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Sex attitudes / goals - interesting comment from wife

13K views 104 replies 28 participants last post by  SimplyAmorous 
#1 ·
During a random diner conversation with my wife we were talking about how men and women dressed and acted on dates. She made a comment to the effect that "traditionally" women used sex to attract men to get married while men tried to get sex without getting married.

She worded it in a way to suggest that *she* didn't necessarily feel that way but seemed surprised when I commented that I didn't think that view was very common in the modern world.

Do a significant number of women still view sex as something that they "exchange" for marriage, something women do *for* men as opposed to something that is mutually enjoyed?

I thought that idea had mostly vanished half a century ago, but maybe not.
 
#2 ·
In the 1960s, my mom (and, according to my pals, their moms) said: "A man wants sex and will give a woman love in order to get sex. A woman wants love, and will give a man sex in order to get it." The notion of sex before marriage was not gender-specific - it was believed that both genders wanted to "act as adults before they are ready". Just my experience, of course.

On the other hand, there is a personality trait called people-pleaser. It's actually the most difficult one to be married to, because a people-pleaser struggles to tell bad news...and you end up feeling you've been lied to your entire marriage. I've now known two women who, in our early dating days, eagerly encouraged physical intimacy - from my viewpoint, they led. I am aware that sex can be a touchy issue for many women, so I don't push it, when first dating, I'm careful, bring up the topic slowly, see how receptive she is, etc...so, if I think a woman has been aggressive about it, she probably was...it definitely happened sooner than I expected and I didn't go through my usual careful build-up over a period of many dates.

Anyway, both of these women who seemed eager and led the activities later said they never actually liked it, but they wanted a relationship and knew that all men liked sex (which is actually not true) so they offered it up early to "get it out of the way".

On the other hand, all women I dated, being nominally my age, grew up with the same moms as I did.
 
#3 ·
No. And I'm old!!

A few of the girls I grew up around were marriage-focused, but not that many, and most of the women in my circle now don't view marriage as any particular prize or end game. Certainly they're not using sex to trap men into it. I know a few couples, for example, that have never bothered to tie the knot at all, even though they've been together for ages. And a few women who much prefer to live alone and have lovers on the side than to give up their independence.
 
#4 ·
All women are different. When I dated it was only in order to meet a man who wanted to get married (if things worked out). However I wasn't prepared to have sex to get that man because I wanted a man who was prepared to wait. I do know a lot of women who want to get married and have a family, and are not looking for casual sex, but a committed relationship/marriage.Having said that, a lot of men I know want/wanted that as well.
 
#31 ·
I was after the same thing you were but not a whole not of women were. It made the pool of women available very small. Thing are even worse these days. The very things that marriage stood for aren't that applicable any more.
 
#5 ·
IDK, the women my age who are single are looking for sex and casual fun while the men our age are looking for a stronger commitment. As if they'd been married and liked having a wife and miss having a wife while the women do not miss having a husband.

In our younger days, sex wasn't used transactionally. It was almost always an integral part of relationships and sex had almost nothing to do with seeking a spouse. I think my husband and I are the only one we know who didn't live together prior to marriage.
 
#6 ·
If I had to guess, I'd say this attitude is not as common as it used to be, but can still be found in some cultural groups/regions to a higher degree than others. I *suspect* that a lot of this stems from how some young ladies are raised by the preceding generation, and the misinformation that keeps being perpetuated about what all men want, etc.

It's very sad. With a stable full of girls in my house creeping toward that age (I say creeping but it seems like the speed of light), I've had a few sit-downs with my wife about what we need to be teaching them about relationships. I've also had to "correct" a few things I've heard her tell our daughters.
 
#9 ·
I have heard this notion before but yes it has little to do with the modern world. Young women may be able to hold this value of waiting for sex till married, for a very show true time, but with online dating if a guy just wants sex he can just move on to find it. And that sex can be completely relationship free if they so choose. I don't know if this is better or worse, probably an argument each way.
 
