to be a man. I make all of the money, he hasn't done absolutely anything to try to bring in more income on his behalf to support the family, every final decision he makes seems to only benefit him, yet I'm suppose to sit there and knowingly get burned by allowing him to make a decision that I won't benefit from at all just because he's my husband. Ok, believe that if you want to.

Seriously, what's going on guys???? Is it the food you're eating or what????
 
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#2 ·
Does she block your manhood by removing your scr0t0ms and play baseball with them using your peni$ as a bat??? Just asking…Lol.
Sounds kinda kinky...

I hear the same thing from my husband. He claims I don't "allow" him to be a man.
That sounds like an excuse - plain and simple.

I've always made a firm distinction in my own life between "excuses" and "reasons."

As he's using YOU as an excuse, he likely won't "Man-up" unless he wants to.

Its truly not all of us. I had my own issues - but never once blamed my wife for who I was or who I am.
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
Where the **** do I sign up for this life? I work 12 hours a day, come home make dinner atleast half the time, help around the house, help the kids with homework and would give my right arm to make sure the family has what it needs. Hell, wouldn't miss the already non existant sex life. I will gladly take your husband's place, hell I may even do the dishes every once in a while.

Seriously though. If your hubby is that lazy and worthless, toss his ass out. You don't get married to have an extra kid to raise.

If you wish to use the logic that your hubby and some of what you see on here are an accurate depicition of the entire male species. I could using the same logic say what is wrong with women, they are loveless lazy asses that sould come with an instruction manual and a box of eggshells that you can practice walking on in preperation for your life of misery. But I guess I can see past the end of my nose enough to know that would be wrong.
 
#5 ·
Where the **** do I sign up for this life? I work 12 hours a day, come home make dinner atleast half the time, help around the house, help the kids with homework and would give my right arm to make sure the family has what it needs. Hell, wouldn't miss the already non existant sex life. I will gladly take your husband's place, hell I may even do the dishes every once in a while.
Seriously though. If your hubby is that lazy and worthless, toss his ass out. You don't get married to have an extra kid to raise.
:iagree:

The real question really isn't when did men stop being men, but why do you tolerate this in your marriage?
 
#6 ·
My husband has certainly stepped up to the plate and has put more then his fair share of effort into our marriage right from the start. I more then appreciate everything he does for me. Now that I'm disabled after my spine injury, he has picked up my slack on my bad days where I can not get out of bed. Even before my injury, he's worked 2 part time jobs along with his full time job. One of his part time jobs is teaching online college course, the other is a small business of ours. When he asked me to quit my job to stay home with the kids, we discussed that I may never return to work. Now I really can't return to work and never will be able to bring money into our household. I'm a very lucky woman to have him as my husband. Everything about him is wonderful. :)
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#10 ·
Seriously, what's going on guys???? Is it the food you're eating or what????
I read an article that kind of makes sense and also explains more cancers.

The pill is designed so the estrogen does not disolve in the water of the body, so it stays in the system for the month. It then gets urinated into the water system and remains and recycles back into our water system.

Men and women are getting more and more estrogen as the generations pass.

Blame the pill.
 
#13 ·
There are plenty of men that are still men. Your husband just isn't one of them. In your case his lack of a job sounds like the problem. It's hard to feel like a man without a job. And while your attitude that he needs to get off his ass is right in a lot of ways, if he really has been trying to find a way to provide more financially then beating him down isn't going to help him act like a man. The economy sucks and you can't necessarily make more money just by "trying harder." If he really is just lazy, don't assume all men are.
 
#14 ·
Men and women can be absolutely horrible judges of each other's character. So very sorry for you.

There are plenty of men out there who have spent the last two months protecting excess income with Section 179 deductions, tax deferred contributions, etc.
 
#17 ·
Why are you saying that all men are like your husband? Would you accept negative general statements about all women?

What have you done to discuss these issues with him? What boundaries have you set about what you will accept in your marriage? Generalized complaints will never get you a loving, supportive relationship.
 
#18 ·
Seriously, what's going on guys???? Is it the food you're eating or what????
Not all men are like your husband and mine. I know some who work hard and support their family… even when their wives work they are full partners in the marriage financially and other wise.

But I have been reading a lot of posts here about guys who do not do much to bring in an income or to help around the house… and on top of that they are basically **** heads to their wives.

Your husband sounds a lot like my husband.

When I married my husband in 2000 he had a 6 figure job. He traveled a lot. He and his two children moved in. While employed the only thing he did was work. He did not help with the house or even with his own children.

During our entire marriage I have worked full time.. often long hours, raised his two children and my son with little to no help from my husband; taken care of the house; cooked; taken care of our bills, taxes, and all legal issues.

