I occasionally went to dance clubs in my younger days and often saw women dancing together, frequently in groups of three or four.
I've never, ever seen a group of guys dancing together.
Apples and oranges, my friend.
You continue to make the assumption that a woman goes out dancing with her friends for the sole purpose of being hit/grinded upon. Posted via Mobile Device
I am making the assumption that the OP meant that. It may have just been a grenade launched for effect.
Very much joking about the men dancing. Though that is done in some cultures.
In principle the dancing close and persistent flirting with the men would be my main concern. Very easy for innocent things to turn into less innocent things. Also while we admittedly lump things into meat market and have some idea of what that might be, it does matter about the venus itself.
So lets shift gears here a bit. Let's say for argument sake the husband is ok with the GNO once in a blue moon if the ladies wnet to a "club" and just stayed ladies only and perhaps danced as a group. I get that. It is a much grayer situation so it does make boundary setting trickier but I'll go there.
Is there any advice besides "trust her" that the ladies who do what TRBE does for her GNOs that they can help husbands with this gray area.
Maybe elaborate what some boundaries might be in a healthy marriage.
I bet there are many.
From a guys perspective I would encourage the husband to actually go to that club and check it out. Preferrably with his wife. I suppose this could be a doubel edged sword. he may feel better or he may not.
I think keeping wedding rings on is a good idea though many see this as a target. I think a woman can dress sexy without being slvtty looking. Should a husband care? In general I would think no worries, but we have to admit some women take this a bit far and it draws attention that basically challenges the men to go past boundaries. BTW folks just saying you are married will not deter very many folks.
Or am I now trying to just kill all the fun? If a woman changes her clothes in the car and before she gets home a red flag?
Most certainly not if the chick has bacon in her bra ...
If a woman has a drink in her hand, she is powerless to the men who come her way. I often find that bacon does the trick, as in "fetch".
To say a woman is somehow powerless, unable to live up to her standards and yielding her vows for some sad sack who buys her alcohol is ridiculous. Yes, I am sure it exists but it is no more ridiculous than my example of a sports bar and all guys who go there are looking to hook up. My point is, many are and many aren't. Period.
There have been numerous posts here about this issue. It crops up all the time. Wine bars are still viewed as somehow "bad" for married women because afterall **gasp** alcohol is served there and they are alone. Hooters, sports bars, strip clubs = A-Okay, the excuse being "the women aren't there to pick up the married men". No. But the men SURE are there to pick up the women but somehow that's fine.
So let me ask you, if there are women at a sports bar who flirts with you....should you be barred from ever going? Are you not able to say no, no thanks, married, (points) to ring? Why on Earth do you suppose us unable to do the same? My guess? Women have an easier time turning down sex. Men? Not so much and they put themselves in that situation and make vast assumptions that us women will behave the same. Lordy and
Ok so we talked about some extremes. Now into those real life gray areas.
Yup I am cool with wine bars. Need some good boundaries here though.
If I were single and wanted to pickup women, a wine bar would be where I would go. Not to a sports bar. So good point. There is less expectaion of touching at a wine bar than a club, but it depends does it not. Snuggling up in a booth together can be very cozy tasting those wines.
Women can have sex any time they want. Most men cannot BTW. I think that plays in here somehow.
Guys go to a sports bar to drink and eat? Please, just spare me. If that were true, a burly ugly man would be serving food and fist pumping the air when "the team" scored. Instead you get "Crystal" who is 20 and shoves her tits in your face when giving you wings and doesn't know a darn thing about "the team".
I don't give a crap what men do at a club. I don't care why they are there either. I care why I am there. To have fun with my married friends and dance, period. Again, why the projection??
Well, I know I do. In my city there is a couple known spots where the waitresses dress particularly ****ty, I never went to any of those pubs until recently, after my separation, though it was by chance not really cause I wanted to see some cleavage. The food at one particular sports bar is actually pretty good and cheap for the quanitity plus there are all sorts of games on the TVs. The waitresses there don't look particularly happy, atleast not for me and my ugly guy friends, it is only when they bring the bill that they push up their boobs and turn on the smiles. My usual sports bar hangouts the waitresses are friendly the whole time, not skankified and not really that flirty and yes they sometimes have burly male servers too that fist pump the air when the 'Riders score a TD.
I understand and believe you when you say many women aren't going to bars to grind on guys... most of the time when the women go they dance in a circle by themselves, so they can say it is just innocent. It is an invitation for guys to try to get and stay in that circle though. Most guys are rejected (ie us girls are not weak we can tell them to fvck off) only the most charming ones get into the circle (they are harmless and we can tell them to fvck off at any time), and of course they will scope out all the girls but usually have a target in mind. If you think it is all innocent it probably means you are not the target. However you will feel compelled to play along especially if there is a single girl in the group.
