nomoretogive, you may be Catholic and not able to divorce/remarry, but consider this: Would you rather remain married in a house with a man who is slowly driving you crazy and you are miserable? Or would you rather remain married but live alone and be free to live your life without drama and be able to find happiness in other things?
It sounds like what you're saying is that it's more important to have a man in your home than to be happy.
My dad cheated and left my mom, found out the grass wasn't greener, and asked to come home. My mom refused; he hadn't been that great of a husband to begin with. She lived another 40 years, single and loving it. She told me before she died she was SO grateful she never took him back because she got to live the life SHE wanted, do whatever she wanted, go whereever she wanted, and no longer have to spend all her time worrying about keeping him happy.
Alphaomega helped me out greatly with understanding these things.
In case there is anyone left here who hasn't already judged their mate to be "unfixable", passive aggressive behavior is a dysfunctional expression of anger. A motivated spouse can certainly find their way to begin to understand the origin of the anger their partner is displacing. Just being able to talk about it with a caring partner can be a big help for the sufferer
I disagree about not being able to fix this. I say that b/c I lived most of my life doing PA garbage. I guess it was how I learned to deal with my shytty childhood. That's not an excuse, it's the possible reason. My wife told me for years that I did PA stuff, and I always thought, "Who me?"
I had a bit of a wake-up call in my marriage several years ago. I started reading marriage/relationship books, and then stumbled on the Nice Guy book. Read it with my jaw on the ground, and accepted that I had issues...including PA behavior. I read more on it, read some more, got thoroughly disgusted with myself, apologized to my wife for my PA past, and kept working on me. I think I've mostly beat it. Sometimes I slip, but now I catch myself quickly. So, yes, I believe that if someone accepts it (the hard part), and does the work, they can change.
In case there is anyone left here who hasn't already judged their mate to be "unfixable", passive aggressive behavior is a dysfunctional expression of anger. A motivated spouse can certainly find their way to begin to understand the origin of the anger their partner is displacing. Just being able to talk about it with a caring partner can be a big help for the sufferer
You know not what you talk of. Your position is one of massive naivety. Believe me your naivety and ignorance in these matters is a blessing.
I disagree about not being able to fix this. I say that b/c I lived most of my life doing PA garbage. I guess it was how I learned to deal with my shytty childhood. That's not an excuse, it's the possible reason. My wife told me for years that I did PA stuff, and I always thought, "Who me?"
I had a bit of a wake-up call in my marriage several years ago. I started reading marriage/relationship books, and then stumbled on the Nice Guy book. Read it with my jaw on the ground, and accepted that I had issues...including PA behavior. I read more on it, read some more, got thoroughly disgusted with myself, apologized to my wife for my PA past, and kept working on me. I think I've mostly beat it. Sometimes I slip, but now I catch myself quickly. So, yes, I believe that if someone accepts it (the hard part), and does the work, they can change.
As far as I’m concerned you’ve no reason to duck. Your experience sounds similar to Alphaomega. He also recognised his own PA and how he’d hurt his wife and turned himself around. Not only that he also stepped up to the line to be open and honest about it to help others out.
I think like most things PA is on a spectrum. There’s the mild PA that we all perform at some time or another right up to the massive PA acts of mass murder by truly embittered people. My wife’s brother was one of the latter. These things run in families. My wife and her brothers had an excellent teacher in their mother and father.
These things run very deep. Some PA’s are so focused on their hatred and anger that they simply cannot be introspective and at least look into their own behaviour let alone do something about it.
Some PA’s are so focused on their hatred and anger that they simply cannot be introspective and at least look into their own behaviour let alone do something about it.
Yes, true, and maybe they need a serious shock to the system in order to take a good look at themselves. My wife could have told me a million times, and it would not have even come close to penetrating my thick skull.
Sadly, when we were on vacation one time I was feeling particularly loving and talked to him about being my soul-mate. He simply stared at me and said he had no idea what a soul-mate was.
As I mentioned before, this is a second marriage for both and his ex has been labeled psycho. But I think I would like to have a frank conversation with her.
Wow, to the first part (the soulmate thing). That must have urt.
Secondly, I am not surprised someone like your husband labeled his ex a psycho. It goes right in line with his personality/character.
Sadly, he probably will never change.
Sounds just like my exH. The behavior only got worse over time. And yep--all of his exes were "psycho"s too, according to him.
BaSically the bottom line is tat you are unhappy in your marriage and w/ the way he treats you. Tell him. Either he will work together with you or he won't. If he won't, then you must decide whether you are willing to stay in a marriage where you feel unhappy and like he doesn't care about you.