Then he was laid off from his job in 2002 in a global layoff … the company was having financial problem because of 9/11. Since then he’s worked a few short contracts all in all equaling maybe 12 months of work. That’s it.

He has spent most of his time all these years sitting at his computer all day and all night playing computer games.

He also feeds/waters the dogs and lets them in/out during the day. He cleans up the back yard of dog poop about once a month.

He chose to end our sex life about 4 years ago. Says that he has ED but refuses to see a doctor about it. I really do not think he’s ED. It’s an excuse.

He has written a few novels. He is an increasable writer. He will not even try to get his books published.

He is a web developer with very excellent skills that he has kept up. I have invested a lot of money and time into getting a web development business going with him. But he cannot finish a project. I’ve had to give deposits back to customers because he will not finish the work. So having his own business it out of the question as well.

Up until recently he has refused to lift a finger around the house, with the kids, with handling bills, etc.

About 4 months ago I took him to a psychiatrist and we had a discussion. Told him that I was tired of it all, that I think he is a cruel person for treating me this way. That either he is mentally ill or just mean and is taking advantage of me. And either he works with the pshyciatrist to get is ass in gear or he can move out. .

Well not he cooks dinner about 4 nights a week and keeps the kitchen sort-a clean. Let’s dishes pile up but .

During the entire time of our marriage in 2000 i have worked full time - often working very long hours, raising his two children and my son, doing all the house work, paying all the bills, etc. .

It's only been in the last two months that he's started to do anything around the house. Now he is cooking dinner about half the time. And he washes the dishes most days and sort of keeps the kitchen clean. That is about the extent of his updated effort around the house. .

I’m so fed up with this.
 
#22 ·
Loveherman, let's get it straight. I never said that all men were like my husband. I was very specific not to suggest that ALL men are any way. Additionally, if you read through my entire thread you would've realized that I based my opinion not only on what I go through with my husband, but also due to the threads I've consistently read.

And since you're obviously the guru of loving, supportive relationships then why are you on TAM? You should be able to talk to your husband and not a bunch of strangers on a website.

So slow down.
 
#23 · (Edited)
While I think you're projecting your issues with your husband on all of us men I do think there's some truth to what you're saying. Have you seen Adam's Corolla's book "In Fifty Years We'll All Be Chicks". The pendulum has swun too far after the women rights movement and now as women are becoming dominant in the work place men are having a hard time figuring out where they belong. I also think our politically correct letigious society has made it practically illegal to be a real man in corporate America. You can't even look at a women without getting into trouble these days. There is also way too much entitlement in our society and everyone thinks they deserve stuff instead of having to earn it. Our government has perpetuated much of this by reinforcing the Political Correctness in the courts and the schools are basically teaching us to be sheep. American men have been taught it's not acceptable to overtly display manly traits and they that they should be ashamed to be a heterosexual man in the first place. These messages are usually subtle but they are always there in the media. Yes, some men's behahvior can be brutal and offensive, but I think we've thrown the baby out with the bath water. My generation has been taught to be sensitive to everyone's needs and that competition was unfair. Now, everyone has to win a trophy regardless of how well you perform and there are no consequences for losing. It doesn't create men with character. Honestly I think its very ironic that you see alot of women complain about there being no real men around these days.:scratchhead:
 
#25 · (Edited)
EleGirl it must be REALLY tough for you to marry a man with a 6 figure paying position and then he ends up with nothing. My situation was similar. He wasn't making nearly 6 figures, but he was making a decent salary which could've supported his children and I. However, he ended up losing that job and we've been paying for it ever since.

He works and the job pays him ok. He does give some money, but it's not enough to even discuss it. He has become completely content with me doing it all and I don't understand it. The most ironic thing is that when we were first dating, he told me that his son's mother was a total leech. She'd watch him work so hard and wouldn't do anything to make things easier for them. She didn't cook or clean and she ran their bills through the roof. Now that I'm making the money, he's doing the EXACT same thing to me. You'd think that he'd recall how he felt when he was in my shoes, but I suppose not.

I'm gonna repeat this once again for every one else. I'M NOT SAYING THAT ALL MEN ARE WORTHLESS!!! I'm saying that based on my situation and MANY of the threads that I've encountered on TAM it seems as if many men aren't stepping up to the plate in their marriage. They're content with watching their wives do it all, even if she's struggling to do it.

For the women out there who have great husbands whom contribute in every way in the marriage, kudos to you and realize how blessed you are because TRUST AND BELIEVE things CAN be different.
 