#13 ·
All types of relationships are series of transactions at the end of the day.
It just depends on what you value as currency and what you feel is acceptable to "pay out."

Not trying to sound uncaring and cold about it all, but it's my truth. My accepted currency is primary emotional investment and physical intimacy. For Odo, I suspect it is the same, although his need for physical intimacy is a bit higher than my own because it is his primary love language. It's a top one of mine as well but quality time is a bit higher for me. We love each other deeply, but we're both pretty logical and realistic when it comes to having both of our needs met. We kind of do it naturally, without having to actively think about it.

Oh, and @Fozzy, those guys are really hunky..... :lol:
 
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#14 ·
I think that they are "transnational" to some people but not others - and the difference causes a lot of misunderstanding.

For some, a relationship no more transnational than the interaction of your own hands - you don't think of the left hand doing things for the right hand in return for later assistance by the right hand. A close relationship is seen by some as a binding together of needs and desires for common happiness.
 
#23 ·
That's why it's extremely important for those who are waiting until marriage to have sex to actually have lengthy discussions ABOUT sex! The relationships that don't work out are usually the ones where the couple never talked (or very little) about sex beforehand. It can be embarrassing to talk about for virgins especially, but it's vitally important to talk about it at length before getting married. Otherwise, you're just rolling the dice..., so to speak. Compatibility is important in ALL aspects of a relationship, and you must be mature enough to communicate without embarrassment about anything, including sex. It's better to feel a little embarrassment now than to wait until it's too late.

I have two daughters (19 and 16) who are still virgins. I'm pretty sure my wife has had talks with them, but I can only speak from a man's point of view. I've shared some thoughts on occasion as to what I was thinking at their age. When they do get to the point of possible marrying, I will certainly have a sit down talk with them about sex from a man's point of view so that they will know what to expect. I don't want them to go into any commitment without knowing its importance, and how it affects their future married life.
 
#24 ·
That's why it's extremely important for those who are waiting until marriage to have sex to actually have lengthy discussions ABOUT sex! The relationships that don't work out are usually the ones where the couple never talked (or very little) about sex beforehand. It can be embarrassing to talk about for virgins especially, but it's vitally important to talk about it at length before getting married. Otherwise, you're just rolling the dice..., so to speak. Compatibility is important in ALL aspects of a relationship, and you must be mature enough to communicate without embarrassment about anything, including sex. It's better to feel a little embarrassment now than to wait until it's too late.

This is a very good point. My question is, how do virgin know what to even ask or worry about or wonder about? The state of sex Ed today certainly won't prepare them to think about, talk about and ask very intimate questions.

  1. How often do you masturbate?
  2. What are your thoughts on masturbation?
  3. Do you get a sexual charge from touching other parts of your body?
  4. How comfortable are you showing me exactly how you like to be touched?
  5. What do you understand about how I feel about sex with a spouse?
  6. Do you think sex is a way to share love?
  7. Do you feel loved when your spouse stands before you completely nude, completely vulnerable?
  8. Do you think husband's and wives should do this often?
  9. How often do you think a married couple should have sex?
  10. How do you think the problem could be solved if one person wants sex and the other person doesn't?
  11. Do you feel like having sex is giving up something, or taking something?

Why doesn't the church prepare young people to ask these questions and answer these questions?



I have two daughters (19 and 16) who are still virgins. I'm pretty sure my wife has had talks with them, but I can only speak from a man's point of view. I've shared some thoughts on occasion as to what I was thinking at their age. When they do get to the point of possible marrying, I will certainly have a sit down talk with them about sex from a man's point of view so that they will know what to expect. I don't want them to go into any commitment without knowing its importance, and how it affects their future married life.
Thats excellent! But what is your wife telling them? What messages are they getting? Are they learning that to feel aroused is normal healthy and good? To want to be touched, the same? Are they learning to distract themselves and keep boundaries in place without subverting their sexuality?
 
