Are you kidding me? Norajane has basically lumped all men in one group and then further simplifies it further by suggesting us simple men only care about sex. My wife would not mind a smack on the ass as long as not hard and especially with a nice smile. But I am done with that until she wakes up and realizes I need to be wanted too. I remember what it is like to be wanted and I miss it. I am human. Posted via Mobile Device
This, yes. Intimacy is a combination of emotional, intellectual and physical intimacy. For some, there is also a shared spiritual intimacy.
If we lose the emotional and intellectual connection, sex becomes only about relieving a physical need (mechanical, physical only). And then when a man only notices the bad sex life and focus on having sex sex sex, a woman can become resentful because it seems that's the only kind of intimacy her man "cares" about...that's the kind he wants to "fix".
How many threads are started with "my wife won't have sex with me"? How many are started by men with "my wife and I have drifted apart and are not connecting on an emotional level" or "we don't seem to have much to talk about anymore" or "we don't seem to share excitement about our future together?" or "we have not learned how to argue productively and are constantly bickering and nagging each other"?
That speaks volumes to me - it says men only see a problem if they aren't having sex as often as they want to. Everything else can go to hell in the relationship, but dammit, sex is the only thing they care enough to put effort into fixing it.
I don't feel long-term physical passion for a man unless he and I are in sync emotionally and intellectually, too. If that's broken, he can call me LD or whatever, but the truth is, I'm not into him in other ways and am not connecting with him in other ways LONG BEFORE I lose interest in having sex with him. He just never noticed or listened to me saying so before - not until the sex dried up. THEN, we have a "problem", by his definition.
Been looking around on here lately and it appears my wife and I are at a crossroads yet again. We love each other and have two small children. Yet it alway seems we have a conflict either a big one or something so small I do not know what it is. My wife is always wanting to "fix" our problem for good which she sees as communication.
I don't think it is communication at all she just does not like some of my answers. Seriously when we have a serious talk she almost starts to cross examine my responses and almost get me to answer a certain way. The big problem we have is really just the classic one: I want and need more sex. She wants more communication and closeness. But here is the kicker I can give her all the closeness and communication to the moon and back but yet the sex life stays as a total back burner for her.
We tried marriage counseling but in the end it seemed to make things worse. It was like she tested me in between each session. Now before anyone says well I need to help her more around the house etc. trust me I more than pull my share. On the flip side if you say I need to Man-up etc. I have tried that too. Once in counseling she even admitted that she does not know what gets her in the mood I even joked it is like Green Eggs and Ham. We all had a laugh and she agreed.
Lately I have just kind of given up cause tired of being the one that in charge of getting her in the mood only to be shot down 90% of the time. She says she is still in love with me and finds me attractive but never ever says anything sexy to me. Never really compliments me much at -- I did not even notice this for like the first 10 years cause not that big of deal to me but now it makes me resentful to tell her how beautiful she is etc. when I never hear anything back. So anyway we are in a three week no sex slump and I have not said a word about sex nor flirted or anything. After kids go to bed she is happy to look at FB, Pinterest or watch TV. Feel like I have another sister.
Not sure what I should do - she thinks we need to go back to counseling and work on communicating more as if she could just change me into the perfect clone of what she wants then life would be fine. For now I am just going to be that clone I guess but will not cannot show her any real husband type affection cause then I feel used.
Any ideas?
Hi veryconfused ~
I think you are asking the wrong ladies the question. By that I mean, none of us can tell you what it is that your wife really wants - only she can. I can tell you what I want, but that's totally irrelevant to you because not all women are the same.
And, you have already been given the answer by your wife, but it may not be the one you wanted to hear or to work at. And like all things that are worthwhile in life, it often requires a lot of work and effort to get where we would like to be.
I think that is what is so hard for so many. We want things to be easy and tidy. We want our spouse to feel just like us and not have to work through the issues. If you've (both of you) let the marriage just skate along without trying to attend to it and each other, it becomes overcome with ferocious weeds choking out your bountiful harvest.
How willing are you to work at your marriage, veryconfused? From your responses I cannot tell - you come asking for advice but admit that you aren't willing to accommodate your wife with affection.
If you've truly given up, then you need to go talk to your wife and be very honest with her and let her know.
Otherwise, you need to "gird your loins and screw your courage to the sticking point" - bite the bullet and make a last ditch effort to work through your issues. And that may mean returning to MC with a different spirit and attitude, that may mean being willing to forgive and let go of your resentments, it may mean that you need to work more consistently at not only communicating with your wife by listening to her, but to also communicate with your wife about what is important to YOU.
