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Old 03-28-2012, 12:08 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: An open request from one of the men

MEM. I think what may be missing in this scenario is the bonding created through good sex with a wife. It’s a massive bonding and I’m guessing it’s the most emotionally intimate bonding that goes on between husband and wife.

I know I keep on about my wife never saying no and the length of time we were together but I don’t do so out of bragging. Rather to say, a bit like you “Yes it is possible and yes us men do need it and yes it is emotional!”.

In my case after such a long time together I can’t even begin to imagine having sex with another woman. It seems neither my mind or my heart wants to go there. And I think this is for a few reasons, one of them being that I’d betray the memory of my wife. How crazy and irrational is that! Another is I just can’t or don’t want to believe that it would ever be as good as with my wife and as such I’d be disappointed and therefore let the new woman down somehow.

Are these things rational. I don’t know and neither do I care if they are or not. But they are for me emotional. Very emotional.

And I think a heck of a lot of that has come about because of the very powerful and very intimate bond we built between us with sex over our decades together.

Some people just can’t understand this. Even my elder son reckons I’m not letting go and he’s maybe right. But I at least don’t/can’t just let go. It is not that easy and those friends of mine that know that tell me I’m doing exceptionally well. These things are just so subjective via the emotions.


We bond with others through shared experiences, through working on projects as a team and through working as a team through adversity. And in teams in sports like soccer, football etc. etc.

But I’m not aware of a bond greater than that created through loving sex with a man’s wife. I’m just not aware of a greater bond. I think it does exist for some women, in that their bond with their children can be greater than their bond with their husband.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:21 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I wonder what emotions a man feels about sex with his wife? For me there was the “looking forward to it” phase. I was always full of optimism because my wife never said no. So I could plan say a walk amongst the dunes by the beach or even the use of a beach hut with the full expectation that we’d have very enjoyable sex. Or maybe a walk in the woods, against a tree or under a tree in a cornfield. Or a cycle across the moors thinking about sex with her in the Inn with the four poster bed when away for a weekend.

All that emotional optimism and expectation was mine for a very long time. It is HIGHLY motivational and full of feel good factors just thinking about and planning sex. It is one of the reasons I did so much for my wife. That and amongst other things her very fine cooking.

These things aren’t rational in the sense that it’s far more emotional than rational. It is subjective. Not objective. But I don’t think it is irrational. Maybe it is to some. But when you think about it and rationalise it you can just see how even thinking about sex is emotional. But then again I am a romantic.

And then there’s the act itself. Absolutely full of those feel good endorphins, desire and passion. Sometimes my mind used to swim in them, such were the emotions I felt when making love with my wife. Apart from alcohol and nicotine I’ve never taken any other drugs in my life. I got all the highs I ever needed or wanted from my wife.


I honestly don’t know what I would have done, how I would have behaved if my wife had withheld sex from me. Even after a big argument she still never denied me. It’s how we used to make up. In fact thinking about it, I withheld whereas my wife didn’t. On a few occasions I withheld by not initiating but could never past more than five or six days.
This describes perfectly what sex aught to be like between two people who love and care about each other.

You and your wife were compatible and had similar attitudes towards sex. She did not do what many women do and that is to allow day to day activities interfere with making love to the person most important to them.

I look at what it got her, a happy emotionally connected husband.

Your description should be a "must read". You have posted before about this. There are so many heart rending post from men who are in low/no sex marriages but very few clear and emotionally ladened description of those who are not.

It would be nice if you could start a thread describing what it is like to have a relationship like this.

Many of your descriptions are buried in threads of others and some readers may miss it.

I like to read it because it touches my heart to hear the male view of the good side of sex in marriage.

It confirms what I know intellectually but have a hard time really understanding. But that's me, not anyone else.

Thanks for this.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:29 PM   #48 (permalink)
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'Bond' is a very appropriate word. And you summed it up quite well. Especially when it comes to loving your spouse ... and making love with them. I remember that feeling. It is not something easily replaced ... even if you are having sex with someone else.

