Let me make sure I understand you. A woman cannot go out with her friends because of a perceived thing that she is going to do. Plenty of hot guys there.
I don't think that’s what most were trying to say. I know that’s not what I was trying to say. If husband (or wife) for that matter doesn’t trust their SO, then there are other issues going on.
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Should we forbid a married woman from going to the gym then too? Plenty of hot guys there. Or should we forbid married women from going to sporting events?
That’s pushing the extreme edge a bit, maybe just to garner a rise out of someone, or maybe you’ve dealt with a husband or a friend’s husband or SO who was this controlling. Again, not what I was trying to say.
Most men and women don’t go to the gym to ‘hook up’, sure there are some, but by definition being all hot, sweaty and stinking isn’t exactly what most people think of when they consider meeting people of the opposite sex. I can always tell the people looking to “people shop” where I work out (I go in the morning before work, my wife goes before she goes to work at 3pm) they usually have on cologne and perfume when “working out”. They are also the people who jump on a treadmill or bike and use it for few minutes, or (guys mainly) who do bicep curls in front of the mirror and little else. My son is 15, and is in exceptional shape (one of my motivating reasons for getting back in the gym since I was a very competitive athlete, as he is now) and I constantly have to harp on him to not worry about how much weight but correct form. When he talks about guys with huge arms I’ve always told him to look at their legs. Huge arms and chicken legs are amusing, at least for us. But I digress.
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How come a married man can go out with his friends to Hooters or a sports bar being served by hot women and that's okay but a married woman cannot go out dancing with her friends? Oh yeah, the women at the bar aren't interested in them. Sure. Men continue to go there in the hopes that they are and continue to go. If it REALLY was about hanging out with their buddies....the would go to a basement and watch the game.
I’m sure there are married guys who go to Hooters and other place to ogle the women. I would think most that fit this bill would go to a strip club, but hey I’m just a guy.
The big difference? When wives are out at a dance club, where there tends to be a big single male presence, the object for many of these people (single people that is, women and men) is to MEET someone. I don’t recall ever having been asked to dance by a Hooter’s waitress? Or having a Hooter’s waitress offer to BUY me a drink. Maybe it’s just me?
If my wife wants to go dancing, she tells me that, and we go. If I don’t feel like dancing every minute, or she simply wants to dance with her friends, she does. My wife has expressed how she feels better even if I’m just there, off the dance floor. Just knowing I’m there in case something happens. She also mentioned that it’s a lot easier to get rid of a creepy guy by pointing out me and saying “That’s my husband. Go away.” I may be “Beta” in some relationship issues, but at 6’3 245lbs I’m Alpha in appearance whether I care to be or not. In fact, when we were dating my wife’s friends used to tell guys, that kept bugging them, that I was their boyfriend. Worked for me, I got free drinks out of the deal much of the time.
Then there is the physical safety issue. Date rape drugs are out there. There are guys who have no qualms about trying to drug or get a woman drunk and get what he wants. Not to mention that most of these clubs aren’t the safest environment, especially towards the end of the night when most people have had one or five too many to drink.
Again, just my experience and my opinion. Take it or leave it.
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I think men project too much. They know EXACTLY the reasons why they go to bars where half naked women serve them and just assume that a woman going out dancing is doing the same thing. No, no we aren't.
Again, we’re not all the same. I don’t go to the local Hooters. Why? The food sucks and the service is worse. If I’m on the other side of town, I might go to that one, but it’s always crowded. My wife was a waitress, when we met, and after we moved in together. We got to know each other after I spent a lot of time coming there to see her. I watched how guys flirted and talked trash, that’s what a lot of us do. Most of them just want an attractive woman to be nice to them. Some get off on having a woman server them, and even more of them just want to go out have a beer, a decent meal, maybe catch a game, and if the waitress looks attractive, then hey, they get to look at some nice scenery. We are VISUAL creatures by design. Not something we caused, not something we can change.
My wife wouldn’t want me to go to a club that’s considered a single’s hangout, and I don’t blame her. I never cared for them much when I was single. It’s a respect issue in a relationship. Now if the husband has no problem with it, by all means.
I will say, having seen several of my wife’s friends who have gotten divorced or who aren’t married, that many times these women are the ones wanting to go to the club type atmosphere, women like wingmen just as much as men.
I wish the OP would come back and clear some things up.
It sounds like anything these ladies do, their husbands have issues with. That they throw a fit every time, so they never get to go out. That wouldn't fly with me, especially since the guys go away for the weekend...a sports weekend away? Really? They can't hang in the basement?
Seems a little odd that the guys can go away an entire weekend, but the wives can't go out for an evening. She even said the location can change if it's a problem, and they'd be willing to have the guys go dancing with them. But it still seems like it's an issue.
