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Old 02-10-2012, 12:54 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

Look, some people need to get away from their spouses because it's what they need.

While others like to spend time with their spouse because they married them for that exact reason.

There is no wrong or right, like others have said it's whatever boundaries a couple has set up to make their marriage work.

If you need to go out to a bar/club to drink and have men hit on you (just to say no to them) and stroke your ego and make you feel better, that's what you need and that's your life not mine or anyone else. For the men it's to go to bars/strip clubs to oggle at the hotties and hit on them.

Me, at this point in life, I enjoy just sitting at home watching a movie with the wife and kids or just being around the house with everyone.

I get my once a year FF draft at a local bar with the guys (we go so much that I have snuck my little girl in their once or twice, yes it's that tame of a place), hunting trips and that's about it. Once in a blue moon an old buddy might be in town and if I'm not busy I'll go hang out with them at their house or a restaurant.

If you still need the thrill of OMG guys/girls still want me and I've still got it then that's what you need. Have at it, you're big girls/guys and you won't cheat on your spouse but needing verification from other men/women to make yourself feel young and vibrant is pretty sad, to me that is.

I'm overweight (not obese yet), balding, not as good looking like when I was in my 20's or early 30s. And you know what, I could care less what others think of me now. I have a great wife, rotten and spoiled kids and we live a comfortable life. That's all that counts for me right now.

I never could understand those married couples who say they just need time apart to recharge and make their marriage better. Why get married in the 1st place if you need time apart to be happier together, that just boggles my mind.

And to those that married social lepers, well you married them for a reason. If you're not happy that they can't meet your needs, leave, why stay. Oh I love him but he's does nothing, just sits at home, plays on the computer, watches sports, doesn't want to go out and do nothing with me, so I need GNO to make myself feel happy, see what's wrong there.

In the end, we all can agree to disagree, there is no wrong or right because I don't live your life and you don't live my life.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:02 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Look, some people need to get away from their spouses because it's what they need.

While others like to spend time with their spouse because they married them for that exact reason.

There is no wrong or right, like others have said it's whatever boundaries a couple has set up to make their marriage work.

If you need to go out to a bar/club to drink and have men hit on you (just to say no to them) and stroke your ego and make you feel better, that's what you need and that's your life not mine or anyone else. For the men it's to go to bars/strip clubs to oggle at the hotties and hit on them.

Me, at this point in life, I enjoy just sitting at home watching a movie with the wife and kids or just being around the house with everyone.

I get my once a year FF draft at a local bar with the guys (we go so much that I have snuck my little girl in their once or twice, yes it's that tame of a place), hunting trips and that's about it. Once in a blue moon an old buddy might be in town and if I'm not busy I'll go hang out with them at their house or a restaurant.

If you still need the thrill of OMG guys/girls still want me and I've still got it then that's what you need. Have at it, you're big girls/guys and you won't cheat on your spouse but needing verification from other men/women to make yourself feel young and vibrant is pretty sad, to me that is.

I'm overweight (not obese yet), balding, not as good looking like when I was in my 20's or early 30s. And you know what, I could care less what others think of me now. I have a great wife, rotten and spoiled kids and we live a comfortable life. That's all that counts for me right now.

I never could understand those married couples who say they just need time apart to recharge and make their marriage better. Why get married in the 1st place if you need time apart to be happier together, that just boggles my mind.

And to those that married social lepers, well you married them for a reason. If you're not happy that they can't meet your needs, leave, why stay. Oh I love him but he's does nothing, just sits at home, plays on the computer, watches sports, doesn't want to go out and do nothing with me, so I need GNO to make myself feel happy, see what's wrong there.