#29 ·
EleGirl it must be REALLY tough for you to marry a man with a 6 figure paying position and then he ends up with nothing.
I has been tough, we planned our financial life with both of us working. Then this happened. We decided to keep our house because the kids were in high school and surely he would start job hunting or make a business work.. surely. Then after the kids graduated from high school I decided to sell the house.. and the market crashed. We had to walk away from the house. I could not keep up with the payment… after years of trying to do it all financially myself. I’m pissed about that.
The most ironic thing is that when we were first dating, he told me that his son's mother was a total leech. She'd watch him work so hard and wouldn't do anything to make things easier for them. She didn't cook or clean and she ran their bills through the roof. Now that I'm making the money, he's doing the EXACT same thing to me. You'd think that he'd recall how he felt when he was in my shoes, but I suppose not.
Same with my husband. Sounds about like the same thing with his ex- a SAHM who he supported.
 
#27 ·
Try stepping back and being a "man" for a day.

Men are portrayed as idiots, buffoons, incompetent, stupid cattle on Television. Try watching King of Queens or a similar show. Television commercials project men as little more than animals that need a woman to guide them.

Channels like Disney and others portray fathers as a useless appendage around the house. Children are taught that they are smarter than the adults in their lives and the "man" in the house isn't a figure of respect, rather a butt of the jokes.

"Successful" men are the sensitive, in touch with their feminine side weaklings. We are told that what we want is inappropriate and sexist. We are told that to be a good man, you must completely subjugate yourself to the whims of the women in your life. You can't dress yourself without a woman or a gay person.

Masculinity is portrayed as a weakness. A basic inability to control your sexual nature. Sex is chore to the woman, who uses it to control the mindless ape in her marriage.

Men are taught from an early age that among their numbers is a very high percentage of predators. Rapists, child molesters, wife beaters. It is because "men" in general are barely able to control their primate urges. remember that Super bowl Sunday was supposed to be the day that more women were raped and beaten than any other day?

If we complain about it, anger is the response. We need to "suck it up", "Man it up", or just "deal with it"

If we work long hours to support, we are neglecting the family.

If we spend time with the family, we could be out being more successful.

If we want sex, we are Neanderthals, if not, we are unloving.

If we hang with the guys and have a few beers, we are insensitive. If we stay at home and pay full attention to our (wives) we are spineless wimps.

Remember, a woman needs a man, like a fish needs a bicycle.
 
#28 ·
Try stepping back and being a "man" for a day..
Oh my.. and woman are protrayed so well.. you know they are brain dead gold diggers. They are bimbos. Oh and don't forget.. blonds are just dumb bimbos... What's dumber than a bimbo? A blond... shall I go on? Men do not have a minopoly on being badly represented in movies, TV and other media. We are not talking about stupid stereo types here.

Are you saying that all that you listed is an excuse for men like my husband who refuse to earn a living, who refuse to help around the house and who play computer games all day? Oh, poor guy I guess I should not complain.. is this what you are suggesting?

Haven't you notices here on these forums a lot of women with husbands who are not contributing financially and in other ways to the household? Their wives are here, a good number of them.

The OP brought up a very valid issue... perhaps discussing the issue instead of being defensive would actually help the OP and people like me who are struggling with this problem.

Remember, a woman needs a man, like a fish needs a bicycle.
Oh... get real. :lol:
 
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#36 ·
The reality is neither man nor woman has it easy by default but our attitude about things absolutely changes how easy or hard things are. I'm trying to change mine because we only get this one life and it is really pretty freaking fabulous being alive and having so many opportunities simply by being born.

I do think men and women want one another. I don't think they need one another. I also don't think it's easy for them to understand one another.

It's in our best interest to work together to gain a better understanding rather than playing sex wars all the time. That gets no one anywhere, ever.

Let it go, work on yourself and please don't think all men are a certain way just because a man you know is or most men you know are. The same goes for women. We're all capable of great understanding and great strides.
Isn't it possible that we see the same scenarios as our own often because we're looking for them? Haven't you ever purchased a certain car and then seen that car a lot more often after you purchased it? In other words, it's what we're paying attention to that we'll see.
You are right that it's best to not paint with too wide a brush stroke.

However, I do not read the OP as making a statement about all men. Her post is about her noticing all those relationships being posted here that have a common thread to hers. She is seeking insight and help. And she's really not getting any.
 
#41 ·
Because we are trying to force men to behave like women. Fight Club was 100% correct, a generation of men raised by women. Coming from being an officer in the Army and working with nothing but men, I now work in a hospital which is 85% women, and it is very difficult for me to function socially.

