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Nudity.

13K views 69 replies 35 participants last post by  k-ci 
#1 ·
The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip.

One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy.
At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.

The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.

True or false?
 
#41 ·
She agrees that there are innumerable suggestive images in the media and says she/I just can't do anything about most of them.

In a movie theater or at her house, however, I do have such control.

FWIW, I said - later, when we were in better moods - that I would close my eyes in such scenes when she closed hers in movies in which there are unrealistic depictions of men (rich, romantic, smooth-talking, emotionally sensitive, family-oriented, etc.). That went over with a eye roll, which was actually better than expected.
 
#43 ·
I say 'false', but I think you are asking 2 questions here? 1) if most women feel that way and 2) if this is reasonable.

I dont know. Seems a bit extreme to have to promise to close your eyes.

I could entertain, if we were of similar mind, agreeing to restrict the kinds of movies we see, or books we read I suppose - especially if it was founded on common religious or other moral choices we might choose to adopt and felt important enough to formalize into a code of behavior.

Though we have never talked about it - I can probably easily think of dozens of deviant behaviors.. illegal, reprihensible, amoral, that would be totally unacceptible to even begin to entertain through media. Though in my mind, is far different from a little booby in a video - it seriously is only a matter of degree so I can understand it. I suppose there is also perfectly rational thought process that sort of says you are what you eat, what you see, what you read, etc... and by consuming that sort of thing you are polluting yourself.

Not the boobies, exactly - but maybe strip club boobies because its really a trashy kind of thing to some people to flaunt sex in front of strangers for cash etc and there is no real need to drink in that sort of thing visually.

In short - I think it too simplistic to simply brush it off as 'insecure' or wierd. Yeah - I/we have no problem with it - but the more I think about it - the more I think that is says more about me than I would like - really my indifference to the realities of what is socially acceptible in media or in general.

(I went to a few strip clubs when I was younger. Initially found them highly entertaining - eventually, I found them depressing, cheesy, and even disturbing when you get right down to it. Now, I dont think I would go even if 5 guys said: 'lets go!'.. I dont need it or want it.)

If she is otherwise comfortable in her own skin and with her sexuality, and yours... in private - then its worth listening to her position. Sounds like you talked already - and thats 95% of the battle. The remaining 5% (coming to agreement) is of course, the tricky part. Still seems strange to me, but thoughtful self censorship, or rather the refinement of what one chooses to consume is not a totally broken idea if that is indeed what she is considering and not simply screaming "Boobies!!" and fleeing the room. I suppose only you can decide if her position has merit.

babling...
 
#45 ·
AnotherGuy makes some good points. I wanted to add that context is indeed a factor (at least for me). Seeing someone deliberately depicted in a sexual, perhaps degrading manner is far different then say, a woman breast-feeding (it came up in a movie my husband and I watched and we both felt the scene was beautiful, not often shown and a unique experience to watch).

In the back of my mind I'm still thinking "he's looking at another woman's breasts." But tasteful nudity, such as in art, doesn't bother me as much.

It IS unavoidable for both you and her to experience in a day to day life. It's better if you both pick your own battles, you know?

I'm glad I don't feel the way I used to - that's no place for your mind to be, and it speaks of an inner desire within to "possess" the other. I can see now how I used to be controlling, and I completely felt in the right at the time. It's a difficult thing to balance at times, and since I was also raised religiously I can definitely attest to it's influence on the shame one might feel in these circumstances.

Hoping you guys are able to work something out, and for her - I wish her the peace of mind and acceptance she needs. :)
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#46 ·
Yin ~ it was interesting to read your posts.

Nudity for me, became awkward to a point when I realized I wasn't feeling secure within myself. I didn't put demands on my husband but I know that I used to cringe inside feeling insecure about my body compared to the images I was seeing. At some point I was able to recognize this. As for whether he was thinking of those images in his head later, this is something I also realized I had no control over and it was a self-inflicting hurt that I was causing myself by even thinking this way.