In the end, we all can agree to disagree, there is no wrong or right because I don't live your life and you don't live my life.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:08 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I disagree with this too. It is like playing russian roulette but its not your turn yet, it is easy to say "I can't die" because you are not holding the gun. When its your turn is when you will wish you had set a boundary to not even play the stupid game.
Wait ... like Russian roulette? Really? Do you know how patronizing that is? Do you really believe women are such weak-minded creatures that they just can't help themselves from having sex with any guy who comes along and offers the right game? That cheating, for a woman at least, is random act?
Sheesh. If that's true, why be upset about a cheating wife? After all, these fragile-minded, hormonally driven creatures just can't help themselves.

Someone in this thread said earlier that attraction is not a choice. That's largely true. But what one chooses to do about that attraction IS a choice. Just because a guy throws it out there doesn't mean a woman is going to grab on and go for a ride.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:19 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Look, some people need to get away from their spouses because it's what they need.

While others like to spend time with their spouse because they married them for that exact reason.

There is no wrong or right, like others have said it's whatever boundaries a couple has set up to make their marriage work.

If you need to go out to a bar/club to drink and have men hit on you (just to say no to them) and stroke your ego and make you feel better, that's what you need and that's your life not mine or anyone else. For the men it's to go to bars/strip clubs to oggle at the hotties and hit on them.

Me, at this point in life, I enjoy just sitting at home watching a movie with the wife and kids or just being around the house with everyone.

I get my once a year FF draft at a local bar with the guys (we go so much that I have snuck my little girl in their once or twice, yes it's that tame of a place), hunting trips and that's about it. Once in a blue moon an old buddy might be in town and if I'm not busy I'll go hang out with them at their house or a restaurant.

If you still need the thrill of OMG guys/girls still want me and I've still got it then that's what you need. Have at it, you're big girls/guys and you won't cheat on your spouse but needing verification from other men/women to make yourself feel young and vibrant is pretty sad, to me that is.

I'm overweight (not obese yet), balding, not as good looking like when I was in my 20's or early 30s. And you know what, I could care less what others think of me now. I have a great wife, rotten and spoiled kids and we live a comfortable life. That's all that counts for me right now.

I never could understand those married couples who say they just need time apart to recharge and make their marriage better. Why get married in the 1st place if you need time apart to be happier together, that just boggles my mind.

And to those that married social lepers, well you married them for a reason. If you're not happy that they can't meet your needs, leave, why stay. Oh I love him but he's does nothing, just sits at home, plays on the computer, watches sports, doesn't want to go out and do nothing with me, so I need GNO to make myself feel happy, see what's wrong there.

In the end, we all can agree to disagree, there is no wrong or right because I don't live your life and you don't live my life.
Is it possible to be more condescending?
Maybe OP just likes hanging out and dancing with her girlfriends. Maybe she likes getting dressed up once in a while (IIRC she does this once a year?) and listening to club music.
Can't be that simple, I guess, so you have to play amateur psychologist and subscribe all these other negative motivations (ego stroking, seeking verification, etc.).
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:28 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

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Is it possible to be more condescending?
Maybe OP just likes hanging out and dancing with her girlfriends. Maybe she likes getting dressed up once in a while (IIRC she does this once a year?) and listening to club music.
Can't be that simple, I guess, so you have to play amateur psychologist and subscribe all these other negative motivations (ego stroking, seeking verification, etc.).
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Yes, your post to his is way more condescending.



Being unfaithful once a year once a decade or twice a week. Sure one seems worse than the other. Does not mean unfaithful behavior just on occasion a good thing.

I think if you are fine with this activity for your wife that is very fine. But what you are saying is that another husband has no right for concerns.

I do think your view will play well with the ladies who like to go clubbing.

I think it is good to have the you go girl sentiment put out there.

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Old 02-10-2012, 01:36 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Default Re: The girls night out debacle...

I was listening to a radio talk show a while back, and the subject was a rather interesting one. It was about "hunting trips" and what went on at these ones.

No, there wasn't single women, nor was there strip clubs. It was a bunch of friends who got really drunk and....had a circle jerk! They did this on a regular basis, never tell anyone (especially their wives) and they had been doing this for years. Nothing to suspect. There was quite a few callers, not just one or two.

