OK, now that I've realized (for the final time) that he will never change, he is an emotional abuser/neglecter (of me, not really the kids), I've asked him to move out. But he is still the father of my children and although I don't ever want to see him again, I have to.
Since then, he has been trying to smile (actually making eye contact) and be charming (OMG he is charming when he wants to be, sigh...), but I can't smile back. He has never been a friend to me. In fact, he has been the enemy that i tried to "forgive" and be patient with, even though, because of him, I lost my own family and a dear friend through his influence on them. He has been avoiding and resentful for most of our marriage. And except for my children, I am alone now.
How can I smile back? How should I treat this man who has proven himself an enemy to my happiness? He has been good to the kids, but because of their young age, they don't need much but wrestling and tickling. When they do, will they be hurt too? I still love him like a fool, but can't accept how he treats me anymore. So, how should I treat him? How should I feel? How can I protect my babies? How can I protect myself without putting the kids in the middle?
Seeing your husband as the enemy does you no good at all. Treat him with respect even if you are upset with him. He’s the father of your children. He does not have to be an enemy for you to be independent, whether if you divorce or stay married.
The best thing you can do is to work on yourself. If you can go to an IC and become the best person you can be.
Even though you want him to leave the family home, he does not have to. He is legally as entitled to live there as you are. If he’s smart he will not leave as he is the father of the children the two of you have together.
If you want a divorce, then you can move out if you wish. You can only move your children out of the family home if he agrees to this or the court orders it.
I’m not ‘choosing’ his side, I’m telling you what the law allows for.
Do you have a job outside the home?
He is not the sort who will fight for the kids or to live in this home. He'll go. And he's not a monster, he'll continue to support us. But he is an excellent martyr. He'll go and then try to make me feel guilty, because will always feel justified in how he's treated me. I don't want to see him that way, but I do. I want to be respectful, but I'm at the point where I can't ignore his betrayals and disrespect any longer. And I certainly can't act like everything's fine, and smile and laugh either, so how do I respond when he tries to engage me in jovial conversation? Because I want to scream, "How could you ruin our life and destroy my happiness??? Should there be some sort of cooling off period? Some sort of no-contact period so that the kids don't end up getting in the middle and mom doesn't end up a total basket case? What is the next step?
EleGirl, I just wanted to say thanks for the honesty. I don't like it, but I need it. Keep on with it.
I also realized that this thread is in the wrong section. I'm going to end it in this forum and put it in the "Going Through Separation or Divorce" section. I'm still new to this forum, so I apologize for any forum faux pas. Thanks everyone.
I'd just try to talk to him as little as possible. Eventually you will heal and it will be easier. Is there a somewhat neutral person who would help with kid exchanges? A friend would drop the child off with family members, her ex would pick the child up from them after she had left, same thing when he was returning the child. So she and her ex did not have to see each other at all. I think they did it that way for 6 months or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl
You can only move your children out of the family home if he agrees to this or the court orders it.
This is not true. Parents can take their kids anywhere that they want to (within the US, permission from both parents is needed to cross the international border) unless there is a court order already in place restricting that. Even then, they usually only have to keep the kids in the state.
He is not the sort who will fight for the kids or to live in this home. He'll go. And he's not a monster, he'll continue to support us. But he is an excellent martyr. He'll go and then try to make me feel guilty, because will always feel justified in how he's treated me. I don't want to see him that way, but I do. I want to be respectful, but I'm at the point where I can't ignore his betrayals and disrespect any longer. And I certainly can't act like everything's fine, and smile and laugh either, so how do I respond when he tries to engage me in jovial conversation? Because I want to scream, "How could you ruin our life and destroy my happiness??? Should there be some sort of cooling off period? Some sort of no-contact period so that the kids don't end up getting in the middle and mom doesn't end up a total basket case? What is the next step?
How should you act when he tries to be jovial? You don’t have to ignore his disrespect and betrayals. Have a talk with him or write him a letter telling him that are not in a place right now where you can be jovial. You cannot joke with him or pretend that everything is light hearted. So you would appreciate it if he is just respectful to you.. says hi, bye and talks to you about the children when needed. Otherwise you have little to say to him.
And you can tell him exactly this… "How could you ruin our life and destroy my happiness???” and that y9ou are not over it. It will take you a long time; probably years. So don’t expect a lot of humor or friendship out of you.
It might be hard to say it all calmly so that’s why I think writing it and letting him read it makes a lot of sense. Once you tell him very clearly / calmly where you stand treat him according to the 180 (see the link in my signature block below). It’s a pretty good guideline.
He can only “make” you feel guilty if you allow yourself to go there. We as humans have an ability, self-awareness, at a level that animals do not have. We have the ability to stop and think about the reaction we have to stimuli. That first, gut reaction is out of our control.. it just is. But what we do with it, how we respond after that we own. I’m talking from experience here. this is something that I had to learn. It took some time to dawn on me. But now that I know this in my very bones, few things really get to me. Learn to stop and think about those gut reactions you have. And just don’t allow yourself to be consumed about them.