I remember when he went to a high-end strip club years ago for work, as one of those "schmoozing with the client" nights. He told me about it and what went on. I trusted his boundaries but I felt torn up inside thinking of him looking at other women, and ignoring the debate about whether they're taken advantage of etc, I also know part of the reason I felt this way was because I knew my body wasn't in the kind of shape they would be in. I flitted between being glad I had an honest man, to feeling annoyed that he'd experienced this. I was moody about it. That's who I was back then. None of the other guys told their wives they went. For me, this would be worse than dealing with it within myself. But he also thought that I might enjoy going with him. He described it to me, and while slightly tempted, there was just something that didn't sit right and part of that was my own insecurity, so I didn't.

Fast forward to burlesque. I decided this was more a celebration of the female form and more entertaining than a strip club to me. I was slightly hesitant but it was fantastic. Hubs was cheering the women on, right along with me. The women were all shapes and sizes, from large women with rolls of fat, to petite toned women. And they all looked very sexy. They had cellulite, different shaped bodies, they were not airbrushed or chosen for their 'perfection'. But they were seductive and beautiful and their acts were amusing. I think especially as a woman, this was refreshing to see. It really felt like a celebration of our beautiful figures, in all their amazing variety.
 
#47 ·
I don't like seeing women's bodies being objectified, but nudity in and of itself does not bother me at all, nor does it bother me that most men like to look at it. I can appreciate human beauty and get turned on by attractive people, but that does not mean I have no control over it OR that my satisfaction in my partner will somehow be lessened.

I felt differently when I was younger and insecure, so maybe she will out grow it. But I also think she is wrong to assume that she is, personally, able to speak for all--or even most--women.

I would encourage her to work on her self esteem before this becomes a bigger issue. She can ask you to close your eyes if she does not mind coming across as an immature control-freak, but she should not expect you to indulge her boundary-crossing behavior!
 
#49 ·
She does not read romance novels, thankfully.

(Aside: I do wonder about how we've fallen into the negative self-esteem and body image pit we're in as a society today. Overall, we're much much chubbier than we were, say, 50 years ago.
If this negative body image comes from comparing ourselves to the "perfect" or "unattainable" figures in the media and seeing the gap there....will we as a society have more and more self esteem issues as the obesity epidemic worsens?)

Strip clubs ARE pretty depressing. I got dragged to one quite a few times by a friend who was big into that scene. Even went on a date with a pretty normal girl who worked there and asked me out. But the overall mood of those places is just so...sad. I don't know how the men there are able to call up the requisite suspension of disbelief for any extended period of time.
 
#53 ·
SoWhat,
Be careful with how "enmeshed" you get with her. Not only is her request extreme - she is making a choice not to recognize it as such.

Logic 101: The audience composition at most R rated movies is couples. The women attending these movies realize that many/most of them will have some female (and often male) nudity. Since they KNOW from prior experience their partners aren't going to shut their eyes - you can easily conclude that they (the female partners) don't have an issue with nudity or they WOULD NOT ATTEND. And they would likely discourage their male partners from attending.

As for her first marriage I am curious about something. Does she recognize that her "dislike" of sex for all but the last year was hurtful/unfair to her husband? Does she recognize that it was cruel to entice him to vow to "forsake all others" and then deny him sex?

In a more general sense - how capable is she of "putting herself in someone elses shoes"?

I give people a lot of latitude "in the moment" if they are upset. Once they calm down I expect a much greater ability to see both sides of the picture.
 
#57 ·
Mem, thanks for the post.

I think she recognizes on an objective level that 'disliking' sex with her ex was cruel. But she focuses more on his infidelity than on that.

She's not very good at putting herself in other peoples' shoes. She sometimes has a hard time understanding that other people have different preferences, dislikes, drives, and opinions.

I'm a philosopher by training (though have fallen into another profession due to inclement job market conditions) and try hard not to come across as someone trying to set out syllogisms or arguments. I'm not sure if she would bother listening to me if I set out your (very sound) reasoning for why her position is extreme.

Her sister is apparently similar with regards to nudity (according to the GF and her BIL). She's apparently a super-HD person - BIL describes himself as honestly "exhausted" sometimes - but is very strange about nudity.
 
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#56 ·
Dean
I have a lot of respect for you. And also your marriage. Your wife sounds great.

I did not mean to seem in any way critical of your W in my comments. My intention was to make the point that she wouldn't ask you to shut your eyes - and you likely wouldn't be agreeable to that.

As for your W insisting that she is your one and only - nothing wrong with that. She really loves you - and expects a high degree of loyalty/commitment.

