During a random diner conversation with my wife we were talking about how men and women dressed and acted on dates. She made a comment to the effect that "traditionally" women used sex to attract men to get married while men tried to get sex without getting married.
She worded it in a way to suggest that *she* didn't necessarily feel that way but seemed surprised when I commented that I didn't think that view was very common in the modern world.
Do a significant number of women still view sex as something that they "exchange" for marriage, something women do *for* men as opposed to something that is mutually enjoyed?
I thought that idea had mostly vanished half a century ago, but maybe not.
I always wanted to marry.. since my teens.. but I also NEVER felt sex / intimacy/ pleasure was just for the man !! This way of looking at it...I've heard women talk like this.. saying how sex does nothing for her, about keeping him happy.... but I've never felt this way...I've always wanted my O ! I can even be demanding here... if he slips.. I tell him he has to do it again !
The 1st time my husband touched me, we were very young....I remember thinking.. "Oh my God... don't stop please don't stop !!!".. I wanted it too.. I wanted to get lost in that pleasure-
as much as he did... BUT ...I still deeply cared about getting married.. .. having a family one day, when the time was right ....we even waited to go all the way.. wasn't easy, especially at 1st... but we got used to what we did... At the same time.. I placed a high value on MARRIAGE....(so did he.. a very Traditional guy) ... I knew boys before him.. they would have been happy to bang me & leave me.. I wanted to avoid that sort of start in life.
A woman can want both... it doesn't always have to be portrayed as an "exchange" for the man- this makes it look as though the woman is just using him (to be a Provider, a father) ...and he is then using her (so he can have sex) .. which is a shame and a terrible way to view marriage, what it's intended to be ...
I am surly older fashioned and have remained so over the years.. but I also love, have always loved the idea of romantic erotic intimacy - marriages filled with passion for each other..
It's difficult to read stories here where one is not passionate about pleasuring / pleasing the other.. this is so vital to our happiness (I know it is mine, I have a need to give it too).. .. if my husband never wanted to marry me.. this would have been an issue.. we would not have been compatible in our values...that was how I envisioned my future. I needed to be with another with the same vision.. .
Before Simply Amorous globbers me, yes both she and her H were virgins and yes it was difficult, so difficult in fact they both fooled around with each other a lot, but they also got married young! I don't think either one of them would have lasted into their mid twenties.
It's that you reduce marriage to nothing more than a "cultural restraint"... it's how to speak about the religious/ those of faith, I often feel you belittle such people with your words, your views...then you said how everyone you associate with would LAUGH about getting married.. in your words - as they are "done with making decisions and arranging their days to suit the needs of others."...
you reduce marriage to a Joke , basically meaningless and even a burden.... I find this very distasteful ....it does rub me the wrong way.. I would not feel comfortable in your circle of friends. that much is a given..
And that's the part you and all the other "wait till marriage" types don't seem to be able to wrap your brains around. Both you and your husband seem to be equally repressed and restrictive when it comes to sexuality and that might be why you two mesh so well. Meanwhile SA and her husband are equally sensual and considerate and that's why they mesh pretty well. But how frequently would you estimate that a married couple have sex drives that mesh well when they've never had sex until they've been married? I'd say less than 1/10. And that means that those religious believers who have ended up in a marriage in which the sex drives don't mesh, those poor people are truly stuck in an unhappy marriage where they have to trick themselves into believing they're happy by downplaying the importance of sex and disregarding their own sexuality.
I have my own feelings on this...beings fewer & fewer care about marriage today, mocking the notion of it.....It's a good feeling when I hear of those who speak highly of it.. where it still means something to them... hopefully they are going into it with enough self awareness, a mutual giving spirit of teamwork, having learned, experienced enough together -that it has a good chance of lasting...
As for the sexual aspect of it.. having a # of sons.. I don't want them to find themselves miserable after the vows, of course it is a concern.... I think mechanics.. if she O's .. if they have similar desires, needs is one aspect of sexuality (too much of a mismatch would cause misery)... but even if you have HOT desirous sex before marriage. even this can all go to hell IF other things come into play, like resentment, too much fighting -over other things you can't see eye to eye ...
I think the big thing for me is.. if a man is patient enough to wait for a woman..they should do some exploring together... feel mutual pleasure before they marry.. that they KNOW they can satisfy each other.. this is something we had... long before we married.. . I guess it's no different than the couple who had sex , or lots of it with many partners saying they'd never do less than that.. as that was their experience...(and felt it was enough)
I DO feel some hands on is pretty important.. I just don't see anything wrong with some boundaries along the way either approaching the wedding, if that's what a couple agrees on ...(not like many would even want to do this!)... just don't be too stringent.. I've read a story or 2 I could share that damaged the bonding and caused awful repression after the vows.. trying to be "all hands off"...to the point the young bride needed therapy after the wedding... very sad story.. should have never been..