#28 ·
During a random diner conversation with my wife we were talking about how men and women dressed and acted on dates. She made a comment to the effect that "traditionally" women used sex to attract men to get married while men tried to get sex without getting married.

She worded it in a way to suggest that *she* didn't necessarily feel that way but seemed surprised when I commented that I didn't think that view was very common in the modern world.

Do a significant number of women still view sex as something that they "exchange" for marriage, something women do *for* men as opposed to something that is mutually enjoyed?

I thought that idea had mostly vanished half a century ago, but maybe not.
I always wanted to marry.. since my teens.. but I also NEVER felt sex / intimacy/ pleasure was just for the man !! This way of looking at it...I've heard women talk like this.. saying how sex does nothing for her, about keeping him happy.... but I've never felt this way...I've always wanted my O ! I can even be demanding here... if he slips.. I tell him he has to do it again !

The 1st time my husband touched me, we were very young....I remember thinking.. "Oh my God... don't stop please don't stop !!!".. I wanted it too.. I wanted to get lost in that pleasure- as much as he did... BUT ...I still deeply cared about getting married.. .. having a family one day, when the time was right ....we even waited to go all the way.. wasn't easy, especially at 1st... but we got used to what we did... At the same time.. I placed a high value on MARRIAGE....(so did he.. a very Traditional guy) ... I knew boys before him.. they would have been happy to bang me & leave me.. I wanted to avoid that sort of start in life.

A woman can want both... it doesn't always have to be portrayed as an "exchange" for the man- this makes it look as though the woman is just using him (to be a Provider, a father) ...and he is then using her (so he can have sex) .. which is a shame and a terrible way to view marriage, what it's intended to be ...

I am surly older fashioned and have remained so over the years.. but I also love, have always loved the idea of romantic erotic intimacy - marriages filled with passion for each other..

It's difficult to read stories here where one is not passionate about pleasuring / pleasing the other.. this is so vital to our happiness (I know it is mine, I have a need to give it too).. .. if my husband never wanted to marry me.. this would have been an issue.. we would not have been compatible in our values...that was how I envisioned my future. I needed to be with another with the same vision.. .

Before Simply Amorous globbers me, yes both she and her H were virgins and yes it was difficult, so difficult in fact they both fooled around with each other a lot, but they also got married young! I don't think either one of them would have lasted into their mid twenties.
It's that you reduce marriage to nothing more than a "cultural restraint"... it's how to speak about the religious/ those of faith, I often feel you belittle such people with your words, your views...then you said how everyone you associate with would LAUGH about getting married.. in your words - as they are "done with making decisions and arranging their days to suit the needs of others."...
you reduce marriage to a Joke , basically meaningless and even a burden.... I find this very distasteful ....it does rub me the wrong way.. I would not feel comfortable in your circle of friends. that much is a given..

And that's the part you and all the other "wait till marriage" types don't seem to be able to wrap your brains around. Both you and your husband seem to be equally repressed and restrictive when it comes to sexuality and that might be why you two mesh so well. Meanwhile SA and her husband are equally sensual and considerate and that's why they mesh pretty well. But how frequently would you estimate that a married couple have sex drives that mesh well when they've never had sex until they've been married? I'd say less than 1/10. And that means that those religious believers who have ended up in a marriage in which the sex drives don't mesh, those poor people are truly stuck in an unhappy marriage where they have to trick themselves into believing they're happy by downplaying the importance of sex and disregarding their own sexuality.
I have my own feelings on this...beings fewer & fewer care about marriage today, mocking the notion of it.....It's a good feeling when I hear of those who speak highly of it.. where it still means something to them... hopefully they are going into it with enough self awareness, a mutual giving spirit of teamwork, having learned, experienced enough together -that it has a good chance of lasting...