Communication is a two-way street...you can learn to speak her language and let her know what is important to you. If you really want to.
I agree with your comments. But the reason I came here was because it seems like my wife and I have gone round and round with this. And MC was really not helpful at all. Oh we worked on her issues a lot -- but we just could not improve in this area. And while in counseling it felt like I was constantly on the 2nd date and being tested all the time. And she was flat out refusing to be affectionate at all. It was so very frustrating and strange.
The MC said this is a classic chicken and egg thing for us who knows what came first but we would work on her issues etc. but somehow this rooster never got to the hen. Oh well thanks to you all. Even NoraJane and her measly two cents
I agree with your comments. But the reason I came here was because it seems like my wife and I have gone round and round with this. And MC was really not helpful at all. Oh we worked on her issues a lot -- but we just could not improve in this area. And while in counseling it felt like I was constantly on the 2nd date and being tested all the time. And she was flat out refusing to be affectionate at all. It was so very frustrating and strange.
The MC said this is a classic chicken and egg thing for us who knows what came first but we would work on her issues etc. but somehow this rooster never got to the hen. Oh well thanks to you all. Even NoraJane and her measly two cents
So, can you give us more of your history and story?
Was she really sexual at one point, like in the beginning when the hormones are a-swinging, and then it deterioriated?
What is her general demeanour llike with you overall? Is she happy/cheerful/grumpy/sneezy/dopey? ( just seeing if you're awake!)
Does she have any history of abuse? What was her previous sexual experience like?
What kind of a household did she grow up in?
The thing with the chicken and egg that you mention (and I think the chicken came first btw ) is that someone has to be willing to break the stalemate.
Now, with that said, your wife must also be willing to reciprocate to work at things as well. You BOTH have to be willing to give. If she is not, then yes - you may have to be willing to draw the line in the sand, and you'll have to think about what that line really is for you and how far you are willing to go.
You ever considered IC for yourself? I just think it's hard on people when they feel like they are constantly rejected by their spouse - takes a blow to their self-esteem. Might be beneficial to work with someone that you could vent freely to who could help you work through those kinds of feelings and you might be able to see a very clear path ahead of things that you need to do.
Well we are in late 30s I am a few years older. Been married for almost 14 years. We had ok sex before marriage but it was not a concern because I thought once we had our own place it would get better. Guess it did slightly but then declined. She tells me she needs to feel more connected to what sex but also admits that does not ways work either. I see how important that is to her and worked in it but then nothing this was during MC a few years ago. It was so odd it was like we were stuck on a date and she was just not feeling into it I guess. Man that just made me try harder and MC finally said well what is he supposed to do and then used chicken egg metaphor. Lately when we talked she said that she is just not the flirtatious type but that If she is in the mood she will respond to me. That has led to too much rejection. But when we do have sex it is great we really have fun. I think in her mind that is what she wants. Me always in a good mood and engaged with her. And then maybe we will have more sex. But it has never worked out that way. Here are a list of normal husband type things I do but she has never ever done. A flirtatious text, flowers for no reason and often, little presents, big presents, telling her she is beautiful etc. She has never ever given me a compliment about my appearance unless prodded. I did not notice that for the first ten years cause I don't care about that too much until I reflected that she never ever does it. Posted via Mobile Device
"She was perfectly happy and not thinking anything was wrong with me or our relationship. Her problem was that she did not understand sex as an emotional connection - it is just sex, which is exhausting. She took a long time and 3rd party verification (she read sex starved marriage, she wouldn't take my word for it because I was just trying to get sex). She finally understands there is an emotional aspect. She is "trying" to be better"
This hit the nail right on the head as far as I'm concerned in my relationship. I also want to echo Veryconfusedhusband's comment about wanting to be wanted.
Norajanes comments are stilted from a women's point of view (as I know mine are from a man's point of view) but nonetheless, they do come off a bit biased.
I have done many of the things here others suggest with no more permanent solution. I've talked and even said I desired to be with her at an increased level and she also told me that (as a number of ladies here have said) she needs to feel connected to me to do that. I said fine, what do you need me to do to make you feel we are more connected? I did what she told me and she agreed I was doing them and ...back to the norm!
I often get mixed signals from her too. Case in point, on Valentines day (we had gone out and celebrated the weekend before at a nice resturant) she presented me with an envelope with the words "For your eyes only" on it. Inside was a very sexy pair of undies! Needless to say, I was thrilled. So, you may ask what happened that night? Nothing. And nothing for the next ten nights (and nothing happened over the weekend we went out for dinner either)
This type of event isn't completely uncommon. She's thrown comments at me like "You're going get lucky tonight because you did X for me this week" and then....Nothing. Can you see how this all adds up over 26+ years?