It seems plenty of guys here have a mighty low opinion of women, and that's at the heart of the opposition to them going out dancing with friends. The argument appears to be that women are too weak-minded to resist the wily charms of a man on the prowl. They're too primordially driven to turn down a man who asks them to dance. They lack the willpower to withstand temptation.
It's not that we men want to keep them from going out and having fun, but - for their own sake - we must keep them from temptation. Posted via Mobile Device
Even with that, there is a difference between that and a dance club, in that the wait staff of an establishment are not there with the aim of meeting woman.
No, the aim of those establishments are to please men. Why else would they wear what they wear, comfort? Alcohol is freely served at sports bars as well. So should a married man be barred from going to that?
No, the aim of those establishments are to please men. Why else would they wear what they wear, comfort? Alcohol is freely served at sports bars as well. So should a married man be barred from going to that?
I am not sure how this comment addresses my point that the wait staff at a bar is not there to pick up men or woman. Nonetheless, if his wife did not want him to go there, then yes he should not go out of respect to his wife and her boundaries. They should discuss places for him to get together with his friends (and she with hers) that both can be comfortable with. To my mind, singles bars (which the dance clubs being discussed really are) are not appropriate.
I am not sure how this comment addresses my point that the wait staff at a bar is not there to pick up men or woman. Nonetheless, if his wife did not want him to go there, then yes he should not go out of respect to his wife and her boundaries. They should discuss places for him to get together with his friends (and she with hers) that both can be comfortable with. To my mind, singles bars (which the dance clubs being discussed really are) are not appropriate.
Correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but are you saying a man's wife should have veto powers over where he and his friends go to hang out?
I suppose I could understand a few extreme exceptions (brothels, for example), but otherwise ... Yikes. Posted via Mobile Device
Let me make sure I understand you. A woman cannot go out with her friends because of a perceived thing that she is going to do. Should we forbid a married woman from going to the gym then too? Plenty of hot guys there. Or should we forbid married women from going to sporting events? Plenty of hot guys there. How come a married man can go out with his friends to Hooters or a sports bar being served by hot women and that's okay but a married woman cannot go out dancing with her friends? Oh yeah, the women at the bar aren't interested in them. Sure. Men continue to go there in the hopes that they are and continue to go. If it REALLY was about hanging out with their buddies....the would go to a basement and watch the game.
I think men project too much. They know EXACTLY the reasons why they go to bars where half naked women serve them and just assume that a woman going out dancing is doing the same thing. No, no we aren't.
So again you totally missed the point of anythting I have said. No doubt my fault again.
The problem is the putting of oneself into those environments. You use the word forbid. Not I dear lady. You know me better than that. I expect resepct from my wife. I do not forbid her anything. I do however have my own boundaries as to what I will accept in my marriage. I will not accept disrespect. I don't have to. These places are for single people or for folks in open relationships. How open depends on the couple.
I would not want my wife to have a male personal trainer. I would not have a female personal trainer. I just throw that out there. As usual though you wish to change the venue. But if that gym is an overnight stay at a hotel, drinking alcohol, and involves my wife being groped by the guys at the gym then yeah I have a problem with that. I spend a lot of time at the gym. Guys do their best to hit on the women. Me I in the f'ing squat rack and pretty much the more plates I put on the farther folks back away which suits me fine. I go to the gym to lift. Many women go to the gym to be hit on and wear skimpy clothes for the attention. I could care less whether they are married or not. I do not interact with them. But is it not equivalent to a meat market GNO. If I was giving them nassages and grinding into them then that would be more equivalent, but lets lower the lights and get stinking drunk first and wear some easy access clothing.
The topic is about meat markets, staying out all night all night, drinking heavily and dancing up close and personal with strange men. You do not want to defend that because you know it is undefenseable so you try to make it about something else. To me if the husband is ok with it then not harm no fool, maybe just a tad naive.
Hooters? Really Hooters? I have not been to a Hooters in a while. Can I grind on drunk babes there? If so maybe you are right. Hooters? The people I know who like Hooters actually like the hot wings. So the wives can go out all night, get drunk, dance with strange men and the husbands alternative is to go to Hooters? Kids go to Hooters.
Are you equating something legal to something that has anything to do with marriage? Meaning as long as it is within the law it is something guys need to accept from their wives? Same for husbands.
Did anything I write indicate I thought it was ok for husbands to go to these clubs, dance with women and nail them? Does anyone think this is ok?
Church was mentioned. I would have a problem with a church where my wife stayed overnight, had much to drink and was being groped by other men.
