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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Women and the need for security

How important is 'security' (material as well as emotional) to your marriage? Does what your partner do (or not do) affect your feeling of security? Is his ability to 'protect and provide' important to you?

Has the need for security become more or less important at different times of your life? For example, was security not as important early in your relationship but more important once you got going on having children?

I have had a front row seat to more 'failed' marriages (some of which ended in divorce, some didn't) in the past several years than I ever would have wanted to have. Many/most happened within a few years of having kids. All but one divorce was initiated by the woman.

In all of them, I noticed a pretty solid trend. Almost every woman complained that she was 'sick and tired of her husband', that he was 'worthless', 'a child', 'incompetent', 'not doing enough', 'weak', 'a disappointment', 'a loser', 'an underachiever', 'needing to man up', 'didn't care about his family', etc. Three divorces were the direct result of the man becoming unemployed (and remaining unemployed for too long) during the recession.

While I can't say that those complaints (and resulting actions) were entirely the result of a lack of the wife feeling secure (and content in that security), it certainly does look that way from the outside.

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 05:52 PM
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Re: Women and the need for security

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Originally Posted by Dazedconfuzed View Post
How important is 'security' (material as well as emotional) to your marriage? Does what your partner do (or not do) affect your feeling of security? Is his ability to 'protect and provide' important to you?

I have a high need for Financial Support because it was important to me (and my husband) to be able to stay home with our children rather than have them in daycare/afterschool care. My husband also has a high need for Domestic Support, so we were a good match in that way.

Has the need for security become more or less important at different times of your life? For example, was security not as important early in your relationship but more important once you got going on having children?

It has been important to me throughout our entire marriage.

I have had a front row seat to more 'failed' marriages (some of which ended in divorce, some didn't) in the past several years than I ever would have wanted to have. Many/most happened within a few years of having kids. All but one divorce was initiated by the woman.

I've read that the majority of D's are initiated by women, and that neglect is often a big reason why women leave husbands they love.

In all of them, I noticed a pretty solid trend. Almost every woman complained that she was 'sick and tired of her husband', that he was 'worthless', 'a child', 'incompetent', 'not doing enough', 'weak', 'a disappointment', 'a loser', 'an underachiever', 'needing to man up', 'didn't care about his family', etc. Three divorces were the direct result of the man becoming unemployed (and remaining unemployed for too long) during the recession.

I saw marriages disintegrate during the recession too, but none of the women I knew made comments like above. I see that as contempt. Financial stress is very hard on marriages. It is very hard to meet each other's needs when basic family needs are not being met. I saw several men sink into severe depression when short selling their homes and turning in the nice cars. One even left his family to fend for themselves, believing they'd be better off without him. Financial stress is one of the hardest things a family can go through, IMO. Couples can either turn toward each other in this time, or turn away. And some turned away by playing the blame game- "you spend too much, you didn't save enough, you over-extended, you pressured us into a home we couldn't afford", etc.

While I can't say that those complaints (and resulting actions) were entirely the result of a lack of the wife feeling secure (and content in that security), it certainly does look that way from the outside.

I think we all want our needs met in marriage and when a spouse can't do that, for whatever reason, it can cause problems in the marriage. Spouses who have a high need for Financial Support will have a hard time if that need isn't able to be met, and a spouse who lists Sex or Physcial Attractiveness will have a hard time if their spouse is unable to meet that need, like during illness or medication side-effects, or menopause, for example. Anytime a top need is not being met, the marriage is at risk.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Women and the need for security

And if there is one thing kids are great at introducing to a marriage, it's financial stress, lol. Especially if one or both parents believe that staying at home with their babies is important. And even if they don't, paying for childcare is incredibly expensive (if good childcare can be found at all - we had to get a nanny so I could go back to work).
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:09 PM
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Re: Women and the need for security

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Originally Posted by Dazedconfuzed View Post
And if there is one thing kids are great at introducing to a marriage, it's financial stress, lol. Especially if one or both parents believe that staying at home with their babies is important. And even if they don't, paying for childcare is incredibly expensive (if good childcare can be found at all - we had to get a nanny so I could go back to work).
I know. In many cases, the second income will be insignificant after childcare, convenience foods, household help, and added stress on the breadwinner. It was in our case, mainly because my industry is not a big money-maker. But I love it, so I do make some time for it. My commitment to the family/household comes first though.

I know your part-time work is more lucrative, so I think that's different.
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Women and the need for security

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I know your part-time work is more lucrative, so I think that's different.
In my case, my son's nanny and I split my earnings. We made the same amount of money on the days that I worked, lol.

Once he started preschool, I would say that even more of my earnings went to pay for his school. I'm not sure, but I feel like preschool tuition is comparable to college tuition, lol. He's in kindergarten now, which is cheaper, and we finally landed him in a good public school (after trying - and stressing - for two years), so next year he goes to school for free. Whew!
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:34 PM
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Re: Women and the need for security

All of my sense of security comes from within. I do not need anyone else to provide it, or even help me with it -- although it is nice to know that he has my back.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 08:56 PM
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Re: Women and the need for security

My wife is strong and I have no doubt she could handle her own security. However, she seeks security from me. It is a need she has from a man and I am happy to provide it for her.