Come up with an image. You know how monkey act when they are all upset… the bang their chests, jump up and down, make funny grunting noises… all in trying to be intimidating. When I left my abusive ex I worked on imagining that silly monkey trying so hard to intimidate me. Well with that image in my head it was pretty easy to not take his intimidation easily. I either ignored his ranting or tried not to laugh about that posturing monkey image, or I’d say “Ah, so you are having a bad day. Hope it gets better.” And that was the end of it.
Over time, when he saw that his posturing, anger, etc were not working on me he stopped.
Hmmm. I don't have that kind of support around me. My three bff's, one is super busy w/work, one has major back probs, and one lives too far away, can't really help. And we have no family around here. I have to see him or risk leaving my kids alone (ages 11 and under).
Do you know what I want? I want to confront him, even though it never did any good. I want to tell him off and make him understand (though he certainly won't) that he has no business trying to be so nice, the SOB. Is that wrong? Somebody tell me I have a right to feel like this! Please!
I'd just try to talk to him as little as possible. Eventually you will heal and it will be easier. Is there a somewhat neutral person who would help with kid exchanges? A friend would drop the child off with family members, her ex would pick the child up from them after she had left, same thing when he was returning the child. So she and her ex did not have to see each other at all. I think they did it that way for 6 months or so.
This is not true. Parents can take their kids anywhere that they want to (within the US, permission from both parents is needed to cross the international border) unless there is a court order already in place restricting that. Even then, they usually only have to keep the kids in the state.
If one parent move their child(ren) out of the family home, the other parent can get an emergency court order to have the children returned to the family home. One parent cannot unilaterally decide to move their children away from the other parent and the family home. Sure it happens. That is because the parent left behind does not know their rights and does not get a court order ASAP to have the chidlren returned.
Hmmm. I don't have that kind of support around me. My three bff's, one is super busy w/work, one has major back probs, and one lives too far away, can't really help. And we have no family around here. I have to see him or risk leaving my kids alone (ages 11 and under).
Do you know what I want? I want to confront him, even though it never did any good. I want to tell him off and make him understand (though he certainly won't) that he has no business trying to be so nice, the SOB. Is that wrong? Somebody tell me I have a right to feel like this! Please!
Of course you have the right to feel that way.
When you say he has no right to be so nice.. what do you want him to do? Treat you in a mean, angry manner. He is treating you 'nice' or light hearted because he's at a loss on how he should act. Just ignore his behavior, do your thing and go on your way.
If one parent move their child(ren) out of the family home, the other parent can get an emergency court order to have the children returned to the family home. One parent cannot unilaterally decide to move their children away from the other parent and the family home. Sure it happens. That is because the parent left behind does not know their rights and does not get a court order ASAP to have the chidlren returned.
Usually, emergency orders are only granted when there is an emergency putting the child in danger. I consulted with a lawyer about this. He said that unless there was something going on that would show me unstable or unfit, as the primary caregiver, my kids would most definitely be staying primarily with me wherever I went. He said I could even leave the state if I wanted to as long as it wasn't secret and I made sure that everyone knew where I was going. Of course, laws are different in different states, but parents are legally allowed to take their kids wherever they want to unless a court order is already in place. And I have never seen a court order stating that the custodial parent must live at a specific address. Within X miles of the city the other parent lives in, or stay in that state/county, etc sure but never at 1234 Circle Street.
You seem to have the experience. How did it end for you? What was your final straw? How did you react? Were you as cool as you're telling me to be?
I divorced my son’s father in 1996. We had been together for 15 years, married for 11 of them. He was verbally abusive and started to become physically abusive at the end. The final straw was when I figured out about all the infidelity… while I was putting him through medical school. He was a serial cheater. There was nothing to work on. I wanted a divorce.
While we were married I had gone through a lot of counseling to learn ways of handling the anger and abuse. A lot of what I learned did help to reduce these things in our marriage. Mainly I learned how to control my own reaction and to not engage in his drama. It does take two to tango. I learned that he could not make me feel ‘angry’, ‘guilty’, or any other emotion. I felt them when I allowed myself to go there.
When I first left him he went into over drive trying to push my buttons. With all of the emotional upheaval of the divorce I found myself reacting to him in ways that I did not want to react. And owning my emotions was a lot harder. For example the morning that he and his attorney showed up in court first thing, with no notice to me or my attorney, with an emergency petition for 100% custody because Iwas an ‘unfit mother’. Well I kinda lost it at work that morning. It was a huge shock when my attorney called me at work to tell me that we had an emergency and I had to get down to the court house ASAP. Yep I lost it. And then he lost his bid in court and the judge gave him even less visitation because of his antics
There were also a lot of nasty things he said to my face. Those I was able to handle. I had my attorney send a letter saying that he could only communicate with me via email. He could not come to my door when he was dropping off or picking up our son.
