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Old 05-10-2012, 07:08 PM   #316 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

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Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
Listening to music at home it's no the same as listening to it in a night club.

But I agree with you when it comes to bounderies.
Right, cause there's not a flock of drunk horny guys validating self-esteem issues at home.

As Trenton said, if she's the exception, then she's just that, an exception.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:11 PM   #317 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

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Originally Posted by Trenton View Post
I wonder though...is it OK to look at porn?

Hooters may be a public proclamation of some sort that you like boobs but what message does porn send the wife?
I don't think porn is ok, but I'm not sure what you're getting at.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:11 PM   #318 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

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Originally Posted by sundown1965 View Post
about two years ago my wife and three married girlfriends went on an out of town girls getaway. they are all early forties and very attractive ladies.
yes they did the spa, shopping thing, but they also went to clubs at night.
my wife said they did not drink much and just visited and people watched.
she did say that the second night a group of about six guys late twenties/early thirties came in and one had on a "grrom to be" T-shirt.
she said that one of her friends(the ringleader) was teasing the groom a little.
this was a very packed hotspot by the way..
she said none of the other girls had any contact with them.
I think she admitted that much in case it ever came up in conversation with our friends.
Even though I was uncomfortable, i didn't make waves,
So a few days after she gets home she asks me to dowload the pictures of the trip and put them all on a dik for her friends.
She did not know that I have software to recover deleted pictures from a memory stick.

there were several pictures of the girls at this club dressed very sexy, low cut shirts, tons of makeup etc.

In these deleted pictures the girls were intoxicated with shot glasses all over the table. several pictures of these guys at the table with them, hugging for the snapshot, and some of the girls dancing with these guys, some dirty dancing,
yes they seemed to be laughing and having fun, but is that appropriate??
when I confronted my wife she said that the ringleader invited them over and she felt she had to go along...and not be rude.

she usually would call me when they got back to their room to tell me goodnight, that night I just got a text at 11:00 saying they were back and going to bed. the date time stamp on the deleted pictures went till almost 2:00 AM

Do I think they all got laid?? no, But seeking attention from other men for an ego boost and to prove to yourself that you still "got It" is wrong.
Trust is a terrible thing to waste for an ego boost.
Forget about anyone getting laid. What do we know from this?

Inappropirate Behavior -- check

Unfaithful Behavior -- check

- Lying
- Secrecy
- Covering up activities, deleting pictures she knew were evidence of her unfaithfulness.

Cheating -- Depends how you define cheating. Since there was so much lying who knows? Does it matter?

But this was definitley playing / grinding / groping with other men. No doubt the attention is a rush. Even the feeling of naughtiness in dressing sexy by showing skin and having contact. Probably sans undergarments for the bolder ladies. Just a bit of fun.

All I am saying is that this was unfaithful behavior. Now whether ot not you know the limit of the unfaithfulness is a matter of conjecture. But you do know there was lying to you and covering up what really went on / goes on. You go girl.

So trust is validated? Ummmm. No.

Did any of the ladies engage in some kind of activity their husbands would have been upset about. No doubt. Did any engage in activities that would have broken their vows. I think very possibly. How many? They will never tell. The overnight hotel covers many infidelities ....
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Last edited by Entropy3000; 05-10-2012 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:32 PM   #319 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

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I'm saying, where does what we think cross over to what we do and finally cross over to being a betrayal to the one we love? Is it defined by us? Defined by our lover? Society?

Do you reason that it's OK to think it as long as you don't take action on it?
Thinking a woman has a fine looking behind is not in the same realm as caressing it with your hands. No moral equivalence to these.

Wanting to smack someone in the face is not as bad as actually doing it.

Not sure where you are going with this. Are we equating men's use of porn and women playing with the guys at da club?

My wife and I have an official boundary of look but do not touch. This does not mean I go out of my way to look. We do not have to take our actions to the warning track up against the proverbial wall.

But the betrayal in much of this is not even the lust of the heart. It is the disrespect and unfaithfulness of the choices made. IMHO.