As for the sexual aspect of it.. having a # of sons.. I don't want them to find themselves miserable after the vows, of course it is a concern.... I think mechanics.. if she O's .. if they have similar desires, needs is one aspect of sexuality (too much of a mismatch would cause misery)... but even if you have HOT desirous sex before marriage. even this can all go to hell IF other things come into play, like resentment, too much fighting -over other things you can't see eye to eye ...

I think the big thing for me is.. if a man is patient enough to wait for a woman..they should do some exploring together... feel mutual pleasure before they marry.. that they KNOW they can satisfy each other.. this is something we had... long before we married.. . I guess it's no different than the couple who had sex , or lots of it with many partners saying they'd never do less than that.. as that was their experience...(and felt it was enough)

I DO feel some hands on is pretty important.. I just don't see anything wrong with some boundaries along the way either approaching the wedding, if that's what a couple agrees on ...(not like many would even want to do this!)... just don't be too stringent.. I've read a story or 2 I could share that damaged the bonding and caused awful repression after the vows.. trying to be "all hands off"...to the point the young bride needed therapy after the wedding... very sad story.. should have never been..
 
#32 ·
The 1st time my husband touched me, we were very young....I remember thinking.. "Oh my God... don't stop please don't stop !!!".. I wanted it too.. I wanted to get lost in that pleasure- as much as he did... BUT ...I still deeply cared about getting married.. .. having a family one day, when the time was right ....we even waited to go all the way.. wasn't easy, especially at 1st... but we got used to what we did... At the same time.. I placed a high value on MARRIAGE....(so did he.. a very Traditional guy) ... I knew boys before him.. they would have been happy to bang me & leave me.. I wanted to avoid that sort of start in life.

This is why I think you're just adorable!

A woman can want both... it doesn't always have to be portrayed as an "exchange" for the man- this makes it look as though the woman is just using him (to be a Provider, a father) ...and he is then using her (so he can have sex) .. which is a shame and a terrible way to view marriage, what it's intended to be ...

I am surly older fashioned and have remained so over the years.. but I also love, have always loved the idea of romantic erotic intimacy - marriages filled with passion for each other..

It's difficult to read stories here where one is not passionate about pleasuring / pleasing the other.. this is so vital to our happiness (I know it is mine, I have a need to give it too).. .. if my husband never wanted to marry me.. this would have been an issue.. we would not have been compatible in our values...that was how I envisioned my future. I needed to be with another with the same vision.. .
The bolded part is what I've been saying everytime you and I discuss this. It doesn't matter what religion or virgin status, some people had the ill lick to marry another person who is not passionate about making the other happy. You did. You found a guy who was as eager to please you as you were to please him. I know you hate it when I say you were lucky, maybe you are a good picker.



It's that you reduce marriage to nothing more than a "cultural restraint"... it's how to speak about the religious/ those of faith, I often feel you belittle such people with your words, your views...then you said how everyone you associate with would LAUGH about getting married.. in your words - as they are "done with making decisions and arranging their days to suit the needs of others."...
you reduce marriage to a Joke , basically meaningless and even a burden.... I find this very distasteful ....it does rub me the wrong way.. I would not feel comfortable in your circle of friends. that much is a given..
No you certainly wouldn't. You'd have nothing in common because you married a guy as passionate about you as you are about him, and you've maintained that. Walk a mile in another woman's shoes who has spent 30 years doing for others and a husband who thinks he should get an award because he brings her coffee. The other night he said he got me a surprise for dessert. I said yeah chocolate? He said no pie. Well I don't like pie and he knows this. He didn't get chocolate because it would have meant another stop. This is a nothing little incident but 30 years of this makes a woman say enough! Faith, compromise, working together, been there and done that and none of it worked. I've been here at TAM since 2013 and nothing has worked. Faith, religion, compromise....you all drop that off like it's the answer and it's not. So when someone shouts out their faith as if that gives them some sort of place of honor picture me holding up my middle finger.