Meet the teacher night at school. I would be against my wife going to an all night teacher meeting where there was heavy drinking and men were feeling her up for entertainment.
Meat markets are designed for this activity. If your hubby is ok with any of this then great have a good time. But if he is not you are showing your priorities.
There are way too many posts on TAM about women hooking up at GNO, women using GNO as a cover for their affairs, women feeling their husbands were uncaring for going along with GNO too easily, and women "making a mistake" at a GNO to oversimplify the issue and assign it to men somehow.
It is not a gender issue, it is one spouse putting themselves in a position that makes the other uncomfortable.
Take the blinders off people... Google is your friend.
I don't think that’s what most were trying to say. I know that’s not what I was trying to say. If husband (or wife) for that matter doesn’t trust their SO, then there are other issues going on.
That’s pushing the extreme edge a bit, maybe just to garner a rise out of someone, or maybe you’ve dealt with a husband or a friend’s husband or SO who was this controlling. Again, not what I was trying to say.
Most men and women don’t go to the gym to ‘hook up’, sure there are some, but by definition being all hot, sweaty and stinking isn’t exactly what most people think of when they consider meeting people of the opposite sex. I can always tell the people looking to “people shop” where I work out (I go in the morning before work, my wife goes before she goes to work at 3pm) they usually have on cologne and perfume when “working out”. They are also the people who jump on a treadmill or bike and use it for few minutes, or (guys mainly) who do bicep curls in front of the mirror and little else. My son is 15, and is in exceptional shape (one of my motivating reasons for getting back in the gym since I was a very competitive athlete, as he is now) and I constantly have to harp on him to not worry about how much weight but correct form. When he talks about guys with huge arms I’ve always told him to look at their legs. Huge arms and chicken legs are amusing, at least for us. But I digress.
I’m sure there are married guys who go to Hooters and other place to ogle the women. I would think most that fit this bill would go to a strip club, but hey I’m just a guy.
The big difference? When wives are out at a dance club, where there tends to be a big single male presence, the object for many of these people (single people that is, women and men) is to MEET someone. I don’t recall ever having been asked to dance by a Hooter’s waitress? Or having a Hooter’s waitress offer to BUY me a drink. Maybe it’s just me?
If my wife wants to go dancing, she tells me that, and we go. If I don’t feel like dancing every minute, or she simply wants to dance with her friends, she does. My wife has expressed how she feels better even if I’m just there, off the dance floor. Just knowing I’m there in case something happens. She also mentioned that it’s a lot easier to get rid of a creepy guy by pointing out me and saying “That’s my husband. Go away.” I may be “Beta” in some relationship issues, but at 6’3 245lbs I’m Alpha in appearance whether I care to be or not. In fact, when we were dating my wife’s friends used to tell guys, that kept bugging them, that I was their boyfriend. Worked for me, I got free drinks out of the deal much of the time.
Then there is the physical safety issue. Date rape drugs are out there. There are guys who have no qualms about trying to drug or get a woman drunk and get what he wants. Not to mention that most of these clubs aren’t the safest environment, especially towards the end of the night when most people have had one or five too many to drink.
Again, just my experience and my opinion. Take it or leave it.
Again, we’re not all the same. I don’t go to the local Hooters. Why? The food sucks and the service is worse. If I’m on the other side of town, I might go to that one, but it’s always crowded. My wife was a waitress, when we met, and after we moved in together. We got to know each other after I spent a lot of time coming there to see her. I watched how guys flirted and talked trash, that’s what a lot of us do. Most of them just want an attractive woman to be nice to them. Some get off on having a woman server them, and even more of them just want to go out have a beer, a decent meal, maybe catch a game, and if the waitress looks attractive, then hey, they get to look at some nice scenery. We are VISUAL creatures by design. Not something we caused, not something we can change.
My wife wouldn’t want me to go to a club that’s considered a single’s hangout, and I don’t blame her. I never cared for them much when I was single. It’s a respect issue in a relationship. Now if the husband has no problem with it, by all means.
I will say, having seen several of my wife’s friends who have gotten divorced or who aren’t married, that many times these women are the ones wanting to go to the club type atmosphere, women like wingmen just as much as men.
I appreciate your insight.
No, Hooters girls don't get up and dance but what on Earth is the purpose for a married man going there? Food is crap, worst wings on the planet and served by women who on any given day (minus the nylons) could easily show pubic hair. So why would a married man go to such a place unless it was to oogle and check out women. Same as a sports bar here in Houston. Somehow that is okay but a married woman going out with her friends to dance is not? I honestly just don't get nor do I care to. It is a complete double standard and those who say women shouldn't go out with their friends to dance better be ready to stay at home as well.
Correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but are you saying a man's wife should have veto powers over where he and his friends go to hang out?