My wife without question would state that the bond she feels for her children will ALWAYS outweigh the bond she would feel with any partner.

She was adopted. Our son and daughter are the only blood relatives she has in the world. Caught me off guard when she put it that way several years ago.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:37 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: An open request from one of the men

Interesting thread for sure. I personally don't feel the sex/emotional connection but after reading through this thread I can understand how others connect the two.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: An open request from one of the men

It's possible that the emotional connection from sex that AFEH speaks of is more due to the nature of one's own personal love language than just being a guy?

If your primary love language is physical touch, then by all means it is your primary means of fulfillment in your relationship despite whether you're a male or female.

The need for sex could be a primitive male drive type of need, but having a physical touch love language could in fact build an additional layer of depth for fulfillment-needs in an individual in order to bond with their mate to the fullest.

In Jeff74's case, I'm willing to bet physical touch is NOT his primary love language, and therefore sex isn't as crucial to him in order to bond emotionally with a mate.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Emotionally 'clueless' guys don't seek out marriage forums.
Ah, but they do! They are the ones whose wives are having affairs or whose wives have walked away.

I truly understand that some marital problems are primarily caused by one person, a partner with borderline personality or some other mental health issue. But in most cases, a happily married spouse--or even just one at the early stages of unhappiness--does not jump into an affair. A man who thinks "everything is fine" because he got his wife to get off his back about her needs and wants is completely clueless, too.

Anyway, I agree completely with the idea that many men need sex to feel emotionally connected. What I see as lacking in that statement is an understanding of what it takes to get most women to the point that they will actually refuse--repeatedly--to have sex with their husbands, and how dangerous it is to suggest that they just try. I have known more than a few women who got to the point where they wanted to puke if their husband tried to touch them--but these women were committed to marriage and never thought they could end up leaving. But they did--some cheated first, some didn't. Same story in the background, however, which is why I don't believe the idea that cheaters "rewrite" their history. Most female cheaters have already told close friends/family about the marital problems.

It's a conundrum, that's for sure.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:05 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Interesting thread for sure. I personally don't feel the sex/emotional connection but after reading through this thread I can understand how others connect the two.
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Some people are simply more emotional than others. That’s all it is. For me some others have what’s described as “low or flat affect” in that for some reason or other events that’d have a deep emotional affect on me simply don’t affect them. Carl Jung talks about this in his personality types. There are those that rely more on how they think about things and there are those that rely more on they feel about things. I’m one of the latter while you’re probably one of the former. That feeling thing is intuition linked to our emotions.

My wife is also a thinker, in the main. She saw me at times as quite emotional whereas I saw her at times as quite cold. But I know since our separation she has been feeling exceptionally strong emotions, breaking down and crying for example while out shopping when it really hits her. It’s at times like these when we truly understand the power of our emotions. Sometimes they just take us over and it takes some time to regain control, composure. But pity that it is a person has to suffer a very serious loss before they know these things. I don’t think any of us is truly immune, except for maybe psychopaths.


But everyone reading this thread will be either a thinker or feeler! And those that are thinkers will just not get it no matter how it’s put to them. You are doing very well though in that you can see how things can be for other people. Even though you don’t feel these things yourself!
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:13 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Anyway, I agree completely with the idea that many men need sex to feel emotionally connected. What I see as lacking in that statement is an understanding of what it takes to get most women to the point that they will actually refuse--repeatedly--to have sex with their husbands, and how dangerous it is to suggest that they just try. I have known more than a few women who got to the point where they wanted to puke if their husband tried to touch them--but these women were committed to marriage and never thought they could end up leaving. But they did--some cheated first, some didn't. Same story in the background, however, which is why I don't believe the idea that cheaters "rewrite" their history. Most female cheaters have already told close friends/family about the marital problems.
If many of the posters here are to be believed, they in fact asked their wife about these problems with no real answer. Too often, particularly in the beginning, the wife does not know or can not effectively communicate what is wrong. So the downward spiral starts, with one spouse asking, the other not giving a real answer but not being quite so interested in dealing, thereby causing the asking spouse to pull back.