I have my own feelings on this...beings fewer & fewer care about marriage today, mocking the notion of it.....It's a good feeling when I hear of those who speak highly of it.. where it still means something to them... hopefully they are going into it with enough self awareness, a mutual giving spirit of teamwork, having learned, experienced enough together -that it has a good chance of lasting...

As for the sexual aspect of it.. having a # of sons.. I don't want them to find themselves miserable after the vows, of course it is a concern.... I think mechanics.. if she O's .. if they have similar desires, needs is one aspect of sexuality (too much of a mismatch would cause misery)... but even if you have HOT desirous sex before marriage. even this can all go to hell IF other things come into play, like resentment, too much fighting -over other things you can't see eye to eye ...

I think the big thing for me is.. if a man is patient enough to wait for a woman..they should do some exploring together... feel mutual pleasure before they marry.. that they KNOW they can satisfy each other.. this is something we had... long before we married.. . I guess it's no different than the couple who had sex , or lots of it with many partners saying they'd never do less than that.. as that was their experience...(and felt it was enough)

I DO feel some hands on is pretty important.. I just don't see anything wrong with some boundaries along the way either approaching the wedding, if that's what a couple agrees on ...(not like many would even want to do this!)... just don't be too stringent.. I've read a story or 2 I could share that damaged the bonding and caused awful repression after the vows.. trying to be "all hands off"...to the point the young bride needed therapy after the wedding... very sad story.. should have never been..

All parents want their children to form a good and lasting marriage, eventually. By teaching our kids to play nice, to share, and to talk it out we teach them to have a relationship. But we fail miserably in preparing our kids for the make or break part of marriage, sex. We can have a great marriage but if the sex is lousy the marriage is not so great. We can have a decent marriage but if the sex is outstanding the marriage is great. Sex is the make or break in a marriage so we all have to prepare our kids to make that part of their marriage healthy, passionate and fun.
 
#30 ·
Some how we managed to get a pretty good understanding of our (then) compatible sex drives. Without living together or really having a regular sex life. We kept it to hands before.
Whenever I bring this up people say, but you are in a mismatched sex drive relationship, so it didn't work. Well for 10 years we were pretty well matched. Then a lot of things changed. We stopped having kids, our kids got older we had employment changes. our sleeping schedules changed and wouldn't you know it, our sex schedules changed too. and we didn't line up so well. Then there was the 3rd decade, and health issues. let me tell you arthritis really puts a damper on things. also the circulatory (ED) problems that come with diabetes. Then weight and low testosterone. THINGS CHANGE. We had no idea 30 years ago that this would happen.
So how did we manage to survive it? Well things come together better when you can talk about it. The darkest days were when she refused to discuss sex at all. If we could talk we could find a way to make it work.
 
#35 ·
The marriage of today is more LOVE based... unlike the GOOD-OLD days of property/benefits. ie: women did not have jobs, far less working skills were more dependent on men for a home and child rearing. Hence, women are TURNED on by a man with lots of money, even if he's a creep.

In general, I think most people shouldn't get married... so many get married for weak reasons. "Its a thing to do".
 
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#36 ·
I don't think it's generational so much as it is people's view about sex and marriage differ.
I am of the group that is traditional, believes dating is for the sole purpose to get married. You don't date for fun, you date with a purpose. I believe in waiting till marriage to have sex. Or at least until things are very serious. I believe men don't want to marry the girl they had sex with on the first date. Men like a challenge, men like to feel lucky to have their wife, like a prize they won. I believe my sexuality and sex is for the one man that "won" me so to speak. I'm sure this is going to piss a lot of people off sorry. Sex should be enjoyed, but not given out easily to people.
 
#38 ·
How very objectifying this sounds. Do men give out sex or is it only women? How many bullseyes does a man have to make before he wins you? What about you? Are you, and by extension all women, supposed to sit and hope a man notices? Do women not have to convince her man she is worth his commitment?

I think perhaps age group is more indicative of a desire to marry.