The problem with the thought process is that thoughts can become affirmations. Meaning thoughts can become actions if we are not careful.
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Last edited by Entropy3000; 05-10-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:35 PM   #320 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

Betrayal occurs when you engage in any activity that potentially hurts your spouse, and you don't care. And yes porn can be such an activity.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:37 PM   #321 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

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Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
I think I'm the exception on this board, for sure. The rest of my dnb chicks are too busy getting their hustle on for some more tickets than to be arguing on a marriage board.
There's loads of music threads in the Social Spot...it would be great if you headed over there some time with your dnb addiction
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:38 PM   #322 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

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Forget about anyone getting laid. What do we know from this?

Inappropirate Behavior -- check

Unfaithful Behavior -- check

- Lying
- Secrecy
- Covering up activities, deleting pictures she knew were evidence of her unfaithfulness.

Cheating -- Depends how you define cheating. Since there was so much lying who knows? Does it matter?

But this was definitley playing / grinding / groping with other men. No doubt the attention is a rush. Even the feeling of naughtiness in dressing sexy by showing skin and having contact. Probably sans undergarments for the bolder ladies. Just a bit of fun.

All I am saying is that this was unfaithful behavior. Now whether ot not you know the limit of the unfaithfulness is a matter of conjecture. But you do know there was lying to you and covering up what really went on / goes on. You go girl.

So trust is validated? Ummmm. No.

Did any of the ladies engage in some kind of activity their husbands would have been upset about. No doubt. Did any engage in activities that would have broken their vows. I think very possibly. How many? They will never tell. The overnight hotel covers many infidelities ....
while i truly believe i know my wife and her friends better than to think anyone got laid I believe it was deffinatly a level of unfaithfullness on their parts.
The troubling and amazing part to me was the way my wife was able to come home and lie to my face without giving any thought to it..I actually asked her before I found the pictures specific questions about that night and what interaction they had with those men. and she point by point lied without any problems...when cought she said she lied because she knew I would not believe they did nothing wrong ..
some kind of girl code allows them to think they are entitled to this type of behavior...
I believe this type of gno is very common with married ladies,and most husbands never find out.
I just happen to recover deleted pictures....

Last edited by sundown1965; 05-10-2012 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:41 PM   #323 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

You are a more forgiving person than I for sure. That probably would have been a dealbreaker for me. It would have proved that I could not trust my wife.

It would make you wonder if you just happened to come upon these pictures and that this was the one and only time in the marriage there was unfaithfulness. A miracle. Life is usually a little more hit and miss.

The pictures were not as bad as the hiding and lying about them. Why hide them? Why indeed? Was there more to this?
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:59 PM   #324 (permalink)
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Really? Would your wife not be as hurt by the idea that you want to have sex with someone else? Isn't pretending that it wouldn't hurt her or that you can't control it just more cognitive reasoning? I mean where do we draw the line between right and wrong when the reality is so many of us are wrong so much of the time.
I think we draw the line at unfaithful behavior.

Caressing a woman's behind is cheating in my marriage. Admiring a woman's behind is not the same. Honestly. Actually rubbing your hands on her behind would be unfaithful. Just like a man grinding his erection into you would be unfaithful at a dance club. Him just thinking about grinding into you would not be the same thing as him actually doing it.

So I see where you are going. If a woman even thinks about dancing at one of these clubs with another guy and grinding on him and taking him up to her room and banging him all night long as she texts her hubby this is not ok. She might as well actually do this? The thought is the same as the action. Seriously?

Wow this is like the movie forbidden planet where the Krell's thoughts were manifested for them in reality. Of course they were destroyed by monsters from the ID.

Anyway, while I do think romance novels ( female porn ), are silly I do not think that a woman reading this is the same as her banging some real guy.

I never said I wanted to have sex with any other woman in the world. I don't. But I can admire a woman with a fine looking behind just like those construction workers do where you work ......
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:03 PM   #325 (permalink)
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I'm saying, where does what we think cross over to what we do and finally cross over to being a betrayal to the one we love? Is it defined by us? Defined by our lover? Society?

Do you reason that it's OK to think it as long as you don't take action on it?
I'm not sure if you're asking generally or me specifically.

My personal take is, no it's not OK to think about other women. Do I do it from time to time, yes, I'm not perfect. That is defined by me. If I was ok with it, and my wife was ok with it, then fine, no biggy.

My problem with the GNO is not even with the intentions, it's with the danger of it.