The times I was not able to provide that security, her trust level in me was rightfully low.

If she had to provide her own security, whether it is financial, physical or otherwise, what would I be worth for her?

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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 10:38 PM
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Re: Women and the need for security

My husband was fired a few years ago. First time it had happened. He called me and I hadn't heard his voice sound that way before. He said he had some news. I froze, thinking someone had died. And was relieved that wasn't the case. We went to the pub that night and made a toast to 'Strikes and Gutters' ...life happens.

He dusted himself off quickly and got to doing whatever was needed to make things happen. He's been on receiving end of unfortunate timing a couple times since, with companies dropping projects and such because of budget.

Each time he's continued to stay on path and look forward. I've acknowledged to him that he experienced upheaval and kept dusting himself off. His approach and attitude is consistently of action. The mortgage still needs to be paid, responsibilities met, the only way to get there is through actions. That's how he views things. Even if I've suggested that I can carry us short term, he's not accepting of that.

That's who he is. We all react to things differently. I respect his resilience.

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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 10:58 PM
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Re: Women and the need for security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazedconfuzed View Post
How important is 'security' (material as well as emotional) to your marriage? Does what your partner do (or not do) affect your feeling of security? Is his ability to 'protect and provide' important to you?

Has the need for security become more or less important at different times of your life? For example, was security not as important early in your relationship but more important once you got going on having children?

I have had a front row seat to more 'failed' marriages (some of which ended in divorce, some didn't) in the past several years than I ever would have wanted to have. Many/most happened within a few years of having kids. All but one divorce was initiated by the woman.

In all of them, I noticed a pretty solid trend. Almost every woman complained that she was 'sick and tired of her husband', that he was 'worthless', 'a child', 'incompetent', 'not doing enough', 'weak', 'a disappointment', 'a loser', 'an underachiever', 'needing to man up', 'didn't care about his family', etc. Three divorces were the direct result of the man becoming unemployed (and remaining unemployed for too long) during the recession.

While I can't say that those complaints (and resulting actions) were entirely the result of a lack of the wife feeling secure (and content in that security), it certainly does look that way from the outside.

Material security is mostly an illusion. At best, material security only allows us to retain things that most of the world deems luxuries - like a roof over your head, a vehicle, food that can be purchased instead of raised, etc.

In the Western world, society (OK, mostly our governments) tell us that a house is required. OK, let's buy into this story. Not too far-fetched, I'd say. But - compared to the 1950s,. houses are 3X the size they used to be (on average) and have HALF the number of people in them. There is no aspect of the biology of a human that requires 6X the interior square footage of teh 1950s.

So, if you're feeling insecure about the roof over your head - trade it for a smaller roof. I've done that with houses AND cars, and the feeling of paying off the debts is amazing.

As far as emotional security - that's the whole point of a romantic relationship, IMO. I am a whole person, she does not fill a void in me - however, she DOES fill the role of someone to listen when I have an emotional struggle..she listens, she says "that must feel awful" but she does not fix. Just as I do with her. At least, that's how it's supposed to work. according to the gurus.

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 11:00 PM
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Re: Women and the need for security

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Originally Posted by heartsbeating View Post
My husband was fired a few years ago. First time it had happened. He called me and I hadn't heard his voice sound that way before. He said he had some news. I froze, thinking someone had died. And was relieved that wasn't the case. We went to the pub that night and made a toast to 'Strikes and Gutters' ...life happens.

He dusted himself off quickly and got to doing whatever was needed to make things happen. He's been on receiving end of unfortunate timing a couple times since, with companies dropping projects and such because of budget.

Each time he's continued to stay on path and look forward. I've acknowledged to him that he experienced upheaval and kept dusting himself off. His approach and attitude is consistently of action. The mortgage still needs to be paid, responsibilities met, the only way to get there is through actions. That's how he views things. Even if I've suggested that I can carry us short term, he's not accepting of that.

That's who he is. We all react to things differently. I respect his resilience.
Your husband is a realist. Statistically, the average American gets laid off 4 times in their career and spends 48 months jobless. May as well accept the reality and be OK with it. Most of us, when laid off the first time, realize how evil debt is and dump it ASAP, then the next layoff is manageble simply by being prepared.


There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie

Last edited by DustyDog; 04-20-2017 at 09:35 AM.
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 11:16 PM
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Re: Women and the need for security

My wife relies on me for emotional security. She owned a house before I did, though I make more money. She lived alone longer then I did. I feel very little pressure to make her feel financially secure because I know she knows she is capable. Both of us have been outsourced at different times and we both carried the other one. We are a team.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:17 AM
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Re: Women and the need for security

Emotional, financial, spiritual security are all important. That does not mean that I shouldn't be doing things for myself, working for example, ensuring i take care of my own emotional and spiritual needs. There is a huge difference between a man down on his luck due to a layoff for example, but who gets up and does something about it and a man who is too lazy to fully participate in the life of his family or get a job, etc.