I suppose I could understand a few extreme exceptions (brothels, for example), but otherwise ... Yikes. Posted via Mobile Device
Not at all. They are both adults and neither can stop the other one from going some where, even to a brothel. But in a good marriage, a husband and wife should communicate about issues and boundaries they have. They should also respect the reasonable boundaries of their partner.
If my wife told me she was uncomfortable with me going somewhere (let's say Hooters), I would talk to her about why and what I could do to make her more comfortable. I do this because I respect my wife and want her to feel comfortable. That is worth more to me than going to a place with crappy food and bleached blonds.
My wife does not have a veto over what I do. To use that language is more than a bit inflamatory and leading, in my opinion. But when she speaks (whether out loud or through body language about something, I listen to what she is saying.
TRBE, if a W is going to the gym or sporting event because there are hot guys there (or even just to get attention from not-so-ot guys) it is inappropriate. Just as inappropriate as a married man going to hooters to gawk at the waitresses is inappropriate. As to the gym, where there is proper equipment and professional trainers, sporting events, where people go to enjoy being a spectator, or a sports bar where guys go to drink and eat pub food while spectating sports, what exactly is a married woman's reason for going to a night club? What does she get there that is exclusive to that kind of place, besides looking sexy for the guys? And to be clear, 99.9% of straight men are not there to dance (though they will spend time on the dance floor because thats what it takes for them to get what they ARE there for).
Entropy nailed it earlier when he wrote that people go to bars to bathe in that atmosphere.
There are way too many posts on TAM about women hooking up at GNO, women using GNO as a cover for their affairs, women feeling their husbands were uncaring for going along with GNO too easily, and women "making a mistake" at a GNO to oversimplify the issue and assign it to men somehow.
It is not a gender issue, it is one spouse putting themselves in a position that makes the other uncomfortable.
Take the blinders off people... Google is your friend.
If you want to bar GNOs on the basis of their being "way too many posts" on TAM about them leading to trouble, might I also suggest we ban:
- Facebook
- having an ex
- women in the workplace
- having neighbors
- online gaming
- chat rooms
- message boards (bad news for TAM)
- going back to school
- socializing with other adults
A GNO is just one of many situations where temptation could exist. And one that is far less treacherous than several of the
above. Can't get rid of them all. Posted via Mobile Device
It seems plenty of guys here have a mighty low opinion of women, and that's at the heart of the opposition to them going out dancing with friends. The argument appears to be that women are too weak-minded to resist the wily charms of a man on the prowl. They're too primordially driven to turn down a man who asks them to dance. They lack the willpower to withstand temptation.
It's not that we men want to keep them from going out and having fun, but - for their own sake - we must keep them from temptation. Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, I lack the ability to say I'm married, no thanks, f@ck off. I also smell cologne and toss my underwear aside to get ravished in the men's stall......don't you know. I am weak and powerless and any Barracuda man will take away my core beliefs, my values and my soul for a night of screwing over a toilet. Yup, you caught me.
I have to wonder if (some) married men here are projecting. Would they do that if a woman was coming on to them? My guess is yes and thus they assume any woman who goes out dancing with friends would do the same. Hmmmm.
Correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but are you saying a man's wife should have veto powers over where he and his friends go to hang out?
I suppose I could understand a few extreme exceptions (brothels, for example), but otherwise ... Yikes. Posted via Mobile Device
If my wife had a problem with where I was hanging out we would discuss it and work it out. It works both ways. It works for us. I have an open mind. My wife is more important to me than the guys. Many women have a problem with their husbands going to strip clubs while others like to go along. It is a couples thing. They work it out.
I suppose in theory this could be an issue. It just never has.
I appreciate your insight.
No, Hooters girls don't get up and dance but what on Earth is the purpose for a married man going there? Food is crap, worst wings on the planet and served by women who on any given day (minus the nylons) could easily show pubic hair. So why would a married man go to such a place unless it was to oogle and check out women. Same as a sports bar here in Houston. Somehow that is okay but a married woman going out with her friends to dance is not? I honestly just don't get nor do I care to. It is a complete double standard and those who say women shouldn't go out with their friends to dance better be ready to stay at home as well.
For it to be a double standard, it has to be similar events that are being treated differently. But you are comparing different things. The wives are not asking to go to the wine bar with the two hot studly bar tenders to serve them. They want to go to a dance club where there are men who want to dance with them while buying them alcohol and hoping to pick them up. Think of it as passive versus active.
If people were arguing that women should not attend the wine bar I described but advocating that men should be able to attend the sports bars you describe, then I agree that would be a double standard. I have not seen that occur.
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Re: The girls night out debacle... 