I apologize if my post was ambiguous.
 
#58 ·
I'm not setting out to make my GF seem crazy or mean or anything.
She's generally wonderful to me and is incredibly intelligent.

I think she may have BPD (which would explain her ocasional outbursts) and her views on sexuality actually seem to be close to the mainstream in her religious denomination, after further investigation.
 
#59 ·
SoWhat,
Before you marry just keep something important in mind. With someone like that - you run the very real risk of ending up in a situation where you deadlock over priorities.

The classic is "sex isn't important to me - therefore it isn't important". All you need to accept with those folks is that "talking" is counterproductive. As her first H discovered - years of talking accomplished nothing. Her finding out he was cheating AND would not be pressured into ending the affair(s) was what triggered her desire for him.

I am not saying your GF is bad. I am saying that with people like that - they behave much, much more fairly if they understand there will be a swift and severe consequence for crazy behavior.

I am married to someone who has a touch of this. Easily dealt with - if I remain firm, calm and when needed completely ruthless. Not my preference to have to do that - but if I didn't do it when needed - we would be in a bad place.




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#60 ·
I know some girls like that. For this, I think it honestly has to do with how she was brought up. For me, I'm completely okay with nudity. I was raised in a home where being nude was considered natural, and comical at times.
I go to the gym frequently and I always shower, then change in the locker rooms. It's not like any of the women/girls in there have never seen breasts or other lady parts (or I hope so!), but sometimes I get some awkward stares from people.

I think she just has to get used to more nudity. Be patient with her and understand that some people are just uncomfortable with nudity. (Also, some women who have been through trauma can develop anxiety about nudity.)
 
#62 ·
It's really easy to be a saint in the first year of a relationship. The biggest warning sign of anything you've posted is her last marriage.

What makes you think your marriage will be any different? Do you know the guy personally other than what she has told you?
 
#66 ·
It depends on what has happened in the past. With my ex bfs I never cared. With my husband, however, I ask the same - that he turn away. The reason I ask this is because we had problems with him having fantasies about other women and touching himself to that instead of being intimate with me. Any little thing like boobs, underwear...wtv...would turn him on and he wouldn't wait for me to alleviate that.

However, if a guy can watch that stuff without feeling the need to think about that women or at least go to his girl when his engine is started then it shouldn't be a problem at all.
 
#67 ·
That sounds so overwhelmingly controlling to me.

Every situation is different, I know, so I'm not saying you're out of line or anything. This is clearly a delicate matter and there probably aren't any one-size-fits-all answers;
when is it okay to 'alleviate' yourself and when do you have to "wait" for your SO?
where is the dividing line between curbing 'mental infidelity' and being the thought police of your SO?
etc.


I can't imagine having zero sexual attraction to anyone but my SO. I see plenty of sexy women every day, and am turned on, to a very real extent, by these fully-clothed women in everyday situations. I don't *act* on these impulses though. I guess that's what I think of fidelity as.
 
#68 ·
I can't imagine having zero sexual attraction to anyone but my SO. I see plenty of sexy women every day, and am turned on, to a very real extent, by these fully-clothed women in everyday situations. I don't *act* on these impulses though. I guess that's what I think of fidelity as.
Well, different people will have different opinions on what "acting" on the impulse means. For some, allowing the thoughts of another to swirl around in your head and to bring them to the forefront, such as to fantasize about another, etc. is also akin to infidelity. I guess it is what you would call 'lusting' and that is considered a sin by many. :)

Most women do want their husbands to desire them above all others, and to show them that they do.

But, your SO seems to have a bit of baggage surrounding this issue - for sure from her previous marriage, and possibly from her upbringing. Is she actively doing anything to try and work through this baggage? Otherwise, she'll just keep carrying it along and adding to it in your relationship.

Best wishes.
 
#70 ·
All I know is that for women who are insecure, like me (at times) feel uncomfortable seeing other more beautiful naked bodies. I know i get very envious sometimes, it builds a rage in me... I wish I could control it sometimes. I mean I have never banned or told my husband not to look but I have explained to him my insecurities towards it and why I do feel this way.
I beleive she is making that excuse to justify or rationalize to you her way of thinking.
If she were plain honest she would probably have to admit to you or herself that maybe she does need help in her head and actually go see someone and actually need to do something about it.
 
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