Well Veryconfused has known from the beginning that his wife wasn't very sexual, it's not like she was wanting to do it all the time then stopped all of a sudden, so basically she is being who she's always been, but it's just now bothering him.
Maybe it's a matter of power and control. Women, or perhaps American women are more or less trained from birth to hold all the power in a relationship and this is largely the case until they're 25 or so when the power starts to swing in the other direction. It's the dark side of the fairy tale myth - that everything will always be wonderful with Prince Charming....because Cinderella will keep his balls in a jar on the mantle and sex is more of an abstraction. But who wants to give that power up? Who wants to get demoted? So the wife decides the only way she can regain her place, maintain her power is in a negative way. Say "NO". Better to be an unloved tyrant with all the power and none of the accountability than it is to be a peer, or worse, second fiddle to a mere man.
All the chatter about feelings and communication and the 10 million ineffable things we sort of are programmed to accept is the foundation of women's sexuality are a strategic negotiation around that urge to keep the power and keep the status while giving up as little as possible in exchange while at the same time having as little actual responsibility and accountability for any outcome. So you have a few options. You can stall for time, which won't work because your mate is already doing that. You can barter in bad faith and hope for the best. Or you can completely give in because as we intuit, the last thing a control freak wants is actual control. They want power w.o. any of the attendant responsibilities. So if you dump it 100% back in their lap they don't know what to do with it.
Maybe it's a matter of power and control. Women, or perhaps American women are more or less trained from birth to hold all the power in a relationship and this is largely the case until they're 25 or so when the power starts to swing in the other direction. It's the dark side of the fairy tale myth - that everything will always be wonderful with Prince Charming....because Cinderella will keep his balls in a jar on the mantle and sex is more of an abstraction. But who wants to give that power up? Who wants to get demoted? So the wife decides the only way she can regain her place, maintain her power is in a negative way. Say "NO". Better to be an unloved tyrant with all the power and none of the accountability than it is to be a peer, or worse, second fiddle to a mere man.
All the chatter about feelings and communication and the 10 million ineffable things we sort of are programmed to accept is the foundation of women's sexuality are a strategic negotiation around that urge to keep the power and keep the status while giving up as little as possible in exchange while at the same time having as little actual responsibility and accountability for any outcome. So you have a few options. You can stall for time, which won't work because your mate is already doing that. You can barter in bad faith and hope for the best. Or you can completely give in because as we intuit, the last thing a control freak wants is actual control. They want power w.o. any of the attendant responsibilities. So if you dump it 100% back in their lap they don't know what to do with it.
That's not women bashing at all....of course I'm sure the men on this thread will find this to be a very acceptable answer....
I didn't say all women are this or that. I'm pointing out that if your individual relationship is in fact dysfunctional then this might be one reason why. There's usually some reason why a woman (or a man) is deeply, pathologically withholding that has little or nothing at all to do with their endless interior monologues we assume have something to do with self doubt. Maybe it's not self doubt, maybe it's greed or fear or something far darker than the quick Dr. Phil view of it. After all, being a martyr is what we call having a martyr complex. It's a series of behaviors where the person consciously acts against their own interest and against the interest of their relationship for some vague gain that's hard to explain. So how do you explain it?
I didn't say all women are this or that. I'm pointing out that if your individual relationship is in fact dysfunctional then this might be one reason why. There's usually some reason why a woman (or a man) is deeply, pathologically withholding that has little or nothing at all to do with their endless interior monologues we assume have something to do with self doubt. Maybe it's not self doubt, maybe it's greed or fear or something far darker than the quick Dr. Phil view of it. After all, being a martyr is what we call having a martyr complex. It's a series of behaviors where the person consciously acts against their own interest and against the interest of their relationship for some vague gain that's hard to explain. So how do you explain it?
Well considering she was never a very sexual person, in OP's description, I would say that's just who she is.....some people are raring to go all the time, some a few times a week and some hardly ever, and there's no reason for it except that's who they are, that's their personal drive...I am thinking that there is no big reason here behind it except that...
And I just pointed yours out because it sounded like the flip side of norajane's comment and the guys jumped on her for hers....sorry nothing personal
some of it i do agree with, but isnt there man bashing in your post? i mean really, cant you resist
Where do I man bash??? LOL ***Oh yeah in the beginning lol, the only reason that I posted that comment about Runs like Dogs comment is because the OP and another dude jumped all over norajane for her comment and I really didn't think hers was horrible or anything, just an opinion, which is what all this is right?
39Likes
Re: Ladies what do you really want? 
just seeing if you're awake!)