I know that personally, my wife has never been able to really articulate why her attraction for me decreased. I took steps to get back closer to where I was when we dated, and things are much better. But five years ago, when I raised it, the best she could give me was that she just wasn't that interested. If I let it, I could still get very angry over what felt like a vague brush-off answer to what I considered an important question. I hope that by understanding the importance of this issue, the LD spouse can focus on working on the issue.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:21 PM   #54 (permalink)
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If many of the posters here are to be believed, they in fact asked their wife about these problems with no real answer. Too often, particularly in the beginning, the wife does not know or can not effectively communicate what is wrong. So the downward spiral starts, with one spouse asking, the other not giving a real answer but not being quite so interested in dealing, thereby causing the asking spouse to pull back.


I also think that things like getting caught up in work for an extended time, not resuming the desire for a connection after the birth of a child after an extended time, or an overcommitment to family and/or children send a message to men that perhaps the women do not understand they are sending.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:25 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Ah, but they do! They are the ones whose wives are having affairs or whose wives have walked away.

I truly understand that some marital problems are primarily caused by one person, a partner with borderline personality or some other mental health issue. But in most cases, a happily married spouse--or even just one at the early stages of unhappiness--does not jump into an affair. A man who thinks "everything is fine" because he got his wife to get off his back about her needs and wants is completely clueless, too.

Anyway, I agree completely with the idea that many men need sex to feel emotionally connected. What I see as lacking in that statement is an understanding of what it takes to get most women to the point that they will actually refuse--repeatedly--to have sex with their husbands, and how dangerous it is to suggest that they just try. I have known more than a few women who got to the point where they wanted to puke if their husband tried to touch them--but these women were committed to marriage and never thought they could end up leaving. But they did--some cheated first, some didn't. Same story in the background, however, which is why I don't believe the idea that cheaters "rewrite" their history. Most female cheaters have already told close friends/family about the marital problems.

It's a conundrum, that's for sure.
I think a lot of women rely waaaay too much on their behaviour over time and body language to communicate with their husbands. These women actually believe that their husbands know what they are saying, talking about, with their body language and behaviour! Can you believe that?


And not only that, some women put such a massive reliance on their husband’s behaviour and body language that they never ever feel the need to check with their husbands as to whether they are correct or incorrect in their interpretation. Can you believe that!


But we don’t!!! We do not understand your body language and we’re far more likely to make an incorrect interpretation than we ever are to make a correct one. And in that it is my belief that men are “Behaviour and body language stupid”!!! We’re complete numskulls relative to women in as far as communicating without spoken words is concerned.

Whereas women are the absolute experts at understanding and communicating without a word ever needing to be actually spoken. Where women go wrong, in my mind at least, is in thinking that men are the same as they are in how we communicate.



It is a “great communication divide” between male and female, men and women. And hence a woman can go for years “communicating” to her husband that she no longer loves him never once using the words “I no longer love you”. And then they wonder why their husband’s don’t up their game, get reconnected and the marriage eventually ends. To me that’s some sort of insanity.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:37 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Ah, but they do! They are the ones whose wives are having affairs or whose wives have walked away.

I truly understand that some marital problems are primarily caused by one person, a partner with borderline personality or some other mental health issue. But in most cases, a happily married spouse--or even just one at the early stages of unhappiness--does not jump into an affair. A man who thinks "everything is fine" because he got his wife to get off his back about her needs and wants is completely clueless, too.

Anyway, I agree completely with the idea that many men need sex to feel emotionally connected. What I see as lacking in that statement is an understanding of what it takes to get most women to the point that they will actually refuse--repeatedly--to have sex with their husbands, and how dangerous it is to suggest that they just try. I have known more than a few women who got to the point where they wanted to puke if their husband tried to touch them--but these women were committed to marriage and never thought they could end up leaving. But they did--some cheated first, some didn't. Same story in the background, however, which is why I don't believe the idea that cheaters "rewrite" their history. Most female cheaters have already told close friends/family about the marital problems.