I just thought it was kind of interesting.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:39 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Wait ... like Russian roulette? Really? Do you know how patronizing that is? Do you really believe women are such weak-minded creatures that they just can't help themselves from having sex with any guy who comes along and offers the right game? That cheating, for a woman at least, is random act?
Sheesh. If that's true, why be upset about a cheating wife? After all, these fragile-minded, hormonally driven creatures just can't help themselves.

Someone in this thread said earlier that attraction is not a choice. That's largely true. But what one chooses to do about that attraction IS a choice. Just because a guy throws it out there doesn't mean a woman is going to grab on and go for a ride.
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But you are conveniently ignoring that people drink at these clubs. When people drink, they can become weak minded (and that includes women). I know women in college who went out with the intent of having fun and then slept with a guy. Regretted the choice when they woke up, but certainly did not go out intending to do so. Alcohol lowers inhibitions and impairs judgement. It makes women (and men) to step over boundaries they might not otherwise. To think otherwise is foolish.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:41 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Yes, your post to his is way more condescending.



Being unfaithful once a year once a decade or twice a week. Sure one seems worse than the other. Does not mean unfaithful behavior just on occasion a good thing.

I think if you are fine with this activity for your wife that is very fine. But what you are saying is that another husband has no right for concerns.

I do think your view will play well with the ladies who like to go clubbing.

I think it is good to have the you go girl sentiment put out there.
So you believe that cheating is a foregone conclusion for a woman who goes out to a club one time a year? Yikes. Might as well wrap the womanfolk in burqas (yes, that's hyperbole).

And, actually, if you read my first post in this thread I said there's nothing wrong with his concerns and encouraged her to find a middleground with him.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:43 PM   #84 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=FrenchFry;584259]Man, that PUA bull is so insidious.

You are looking to cheat or you aren't. The amount of alcohol it would take to get me to cheat is enough so that it is rape. Pass out, blackout can't remember drunk in which a man shouldn't be trying to have sex with a woman period.

I don't get that drunk, but even when drinking if a guy tries to isolate me or my friends its a huge red flag and we intervene as nessecary because it's not ok. Thing is we are more than aware of how sleezy men can be around drunk women and in my group we just DON'T LET IT HAPPEN. Not every woman is so easily manipulated by drinking in a club with men. I guess that is definitely where relationship dynamics and communication and boundaries really come into play. Everyone really is different.
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I agree completely!
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:46 PM   #85 (permalink)
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I was listening to a radio talk show a while back, and the subject was a rather interesting one. It was about "hunting trips" and what went on at these ones.

No, there wasn't single women, nor was there strip clubs. It was a bunch of friends who got really drunk and....had a circle jerk! They did this on a regular basis, never tell anyone (especially their wives) and they had been doing this for years. Nothing to suspect. There was quite a few callers, not just one or two.

I just thought it was kind of interesting.
If anyone of our friends suggested this or tried to do this, he won't be coming home from the trip with us......

To Frank, I just gave my opinion and that's it. I really don't care what others do with their lives, they have to live it not me. I'm friends with anyone and everyone if they want to be friends with me, doesn't matter race, religion, sexual preference, etc...

If someone asks me about something I'll tell them what i think and leave it at that. If you don't agree then you don't agree, we're all adults and have our own values and beliefs but I won't hate or be upset at you for what you believe in.

Well unless it deals with child porn, drugs, murder, rape, etc, then we've got a problem.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:01 PM   #86 (permalink)
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FrenchFry, you sound very passionate about this.

All I can say is that some of us know from very painful experience in many areas that things we did not set out with intent to do is exactly what we wound up doing. It's a lesson we should learn regardless of what area of our lives we did this, and we should recognize our humanity when entering into a place of high temptation.