The former I would support and do all in my power to help through the tough times, the latter I would kick to the kerb. I am thankful my H would fall in the former group. He has met many setbacks in his work life but has shown sheer grit, determination and persistence. I really admire that about him. His work ethic is something I want him to pass to our kids.
The only problem I have is how he chooses to spend money, material things are important to him. I know the adage, 'work hard, play hard', he feels he should enjoy the fruits of his labour. Fair enough.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:46 AM
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Re: Women and the need for security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazedconfuzed View Post
How important is 'security' (material as well as emotional) to your marriage? Does what your partner do (or not do) affect your feeling of security? Is his ability to 'protect and provide' important to you?
Security… financial & emotional.
Financial security is important, especially when you have children. I would not want to live on the street and definitely would not want my children living on the street. But I have never expected financial security from a man. Good thing I did not, but it was not there anyway.

Emotional security- there are a lot of aspects to this. I wanted emotional security in my marriage. I wanted to know what I was loved, that he would be there emotionally, spend time with me, have a sex life, and so forth. That was apparently too much to ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazedconfuzed View Post
Has the need for security become more or less important at different times of your life? For example, was security not as important early in your relationship but more important once you got going on having children?
It’s been pretty steady. Since I was not a SAHM, I did not experience a lot of what many other women do in needing a husband to provide financial security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazedconfuzed View Post
I have had a front row seat to more 'failed' marriages (some of which ended in divorce, some didn't) in the past several years than I ever would have wanted to have. Many/most happened within a few years of having kids. All but one divorce was initiated by the woman.
When you say initiated, do you mean that the woman was the one who filed for divorce? Or do you mean that the husband was happy with the marriage, the woman was not and she asked for dovorce against his wishes? Are you saying that the men were faultless in the failure of the marriage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazedconfuzed View Post
In all of them, I noticed a pretty solid trend. Almost every woman complained that she was 'sick and tired of her husband', that he was 'worthless', 'a child', 'incompetent', 'not doing enough', 'weak', 'a disappointment', 'a loser', 'an underachiever', 'needing to man up', 'didn't care about his family', etc. Three divorces were the direct result of the man becoming unemployed (and remaining unemployed for too long) during the recession.
Since I don’t know these women and their situation, I don’t know how many of the women were accurately describing their husbands. And what did their husbands say about them? I’ll bet that some of those women were right in the way they described their husbands. And some of them were just badmouthing them because they had to justify ending the marriage.
Quote:
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While I can't say that those complaints (and resulting actions) were entirely the result of a lack of the wife feeling secure (and content in that security), it certainly does look that way from the outside.
Interesting that you ascribe the lack of security as perhaps the cause of the end of the marriage.
My first marriage ended because my husband was abusive, refused to meet any of my emotional needs.. I later found out that he was cheating the entire marriage with various women.

My second marriage ended because from the day of our marriage, my husband stopped doing anything in the way of meeting emotional needs, refused to participate in any house work, yard work, care of his own children from his previous relationship (he had 10% custody). In the second year of our marriage he was laid off. So he spent the next 10 years playing video games and surfing the web.

I’m not sure is the lack of security of any kind could be the issue in both marriages… well except maybe the lack of emotional security… there was none in either marriage. But the complete disregard for meeting any needs at all was definitely the cause of me filing for divorce in both marriages.
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:15 AM
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Re: Women and the need for security

Security is probably the most important thing to me in marriage. The trust I have in my husband is directly related to how loving and giving I feel towards him.

If he would ever not like how things were going in the marriage, he would just need to look at himself and how he has treated me to correct it.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 05:34 AM
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Re: Women and the need for security

This blogger shares his views on women's need for emotional security in marriage:

I think the #1 cause of divorce is relationship-damaging behavior by men who honestly don’t recognize it. Good men with good intentions who damage their wives’ emotional and mental health with behaviors they don’t understand to be as damaging as they are.

. . .

Men—boyfriends and husbands—often are so determined to defend their actions and feelings that they don’t actively listen to their upset girlfriends or wives. They HEAR them, saying words and being angry and stuff. But they don’t LISTEN. They don’t understand. They never figure out WHY their partner is saying and feeling these things.

. . .

After dozens, perhaps hundreds of attempts to explain what it is that upsets her, he generally responds angrily. Or tells her she’s wrong. Or tells her she’s just being emotional again. Or tells her she’s mentally unstable. Or simply walks away in frustration because he doesn’t want to fight anymore. Or maybe he’s really patient, and simply walks away confused after the conversation without fighting back, but also without ever understanding what she’s trying to communicate to him.

No matter which of those common responses occur with any given couple, each instance further weakens a wife or girlfriend’s faith in the relationship.


. . .

A wife or girlfriend loses trust in her husband or boyfriend after repeated attempts to explain why something hurts and requests for help in making it stop haven’t resulted in any positive outcomes nor any evidence that he wants the painful thing to stop.

Faced with feeling hurt every day for the rest of her marriage/relationship, and no evidence her committed partner is willing to be a partner in making something painful go away, she stops trusting him.


https://mustbethistalltoride.com/

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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