This is the message my mother attempted to raise me with. It didn't work because men got a pass. Double standards have always pissed me off. Men, in her opinion could do whatever they wanted and it was up to women to stay pure. Men could choose to get laid as often as they had a semi-willing partner, whether he was married or not, it was up to the wife to keep him happy enough to stay home. Men made the rules and women enforced them. Men made the money and women spent it. Okay maybe that one did work out for me. >:) Its highly limiting and highly dependent on men in general and I think if a society is going to construct marriage in the way that you and others here see it then frankly we would need a LOT more education and training for men because I sure as hell won't be taking part in marriage roulette, and I wouldn't allow my daughter's to go that route either.
 
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#42 ·
I am GenX and I knew guys that were desperate for a serious relationship/marriage and some women in the same boat. Birth control has been around a long time and I don't think a desperate woman or man would use sex to get marriage.

They may lie or manipulate a relationship to get a ring, but just sex seems so 1920's.
 
#44 ·
I'll answer from my own situation(s).

I was raised a Christian. My parents didn't engage in premarital sex, and neither did I with my first marriage. My goal in dating was to ultimately get married, have a family etc. I dated other young Christian men, who held the same morals as I.

My parents were happily married for over 40 years until my fathers death. I on the other hand ended up very unhappy in my marriage and did divorce after 20 years. I had also failed in my faith and was struggling greatly at that time. With my second husband, we did have sex before marriage. I absolutely wanted to get remarried, but I didn't use sex to get that result.
 
#45 ·
I forgot to add, that as women gained more rights, the ability to work good paying jobs that meant less dependent on MEN, the divorce rate skyrocketed.... why?

Because many women married men as a support system... living years hating or not liking the guy with little or no way out. Or because they were concerned with being labeled a ***** or other nonsense. These things still happen obviously. But not as much.
 
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#46 ·
Many people have married the same person they had a sex on the first date.

Each their own.. but as long as its not some law that says otherwise (so far, anyway) - people are not forced to be married before sex. Considering how said it is that people think that sex is taboo and have trouble talking about, it's so 1917. So that is a usual problem - in which the married couple do NOT talk about sex, so many of them are in bad sexual marriages. What if he's got 11"? What if one of them has some kinky ideas and the other is totally against them? Now you are married and have sexual incompatibilities which may not be resolvable. For many such marriages - sex is a job, part of the job more than an expression of love IMHO.
 
#54 · (Edited)
I know this will sound immodest but when I was a young man, women wanted to have sex with me. I was considered a hottie and girls talked about my skills in bed. I was advanced for my age. Atr 14 I had a 17 year old girlfriend and by 21, had 30+ sex partners. What I noticed was that some women would have sex with me just to have me keep dating them. I could see it in their eyes and by how they reacted. I am the type of lover who enjoys giving pleasure more than receiving it. Whenever I saw that look, I backed off.

I read the first comment with interest. I married a people pleaser and she has done every fetish in the book to please me. Even set me up with her best girlfriend who was in our lives and bed for most of our 44 years of marriage. That is how much she wants to please me. I had given up on changing her. Long story due to abusive alcoholic father. Now that we are once again monogamous, we are into chastity play. I am locked in a chastity cage and allowed to orgasm every 4 months while my wife has unlimited orgasms anytime she wants without having to reciprocate. She has finally discovered that withholding orgasms from men keeps them in courtship mode all the time. I am more calm and eager to please her. We still have sex on a regular basis but all that is missing are the ten seconds of my orgasm. All else is the same. My wife finally learned that she does not have to please me all the time and can be selfish in bed. She is having the best orgasms of her life and enjoying all the attention I am giving her. I figured that I owe her big time so sex is for only her pleasure now.

I do not think anything has changed in modern times. Women still use the promise or withholding of sex to get what they want. Men still want sex without having to marry. Open your eyes and see all the couples, many with kids, who are not married. My niece just had a baby and she is not married. No one thought anything of it. Nothing has changed since the dawn of mankind. Women use sex and men try to get it at the lest cost. Just watch TV. Sex without marriage is all over the airwaves. Unless you live in a bubble, men and woman still behave the same.
 