I have female friends who do this, many times my ex went along... looking back I remember one time (and it really is just dawning on my) I saw a photo of my W with a bunch of her girls on the GNO all of them kissing some freshly shaved bald guy on the head... I asked my W who the guy was, she said "I don't know some guy that was trying to dance with us" well he was dancing with them, and getting kisses. I suggested (because I really was a trusting and gutless beta husband) it made me uncomfortable, she told me to relax they were just having fun it meant nothing, and to her it really did mean nothing - at the time I had complete trust in her so it meant nothing to me either.
Now, with the gift of hindsight I can see how that kind of behavior really meant that we didn't have well defined boundaries and I wasn't prepared to enforce them. My W thought it was completely appropriate, and really what harm is there, its fun right? I too may have even kissed the guy on the head if I were there. But I wasn't there, and how much of a stretch is it for a woman to give him a quick friendly hug next? If they are already hugging and dancing, "innocently" a smack on the bottom might be kind of funny right? He is just like one of the girls now, he even dances in their circle.
I know all this for fact. The times when I would go to the bar with my W and our friends the guys would sit and drink and the girls would be on the dance floor, in a circle the whole time... just as I imagine they do on a GNO. We would watch our wives dance, sometimes join for a song or two, inevitably if we didn't give them attention some guy would try getting in. If there was enough attention from the other guys at the bar one or more of us would go make ourselves visible to stake our territory. Thinking back I realize how stupid I was to let my W go out without me all those times, even though I believed she would have no problem telling a creep to get lost.
I am not defending anything, simply saying your stance that all married women who go out to dance are looking to cheat/hook up/get felt up is crap.
You know you and I will never see eye to eye on this so let's just agree that bacon is awesome, okay?
Not my stance. You know that. We have discussed this enough.
I think it is ok we do not see "exactly" eye to eye but we are not all that far apart either.
My friends and I never had this issue. We clearly loved to dance, and our spouses didn't. So we'd be dancing with one another, having a blast, excluding any men trying to break into our little clique, and having our fun while the guys were at tables or the bar. They understood our need to let loose like this, and once we had kids and it was important to have GNO occasionally, our spouses knew that we were doing this for US, not for whatever attention from other men we might get. If a man isn't confident that his wife wants to come home to him, he has a bigger problem than GNO.
Having said that, if any of the women in the group is an insecure attention-***** (to put it politely, haha), I wouldn't have fun with that woman on GNO b/c it would change the dynamics. My 3 gfs and their spouses were like my (now ex) husband and me, so no one had a problem with it. Yes, we were, as a group, extremely attractive--and yes, men might try to hit on us, but we did not want or need that attention and after blowing off a guy or two, men in the place would know, "don't bother."
Men who cannot trust their wives to put other men in their proper place (in this scenario) don't have much respect for their wife's maturity. Bring up this specific issue--"Don't you think I can handle myself? If not, why not?" and see how it goes. A calm and rationale conversation might be useful. And if husbands think that married women who are attractive do not get hit on all the time, anyway, and who do not realize that a lot of us have plenty of experience handling ourselves in these situations, might be surprised. With a really insecure man, such knowledge will be threatening, but that is his problem, since the point is NOT that we get hit on, but that we've been successfully handling it for years.
You are confusing things with science and facts again.
Said science saying "in a limited study of ONE Austrian nightclub found that women in relationships showed a little more skin when dancing and, subjectively, moved a little more flirtatiously."
Some thoughts:
1. That's hardly enough of a sample size to make a scientific conclusion.
2. It's a HUGE leap to suggest showing a little more skin = cheating.
3. They make no effort to distinguish between married women vs those with a boyfriend. I think that's a fairly huge distinction to ignore.
4. Studies show women while ovulating dress more revealingly in general. Why is it a shocking discovery to learn that they do so in a nightclub? Posted via Mobile Device
But all in all I post so much in these threads because I am intrigued by all sides of this because they relate to boundaries.
So often we will agree that boundaries are a good thing, but it is interesting for me to see where folks put theirs. It is like driving though. Those going too slow are idiots and those going faster are crazy.
In practice I am more liberal than I come off. The thing about the meat market GNO is that boundaries are very hard to set and frankly monitor. Maybe that is the issue. The answer by many is you just have to have 100% trust in your spouse, the circumstance and the people who they interact with. Then we throw in alcohol and peer pressure. Some of us handle peer pressure better than others.
Said science saying "in a limited study of ONE Austrian nightclub found that women in relationships showed a little more skin when dancing and, subjectively, moved a little more flirtatiously."
Some thoughts:
1. That's hardly enough of a sample size to make a scientific conclusion.
2. It's a HUGE leap to suggest showing a little more skin = cheating.
3. They make no effort to distinguish between married women vs those with a boyfriend. I think that's a fairly huge distinction to ignore.
4. Studies show women while ovulating dress more revealingly in general. Why is it a shocking discovery to learn that they do so in a nightclub? Posted via Mobile Device
No doubt. It is interesting though and I think there is something to this.
In all seriousness if one is concerned about a woman maybe crossing some boundaries it would be during ovulation ... as crazy as that sounds ... scientifically speaking.
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Re: The girls night out debacle... 