This way I could read the email and take time to decide the best way to respond. Often I would type out a rant in response then delete the rant. After that I was ready to reply in a level headed manner.
I had not heard of the 180 in those days but that is basically the way I treated him and worked to be like when I did see him.
Today, our son is 23. We don’t talk much but when we do he treats me nicely with respect.
The reason that I said to not look at your husband as the enemy is that it will cause you and your child more trouble than you can realize.
Anger/hate/etc are like taking poison and expecting the other person to die.
Hmmm. I don't have that kind of support around me. My three bff's, one is super busy w/work, one has major back probs, and one lives too far away, can't really help. And we have no family around here. I have to see him or risk leaving my kids alone (ages 11 and under).
Do you know what I want? I want to confront him, even though it never did any good. I want to tell him off and make him understand (though he certainly won't) that he has no business trying to be so nice, the SOB. Is that wrong? Somebody tell me I have a right to feel like this! Please!
Does he have any nearby family members that you are on decent terms with? Maybe that could be an option. Otherwise, I think I'd do my best to just ignore him. It's good that he's being nice, you really wouldn't like it if he was being rude and hateful. If he tries to joke, just roll your eyes. Don't confront him in front of your kids.
But yes, of course you have every right to be mad as hell! Nothing you can say to him will make him understand though.
Usually, emergency orders are only granted when there is an emergency putting the child in danger. I consulted with a lawyer about this. He said that unless there was something going on that would show me unstable or unfit, as the primary caregiver, my kids would most definitely be staying primarily with me wherever I went. He said I could even leave the state if I wanted to as long as it wasn't secret and I made sure that everyone knew where I was going. Of course, laws are different in different states, but parents are legally allowed to take their kids wherever they want to unless a court order is already in place.
Taking the child on a vacation/trip is one thing. Moving to have the child live somewhere else is quite another.
Yes, laws are different and judges rule differently on such cases.
At one point I move out with my son. The very next morning I was in court with a judge ordering me to return my son to his father. I explained that his father was physically and emotionally abusive. The judge did not believe me and ordered our son returned to the family home where my husband still lived. The judge further informed us that neither parent has the right to unilaterally move a child out of the family home, ever.
It was 4 years before I filed for divorce again… I took those 4 years to learn the laws and find a way to do it so that I could move out with my son. I had to get my husband to allow me to leave.
The first time I left with my son, my attorney told me exactly what your attorney told you. Turns out that my attorney, who had practiced family law for 2 decades was wrong. Attorneys tend to tell people what they want to hear.
I’ve seen a lot of cases when one parent moves with the child only to have the court order the child back home. And this is in many different states.
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Originally Posted by 381917
And I have never seen a court order stating that the custodial parent must live at a specific address. Within X miles of the city the other parent lives in, or stay in that state/county, etc sure but never at 1234 Circle Street.
Nor did I say or imply anything about a court order telling a parent where they must live.
This thread is about parents who have not filed for divorce yet. Neither of them have a court order making one of them a custodial parent. They are parents living together in the family home with their children. One parent cannot unilaterally move the children permanently out of the family home without the consent of the other parent or a court order allowing them to move the children.
Oh, EleGirl, that must have been so hard. year after year. And did you find yourself angry when you learned you had given so much support and effort for nothing? How did you cope with that anger?
The emotional abuse here is nothing like yours. He is a perfect gentleman who just could never stand even to look at me, but could be nice enough at times, or romantic enough, to keep me in tow. Amazingly great sex can really confuse the issues when there's no respect the rest of the time. In fact it's very difficult, without writing 3 or 4 pages worth, to describe what he has done to me over the years because its so subtle. He allows others to feel they have a right to treat me and my marriage any way they like. The end result is that I had to fight for every little shred of self respect I have. I didn't know about 180 until this forum, but I have practiced it as a matter of survival. The worst part is that I'm still in love with him.
My understanding of his true feelings and his disdain came in November when he was sick of dealing with me and wanted a divorce. But then he decided that even though he was sick of dealing with the fact that he didn't love me, he would stay for the kids. But when he pulled another one of his "she is more important than you" stunts, I lost it. I don't want to practice 180 anymore. I want to gouge his eye out and see him suffer untold miseries. Because of his influence on my family, they have turned their backs on me, and now I'm completely on my own. His family are all overseas and are so nice, but I can't explain myself without berating their son. So, they're out.
I have to get over him quickly, but how do you unlove someone who makes you melt with a simple smile, makes you feel safe–despite the contempt and betrayals, loves the kids without question, and who has given the shirt off his back (correction: my back) to anyone who needed it? He is not malicious. But he is the greatest enemy to my happiness. It would be easier if he would be rude and unpleasant. The path would be so much clearer.
How do I treat the husband/father/enemy? 
I don't like it, but I need it. Keep on with it. 