It’s a boundary thing with these people. You have to protect yourself from their aggression with boundaries. If they abuse your boundaries then you only have yourself to blame if you stay with them.
If they do respect your boundaries that means they are changed and changing. If they don’t it means they will never change for you. So you will get what you always got if you stay with them.
Yes, true, and maybe they need a serious shock to the system in order to take a good look at themselves. My wife could have told me a million times, and it would not have even come close to penetrating my thick skull.
You may have been in denial. It must be very difficult to acknowledge and accept the deliberate, premeditated planning to hurt the person who loves you and the one your are supposed to take care of and look after.
Well done with changing yourself. I truly wish my wife would have at least shown a small sign of change, something to work with and encourage.
It’s a boundary thing with these people. You have to protect yourself from their aggression with boundaries. If they abuse your boundaries then you only have yourself to blame if you stay with them.
If they do respect your boundaries that means they are changed and changing. If they don’t it means they will never change for you. So you will get what you always got if you stay with them.
Ok, I understand boundaries. Lord knows I set enough of them with my kids! But what kind of boundaries CAN you set with a PA spouse? For example - and sadly I bring this up EVERY time we (I) argue - we have a remodel project for which the demolition was done 10+ years ago and there it sits - currently being used as a storeroom for all his kr@p. I have told him before that if it was not completed w/i a year I was going to hire someone to finish it. He said that was a threat and an ultimatum and I had no right to give him deadlines and I was treating him like a child. Are those the kinds of things I need to follow through on? Should I have asked him to sign something?
How about the little things? The suddenly quit talking and I can't figure out what I have done? Or the quick verbal jabs. or the kazillion other things that I tend to shrug my shoulders and pass on. Can you be more specific? And thanks!
I've highlighted a couple of things that stick out to me. YES, YES, YES, it is so flipping hard to explain to other people what is going on, and have them believe me, because like yours, mine is a freaking angel around everyone else. He has them snowed, like he is some kind of catch that I am crazy to complain about. NOBODY understands what I go through on a daily basis. It sounds so stupid when you're trying to explain to somebody:
It all sounds so petty when you're trying to explain how you're going crazy over these little things. Everyone acts like you're making a big deal out of nothing and you come off as the crazy one. I have felt so lonely, so crazy, and so....flawed, something, as I navigate every day, never knowing what is coming next. I feel like my life is a minefield, and I never know when I'm going to step on one and how serious the damage is going to be.
Boy I hear you. Even sometimes when I am thinking about all the stupid little things - like now - I think to myself "You sound crazy! This is all little stuff . . ." But it accumulates and accumulates. When we have our "talks" nothing ever gets resolved. Either he sits there and says "what do you want me to say" or he leaves or stares at the tv. Sometimes he will say "does this make you feel better?" And I have to say NO! Its just the same ol' same ol'!
I think like most things PA is on a spectrum. There’s the mild PA that we all perform at some time or another right up to the massive PA acts of mass murder by truly embittered people.
Interesting the spectrum thing. Yes, we have all done PA things at one time or another. My concern is that after being surrounded by this for so long, am I going to start exhibiting more PA tendencies rather than him doing them less???
Ok, I understand boundaries. Lord knows I set enough of them with my kids! But what kind of boundaries CAN you set with a PA spouse? For example - and sadly I bring this up EVERY time we (I) argue - we have a remodel project for which the demolition was done 10+ years ago and there it sits - currently being used as a storeroom for all his kr@p. I have told him before that if it was not completed w/i a year I was going to hire someone to finish it. He said that was a threat and an ultimatum and I had no right to give him deadlines and I was treating him like a child. Are those the kinds of things I need to follow through on? Should I have asked him to sign something?
How about the little things? The suddenly quit talking and I can't figure out what I have done? Or the quick verbal jabs. or the kazillion other things that I tend to shrug my shoulders and pass on. Can you be more specific? And thanks!
I don’t think you’re at the point where “It’s my way or the highway”. I got to that point because I couldn’t take any more of her aggression. It just hurt too much. Unless you are at that point, boundaries will not do you any good because he wont respond to them and when that happens you wont enforce them.
Before you set and declare your boundaries you HAVE to be prepared to walk and if he doesn’t respect whatever boundaries you set then actually do the walking.
Even when you walk he may still not see the light and change. He may even not try and get you back. But at the very least then you will know that he doesn’t actually love you like a husband should and he’s not at all bothered about keeping you because he just doesn’t value you. That he’s been deeply two faced with you and using and abusing you.
These things can be very hard to accept. But as I say I’ve not once regretted it.
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Re: Passive aggressive or am I crazy?? 