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#57 · (Edited)
This has been a rather fascinating thread, especially the varying attitudes toward premarital sex. I have witnessed, and actually been in, both camps on this one. Let me start by saying that my wife is the only one I’ve had sex with.

There were times, especially in the 5-10 year part of my marriage (we’ll be hitting 30 years this June), when I wish I had gotten around before I met my wife. I had this thought for two reasons. First, as we all know, an inexperienced man is fast… so it would have been nice to have developed some control/stamina so I could have been a more effective lover right from the get-go. Second, my wife and I, like many couples are somewhat mismatched in our desires (frequency, variety). So I reasoned that, had I had some broad experience, I would have been able to detect that mismatch before we exchanged vows, and figure that into my decision to commit my entire life to this one person. (not that I would have made a different decision, only that I would have appreciated more complete information before making it)

But the pendulum swung back on that and has stayed firmly in the “I’m glad I did it how I did it” camp for many years now. Looking at it logically, that breadth of experience I thought would be helpful is no guarantee of anything. How many men had great sex lives, but then were faced with the “bait and switch” when, after the name change was legal, the wife stopped being that wild, exciting sex kitten? To be fair, we must also acknowledge that some accusations of “bait and switch” are a bit harsh and unfair as the wife never intended to deceive—feelings and desires can just naturally change over time with nobody at “fault.” And despite my feeling slighted in the frequency/variety, she has been completely solid in all other ways (including when I’ve been a jack@$$ in other ways) and the marriage has always been high –fidelity strong.

(also to be fair, as an aside, I’ll mention that I never see men get accused of a “bait and switch.” While I’ve seen both genders accuse each other of double standards, this one seems to get overlooked. For every woman who is a sex goddess before the wedding and a cold fish after, I suspect there is a man who was a romantic wonder before and who just expects his wife to “put out” after. That one works both ways.)

But the real bottom line in my final position on this matter, at least for me (I’m loathe to make prescription for others on this matter), is that there is one and only one person on this planet who has had, or who will ever have, that piece of me. And don’t for a second think that waiting until I was 21 wasn’t d@mn difficult or that I didn’t have many opportunities I chose to turn down. In the final analysis, I am pleased to have kept that aspect of me completely for one other-it is important to me to have done so, regardless of any external pressures or influences. It is also worth noting that I am not religious and this position is not driven by any theology or doctrine. It is mine and mine alone. No dogma influenced me to abstain any more than seduction or peer pressure influenced me to go for it.

That said, I reiterate that it was important to me to do this, but I hold no such expectations for others. My wife had previous experience and I don’t fault her or feel slighted one bit. She used to regret her previous relationship (guy was a turd—and he’s quite lucky I never met him) and it left her with some baggage. I did my best to assure her it had no bearing whatsoever on how I saw her. Eventually, she realized that that part of her past helped make her the strong, wise woman she became. I like to think I'm wise enough to know that if her past is what made her the woman I fell in love with, how foolish it would be for me to find fault in that.
 
#59 ·
But the real bottom line in my final position on this matter, at least for me (I’m loathe to make prescription for others on this matter), is that there is one and only one person on this planet who has had, or who will ever have, that piece of me. And don’t for a second think that waiting until I was 21 wasn’t d@mn difficult or that I didn’t have many opportunities I chose to turn down. In the final analysis, I am pleased to have kept that aspect of me completely for one other-it is important to me to have done so, regardless of any external pressures or influences. It is also worth noting that I am not religious and this position is not driven by any theology or doctrine. It is mine and mine alone. No dogma influenced me to abstain any more than seduction or peer pressure influenced me to go for it.
see I think THIS is damn special and your wife is very blessed.. that's just how I feel.. but that makes all the sense in the world coming from me.. others will just tell you .. "you missed out Sucker, should have chased that tail when you had a chance!"
 