The question was, "why would guys do this?" I think many guys have answered why. I don't think you're going to convince them otherwise, and that may be in part due to experience they are not willing to share. You can disagree whether or not it is right for them to think that way - it's your life. Can you understand why they might think that, though?
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:11 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Wait ... like Russian roulette? Really? Do you know how patronizing that is? Do you really believe women are such weak-minded creatures that they just can't help themselves from having sex with any guy who comes along and offers the right game? That cheating, for a woman at least, is random act?
Sheesh. If that's true, why be upset about a cheating wife? After all, these fragile-minded, hormonally driven creatures just can't help themselves.

Someone in this thread said earlier that attraction is not a choice. That's largely true. But what one chooses to do about that attraction IS a choice. Just because a guy throws it out there doesn't mean a woman is going to grab on and go for a ride.
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Frank, it is clear to both of us on the many threads we both comment on that our viewpoints and experiences are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. It was not all that long ago (less than a year) that I felt so strongly as you do, that if you love someone, and feel that they love you, there is no reason to assume you would ever intentionally do something that knowingly hurts your partner... everyone has weaknesses and makes mistakes, but in a healthy marriage you don't question each other that way because it only fuels paranoia which fuels discontent, which fuels hurtful behaviors, which fuels deception, lying and utter contempt. The thing is, other sources can also get you to that point of contempt, such as not actively protecting your relationship, not defining or enforcing appropriate boundaries, not communicating etc.

I will admit I am totally biased, if I sound patronizing it is because my cheating wife caused me to lose by blind faith in marriages, and trust in the basic goodness in people, and mostly I realize that my hypothesis for life (which was very similar to what yours seems to be) has been disproven. In this I have also found so many other examples of betrayed spouses, men in particular, who have been burned in the same way and we're trying to figure out if the problem was us, our spouse, or just the way we viewed attraction and relationships. We all realize that the old way we saw things (blind trust as you seem to staunchly support) was naive. What we are professing here are some universal truths that we could only learn the hard way, we are not here to vent any disdain for strong women, we are here because we know how much pain it causes when innocent assumptions suddenly become hundreds of teeth on the bonesaw that suddenly tears its way through a loyal spouse, and hopefully someone can be spared that unecessary pain by us contributing here.

You have never been cut with that bonesaw, so please just listen when we say it is the most agonizing thing a person will ever face. My russian roulette analogy was just that, and you missed the point that the only way to win is to not play. Unless winning means getting thrills at the risk of the ones you leave behind at home.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:17 PM   #88 (permalink)
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So you believe that cheating is a foregone conclusion for a woman who goes out to a club one time a year? Yikes. Might as well wrap the womanfolk in burqas (yes, that's hyperbole).

And, actually, if you read my first post in this thread I said there's nothing wrong with his concerns and encouraged her to find a middleground with him.
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Shades of gray my friend. And if you look at my point it is not about cheating. It is about inappropriate behavior and unfaithfulness.

If one woman in fifty puts out for these guys does that make it a foregone conclusion. One in a thousand? How about one in ten?

I bet I could get on a clear straight highway at 20 miles an hour and close my eyes for some period of time. It is not a forgone conclusion that I would kill myself though I might deserve it. Sober I might be able to hanlde this for quite some time as I could tell to some extent if I was getting off onto the shoulder.

So now lets add a little speed ( car speed Frank ), some alcohol and some curves ( not female curves but maybe there is synergy there too ). I can handle it. I am not weak. I would argue the weakness is in doing this stupid thing to begin with however. But I might pull it off. It is not a foregone conclusion. It is about risk versus reward.

It would be a real thrill. So maybe this is ok on a controlled track. I should be free to do this if I want.
For some men their wives would be all for it. Just make sure the insurance is paid up.

You love the whole burqa thing don't you. There is life Frank between the burqa and the drunken GNO with other men. The over whelming majority of people in the world live in between those two extremes.

Hey why not just go to Hedonism VI once a year. It's just once a year. Leave your burqa home and your bathing suit too. Just harmless fun.

I actually give people more credit than this. People are not so weak that they have to decide between these two options. They can make adult choices in the gray areas. Boundaries help. Talking to your spouse helps.