An easy example is being direct. Men are typically very direct in communication with one another, but women seem to take this personally. At work I will see a guy asked his professional opinion on something, he'll say "that's a bad idea" for xyz reason and go on about his day. His male peers will say "oh, ok" His female peers will start telling leadership that he is hard to work with and isn't a good fit.
 
#53 ·
@AFEH. What the he!! are you talking about? I'm not attractive to "real men?" Are you a real man or even a real woman because any real person wouldn't have even made such an immature comment. I'm married to a real man who isn't taking care of real responsibilities. Keep it movin'.
 
#47 ·
Feminism in no way had anything to do with men not being real men.
All the real men I have known, had no issue with feminism.

I believe that men and women are quite lost, and it has nothing to do with women having opportunities, being able to earn money and being paid a fair days pay for a fair days work. What reasonable person wouldn't want those things?

Part of the problem the feminine is not valued, traditional women's roles are not valued. So women and men are only valuing the masculine and it's put men and women in competition with each other. So rather then work together complimenting each other, they are competing, and some men become lazy, and many others give up.

As soon as men value women for what they can bring to the table and value them as equally as they value the masculine, then it will be seen as something to strive for.

Personally I love masculine, take charge, men of their word, won't take crap, caring, loving, hard working men. But being a real man means being fair and balanced. Not taking advantage of and squashing people in a less fortunate position or keeping them down because you afraid of them. Men who don't support women having access to opportunity and equity are afraid and that's not manly or sexy.
 
#49 · (Edited)
Well...I am not suggesting that feminism is bad, or that the goal of feminism was to prevent men from being men. But there has to be a reason why this happened, right? Pretty much from the beginning of time up to the 1960s in America, it was a man's world. What event or movement came to prominence over the last 60 years that changed this? How might it have affected social life and family structure?

Hmm.
 
#51 · (Edited)
Well...I am not suggesting that feminism is bad, or that the goal of feminism was to prevent men from being men. But there has to be a reason why this happened, right? Pretty much from the beginning of time up to the 1960s in America, it was a man's world. What event or movement happened over the last 60 years that changed this? How might it have affected social life and family structure?

Hmm.
I believe that women finally got fed up with being taken for granted, being undervalued and treated as unequal in value.

The role women played in life, in the home, for the most part, had been devalued when compared to the man's role. In many ways, it still is today.

When some men exhibit "feminine" traits, they are called weak, yet it is admirable if a woman exhibits traditional "masculine" traits.

I'd like to think of the attributes of both genders as "human" traits. Showing emotion, is a human trait, not a "feminine" trait. Being a "go getter" is also a human trait, not "masculine". That's not to say that genders are the same, but that we all have the ability to just be human, with all the emotions and thoughts that make us human.

That being said, for thousands of years, women, by what society has dictated, has be relegated to the role of the homemaker. And by doing so, it has caused her to be dependent on, first her father, then her husband.

Men, on the other hand, if they didn't want to, they didn't have to consider their wives emotional needs. Why should they? The women really had no choice but to stay in an awful marriage. Women had no choice, due to financial reason, to leave. This treatment towards wives has been passed down through the ages. Now though, times have changed, women will not and do not have to accept being ignored and our needs and roles being downplayed.



I'm not saying all men are like this, I'm just giving my take on why the 60s revolution happened.
 
#54 ·
I gave the thread it's title because I intended to capture the attention of all men in order to retrieve feedback on their thoughts regarding the topic. If you read the thread with an open mind and not immediately jump to defense, you would've clearly seen that it's intended to focus on only a subset of men. Of course all men aren't lazy and unwilling to provide for their families. C'mon guys. However, if you read the different threads in other forums, you'd understand why I've come to my conclusion about SOME SOME SOME men. I'm not getting the responses that I was hoping to obtain with the exception of a few. I wanted everyone, both men and women, to provide their opinions about the TOPIC with an open mind. This thread was never intended to offend men or accuse them ALL of not being providers. However, get defensive if you please, but it's still a FACT that there are many men out there who have simply settled and have become completely content with not leading, supporting, or even loving the family as he was intended to do.

I'll say this again, for the women out there whose husbands don't fit into this subset of men, then GREAT for you. Recognize your blessing and start praising your husbands for being such a great provider. Love him unconditionally and show him how much you appreciate him because TRUST AND BELIEVE it can be different.
 
#55 ·
I gave the thread it's title because I intended to capture the attention of all men in order to retrieve feedback on their thoughts regarding the topic. If you read the thread with an open mind and not immediately jump to defense, you would've clearly seen that it's intended to focus on only a subset of men.
Pretty sure the posts about feminism, if read with an open mind and not read defensively, were meant to show that not all feminism was bad... just a subset of it.
 
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