There is a clear difference between fantasizing about a woman while you're in the shower, and fantasizing about a woman at a brothel. If I think about a woman in my head, it's never going to be more than a bad thought. But if I end up in a brothel, and make a bad judgement call, I can end up doing some pretty stupid things.

When we want to lose weight, we go through our pantries and clear out the junk food. Why? Because we know if we have a moment of weakness, we won't gorge on snickers bars. If you hang out in the candy aisle long enough, it only takes one moment of weakness to end up in a bad situation.

So to me, the situations we put ourselves in are of similar importance to our intentions. Going to a club, alone, late at night, especially if drinking, is a bad situation. It takes ACTIVE boundaries and strength to stay faithful. The atmosphere makes it very easy to blend the lines of what is appropriate in a marriage. So why would you put yourself in a situation where you have to rely on your relationship being great, and your willpower being high, to stay faithful? Why not just remove yourself from the potentially dangerous situation all together?

I trust the woman who is not happy with her current marriage but is going to the grocery store more than I trust the "I love my husband" woman who is going to the club with her BFFs.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:13 PM   #326 (permalink)
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IMO a married person who hangs out in these types of places until closing is sending the message to others that they are potentially avaiable if you can seduce them. It is the whole point of being there. It especially sends the message if they are slowly giving up their boundaries as the night goes on. Being seduced is the thrill.

Add alcohol. Add sexy outfits. Add a hotel room.

It is classic PUA.

Instigation

Isolation

Escalation
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:18 PM   #327 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm asking in general, not intended on a judgement on you of any sort.

I just think thoughts are just as wrong but we forgive them as we can keep them to ourselves and excuse them. Thoughts are the formation for action.

I do think this is why I'm always compelled to blurt mine out. I can't stand to keep them in. Yet, I've met quite a few (my husband being one and I assure you this is almost a relief, yet also a frustration) who keep most thoughts to themselves.

I often wonder if they're just rotting inside and afraid to get out.
I totally agree. I am all about the positive aspects of affirmations ( Lou Tice ). We program our behaviors through our thoughts.

Still, every single micro thought we have are not the same as actions. In fact the thoughts may just be part of an inner moral dialogue where rational decisions are made. Alcohol does not help here BTW.

In support of what you are saying I absolutley believe that if we let our thoughts wonder too much we are programming ourselves to possible future behavior. But in no way is my admiration for that hot car the same as me strealing that hot car.

Now if someone has sexual thoughts about an opposite sex friend I think that is just plain trouble waiting to happen. Same for co-workers.

So you are saying that women who go to meat market GNOs to soak up the attention from the men are actually being unfaithful because they are imagining these guys having sex with them? You may have a good point with that.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:19 PM   #328 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm asking in general, not intended on a judgement on you of any sort.

I just think thoughts are just as wrong but we forgive them as we can keep them to ourselves and excuse them. Thoughts are the formation for action.

I do think this is why I'm always compelled to blurt mine out. I can't stand to keep them in. Yet, I've met quite a few (my husband being one and I assure you this is almost a relief, yet also a frustration) who keep most thoughts to themselves.

I often wonder if they're just rotting inside and afraid to get out.
I agree wholeheartedly. I take the christian approach, Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you've committed adultery in your heart. I fully believe that.

But at the same time, my wife isn't going to divorce me if I picture you naked. However, if I'm in the shower with you while you're naked, and I'm still picturing you, I'm going to be in trouble.

I have gained an immense respect for the women who readily admit that they could be enticed by other men, and take active steps to prevent themselves from being put in a compromising position. My mom was one of them. After she found out about my wife's cheating, she told me a story about how a man at her work asked her out on a date (they were both married). She said he was very attractive and very successful. She made a point never to be alone with him, and if he ever called her to ask her to do something business related, she cut it short.

I'd much rather be married to a woman who admits they are fallible, and makes precautions to ensure she doesn't get tripped up, then be married to someone that thinks nothing could ever happen to them, so they willingly go into compromising positions.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:24 PM   #329 (permalink)
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How comfortable would many of the gno defending women be if their husbands had many female friends with whom they communicated with a couple of hours a week?
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:28 PM   #330 (permalink)
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& COguy, I don't have religion to fall back on. I take my own approach. I'd even garner a guess and say Christianity is a source of cognitive dissonance.
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