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Old 02-10-2012, 02:40 PM   #89 (permalink)
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LOL yeah I am passionate about this. I actually do get where the guys who have issues with this and I absolutely get why people would be uncomfortable with girls/guys night out. I can't count the times I've been on the recieving end of some heavy flattery from men who for some reason see me as vulnerable, and you are right it absolutely doesn't stop them with a ring on your finger. I don't think I'm particularly unique though when I say I don't care/buy into it, because I do know where my bread is buttered.

I'm passionate about this because I ended relationships because of this fundamental disagreement as to exactly what me and my friends are doing. It was definitely the right thing to do because if a person is going to be hurt no matter what steps I take to ensure a pleasurable cheat free time, we weren't right for each other. My husband gets it, so I married him

I'm also passionate about it because I don't think it's fair to throw all women under the same bus when it comes to going out. I just want to make it clear, hey, some of us really like dancing and don't give a crap about the other men.

For the record, I am a twenty-something, my husband is a thirty something and we don't go out much at all anymore because we have diapers to buy.
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I understand. We have different sets of standards in place. In my long post earlier, I told how I passed on taking certain trips, or how I turned down certain venues with colleagues and why. I'm more proactive because at 47, I have a few places where I've done what I said before and done exactly what I was absolutely sure I would not do. I hurt other people with what I did on at least one of those, too. I'm familiar with my humanity. I don't want to have the same experience when my wife and family can be hurt so badly by my actions, so I will be proactive in not entering into that temptation. To me, it's not a matter of "Does she trust me," so much as it is a matter of "Don't give it the chance to happen."

We have a lot of fun. Two of our kids are out of college and only one is still at home, and we're now financially where we can have a lot more freedom and enjoy a lot more. I love the family I have. I love it that my wife will partner with me to keep me out of temptation. I just do the same thing for her. I don't consider that she's being controlling when she partners with me like this - I appreciate the extra safety net. I'm not sure I would have gotten to this point in my marriage (27 years) if I had not been willing to accept partnership from my wife in areas like this. Fortunately, I can look back now and be happy that I can wonder if I would be here rather than being broken, or worrying about broken kids because I didn't.

That's pretty much how I look at it. I trust her. She trusts me. We partner with each other proactively when we see a potential danger. I appreciate that. She appreciates that. It's not controlling, it's respect.

Cheers.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:54 PM   #90 (permalink)
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LOL yeah I am passionate about this. I actually do get where the guys who have issues with this and I absolutely get why people would be uncomfortable with girls/guys night out. I can't count the times I've been on the recieving end of some heavy flattery from men who for some reason see me as vulnerable, and you are right it absolutely doesn't stop them with a ring on your finger. I don't think I'm particularly unique though when I say I don't care/buy into it, because I do know where my bread is buttered.

I'm passionate about this because I ended relationships because of this fundamental disagreement as to exactly what me and my friends are doing. It was definitely the right thing to do because if a person is going to be hurt no matter what steps I take to ensure a pleasurable cheat free time, we weren't right for each other. My husband gets it, so I married him

I'm also passionate about it because I don't think it's fair to throw all women under the same bus when it comes to going out. I just want to make it clear, hey, some of us really like dancing and don't give a crap about the other men.

For the record, I am a twenty-something, my husband is a thirty something and we don't go out much at all anymore because we have diapers to buy.
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Good stuff FrenchFry. We need to follow our personal priorities and so on for sure.

It seems your hubby went into this with eyes wide open ( not eyes wide shut which is an interesting movie for its own reasons ). Coolness.

Part of why I chose my wife is that she was not into this lifestyle. I was ready for a change myself. If at some point out of the blue she wanted to start doing this I would have special concern if for nothing else than the big change.

So in your opinion, if a woman were to make such a change after 16 years of marriage and started doing all nighters in the manner described by the OP might she be any different than yourself? I know there would be indiviudal differences but all else equal might she be less savvy? Serious question.

Last edited by Entropy3000; 02-10-2012 at 02:58 PM.
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