#64 ·
@Anon Pink Hey there. You and I have had many discussions about sex (mostly offline) you know my history I know yours, you know how I feel I know how you feel. And in the midst of it all you have truly been supportive toward me even when others questioned my dynamic with my husband.

But I don't think you are being fair to Christians, as many are not here. Why do Christians need to go to a "Christian forum" but swingers don't, cuckholds don't, gay people don't, confirmed bachelors/bachelorette don't? They are all points of view and ways of living one's life. Why the finger to us Christians who express our views just like people who believe it's ok to bring 3rd parties in to marriages and freely approach TAM with their point of view.

Another thing that is overlooked about sex before marriage is for vast majority here on TAM who are in a sexless or close to it, they had sex before marriage and it didn't prevent them from having sexual problems after marriage.

Parents do need to do a better job preparing children if they are going to teach abstinence but it can be done. I didn't listen to my Mom once my now husband came along because the pressure from him combined with hormones was just too great. Im not even sure I was completely sold anyway but I knew i wanted sex to be with someone I loved that loved me. But I do plan to teach my kids abstinence and hopefully my experience will be helpful with that. I plan to be totally open and honest to prepare them as I possibly can.

I don't know @Diana7 or her story at all Pink so maybe I'm out of line here but aren't you making judgments and assumptions about her marriage that you couldn't possibly know for sure? Again please forgive me if I'm wrong and she has shared all this and that's how you know.

Oh and could you and SA please stop fussing? By now you both know you will NEVER agree! LOL. Just joking. Carry on.
 
#66 · (Edited)
A lovely post, and you are so right that many here who have had several partners and sex before marriage with their present partners are now stuck with none or little sex. So this theory that if you have had sex with many people and had sex early on in your current relationship means you will have a good sex life now is clearly wrong. Also that if a couple wait for marriage that must mean they aren't interested in sex and that will cause trouble, is clearly completely wrong also.
The ones I know who waited, including us, were definitely very interested in sex, but had to use self control to wait for marriage, because that's what we believe is right. I appreciate that this is something that so few understand, and because of that they try and imply that it must be because we have sexual issues or don't want sex that we wait. How wrong that is.
Its also a very wrong assumption that if you havent had several/many sexual partners before marriage then your sex life must be somehow lacking. Again that is so wrong. Its better, far far better in my opinion and experience.

Sex is something that for us has improved and developed over the years as we have learnt about each others likes and dislikes. Its gets better as time passes, and we are as keen today on having sex with each other as we were coming up for 12 years ago when we married. Its far better than it was with my first husband, who I did had sex with before marriage,(wasn't following God then) and he had had sex with 6 previous women. It certainly didn't help our sex life or make him a better lover in anyway.
I love that I don't need to even think of all the women my husband has had sex with, what they may have done or didn't do, or wonder if he is comparing me to them etc. There was his first wife and me.
 
#75 ·
I think she was talking about the U.K.

Did not realize divorce rates were so high for Mormons in America. They seem to be all about "family values." Same for evangelicals.
 
#77 ·
I remember reading a comment once on Amazon about atheist/Christian marriages.

A woman had said that although her atheist husband was wonderful to her and they had a very good marriage, she was worried about his not sharing her Christian beliefs.

A man tried to comfort her, and advised her to be grateful. His words still ring in my ears: "He believes in something better than God. He believes in you!"
 
#78 ·
I wonder what the rates are for fallen away Catholics? 😄
 
#82 ·
It really amazes me that you prefer to rely on hearsay rather than actual data.

All of the top 2 countries by divorce rate are Christian.

Countries Compared by People > Divorce rate. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

Every data point confirms: that conservative Christians are more likely to divorce than liberal Christians. It's the same for both US and UK.

The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt: "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people. Nine states in the Northeast (Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Maryland) have the lowest divorce rates, averaging just 3.5/1000 people.
 
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