It's a conundrum, that's for sure.
Not trying to be argumentative, but your analysis sounds perilously close to it's inherently 'his' fault if a man's wife wants to puke at the thought of his touching her. And further, you are outlining exactly the circumstances that MEM is requesting that people pause and reconsider. You are presuming that your average guy, in your average sexless marriage, just doesn't 'get it', isn't listening, and isn't giving his wife what she needs, she is making perfectly clear what it is she does need ... and her husband is just a knuckle-head.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but that's how the second part of your response came across.

And I gotta tell ya' ... that certainly wasn't my circumstance, and I don't know of many where it was.

I'm not claiming that one is more prevalent or valid than the other. They both suck. It is a failure on both parties part, and requires both parties taking responsibility ... I think THAT is where the issue lies for most.

It's much too common to get caught up in right-fighting instead of recognizing, acknowledging, and reconciling.

And the biggest thing that stood out to me as overlooked in MEM's post ... it was gender neutral. It was about the refusing spouses lack of being open to their partner ... regardless of gender.
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Last edited by Deejo; 03-28-2012 at 01:57 PM. Reason: genderizing
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:54 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Many men when they are young over use the "Love" word.

It's sometimes used to get in a ladies pants.

I really question the men that say they have a deep love for their
wife, if they don't feel this bond.

Do they really know what a deep love for one woman is?
I was sat with married friends the other week. I’ve got to the point where I really try not to talk about my marriage to people, but for one reason or another it came up. My female friend said something like “You should be over it by now, just put it behind you and move on”. Her husband replied with something like “He’s been with his wife for longer than you’ve been born! It will take him time”.

One understood my situation the other didn’t. And for those that tell me I should be over it by now it does make me wonder what “bond” they feel with their partner. But then again I never once thought that breaking that bond would be so emotionally painful.

There is a name for it, Attachment Trauma. When the bond is broken we literally feel traumatised and our emotions very quickly take us over, control us. For some like me it takes a long time to sort it all out and regain some form of control. But it is a deep and profound learning experience.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:14 PM   #58 (permalink)
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If many of the posters here are to be believed, they in fact asked their wife about these problems with no real answer. Too often, particularly in the beginning, the wife does not know or can not effectively communicate what is wrong. So the downward spiral starts, with one spouse asking, the other not giving a real answer but not being quite so interested in dealing, thereby causing the asking spouse to pull back.

I know that personally, my wife has never been able to really articulate why her attraction for me decreased. I took steps to get back closer to where I was when we dated, and things are much better. But five years ago, when I raised it, the best she could give me was that she just wasn't that interested. If I let it, I could still get very angry over what felt like a vague brush-off answer to what I considered an important question. I hope that by understanding the importance of this issue, the LD spouse can focus on working on the issue.
i have asked my wife on numerous occasions, during very serious discussions, what it is I can do to improve for her. what it is she needs from me to make things better. i was looking right into her eyes, with every shred of sincerity, and i get...................."i dont know"

and you know what, i believe her, she doesnt know. not much i can do about that. at least i feel like i have tried in ernest to fix us.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #59 (permalink)
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That drive in men for sex....sex....sex, sometimes I think that men love in different stages.
Many don't found that one where she is the "ONE". Where the deep love for that one
woman comes from. Maybe it's that "ONE" woman where that tight bond is developed.
You never feel it, until it happens, you truly find her.

It's a much deeper love than your "First Love".
i found her, i committed to her, i provide for her and i want to be intimate with her and only her.

she loves me, she provides for me (non-sexual) and she wants to be intimate with me........about 1-2 times a month
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:21 PM   #60 (permalink)
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i have asked my wife on numerous occasions, during very serious discussions, what it is I can do to improve for her. what it is she needs from me to make things better. i was looking right into her eyes, with every shred of sincerity, and i get...................."i dont know"

and you know what, i believe her, she doesnt know. not much i can do about that. at least i feel like i have tried in ernest to fix us.
Okie:

Do you think that a counselor could drag the reason out of her? I hate to see a faithful, loving man miss out on a passionate marriage.
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