Not really a kid, but anyway. When our sex life and consequent arguments are taken out of the equation, we actually get along well. It is just a growing monster that is not being dealt with, building resentment and ill will from both behalfs.
Oh don't mind me, "crazy kids" is just something I say from time to time, just being light-hearted.
Your wife is not only willing to help your marriage but she wants to go to counciling with you. Talking to someone who can see your dynamic and learn about you as individuals and as a couple would most likely be helpful.
I find it interesting that op doesn't even attempt to deny the thins his wife said.....you two have much bigger problems. You need marriage counseling, I find it also interesting wife says she has asked husband to go, but earlier husband says wife wouldn't consider it......I guess just a good reminder to us all....when giving advice that we really are only getting one side of the story. Posted via Mobile Device
I stated earlier that when she started pulling the sex/control card, I backed off on the affection. As for the sexual technique she describes, well there is vitriol and there is vitriol. Quickest way to defame a man is to attack his manhood and sexual stylings. so not really worthy of coming back on, again it is about her trying to control every minute thing. No mention of the times I have been pushed away when attempting to show affection, because it wasn't what she wanted right then, another control method from her.... always about what she wants, never a two way street.
In the end you just don't care about the words coming out, because the actions speak louder. Kind of like the fat friend sobbing into their cupcake for the thousandth time about being overweight.
And lastly her paraphrasing things I have said about her weight invokes sympathy and I am the bad man, you think I told her in those words when the subject first popped up. No, I was respectful and asked if there was something she needed to control her weight, as it was part of our pre-relationship discussions, we even bought a home gym and were working out together, she asked for my help as I have thousands of hours of training to have some idea what to do. Every time I suggested doing this or that I was told that it wouldn't work for her, when asked about a healthier diet, she informed me she needed to eat XYZ and couldn't replace it with ABC because she liked the taste or didn't like the texture.
I have expressed concern over her weight and the health implications of her diet choices, a family history of diabetes and a list of risk increasing factors for her, so that makes me an a$$. When we discuss weight in general I have stated that it is disgusting that people let themselves go that far without doing something to control it..... so aka I have called her disgusting in her view. Does she take ownership of any of it, does she do anything serious about it? No, and no. Looks at a fad diet for a week and it is all too hard, takes a supplement for a couple of days and it doesn't magically transform her so she throws it away.
So yeah, you get one side of the story, but even when given another it is distorted.
Do you two want to be right, or do you want to be happily married?
You will never resolve your problems as long as each of you is concerned with justifying your own position, and loudly proclaiming how the other one will not give in and realize how right you are.
I think the suggestion of marriage counseling is a good one. You need an outside view of your issues, and someone to help you both overcome these entrenched resentments. You both have built walls up to protect yourself, and you will not be open to each other until you can tear them down.
I stated earlier that when she started pulling the sex/control card, I backed off on the affection. As for the sexual technique she describes, well there is vitriol and there is vitriol. Quickest way to defame a man is to attack his manhood and sexual stylings. so not really worthy of coming back on, again it is about her trying to control every minute thing. No mention of the times I have been pushed away when attempting to show affection, because it wasn't what she wanted right then, another control method from her.... always about what she wants, never a two way street.In the end you just don't care about the words coming out, because the actions speak louder. Kind of like the fat friend sobbing into their cupcake for the thousandth time about being overweight.
Um, no. I have no desire to control things. That is your desire. I just want a happy marriage with a man who is capable of loving me. I have been asking for you to learn how to be a better, more passionate lover for our entire relationship, you have dismissed it because you think I am attacking your manhood, and tried to turn it around that I am the one with the issues in the bedroom. The only issue I have is that you are unwilling to come to the party on this so I have stopped putting out.
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And lastly her paraphrasing things I have said about her weight invokes sympathy and I am the bad man, you think I told her in those words when the subject first popped up. No, I was respectful and asked if there was something she needed to control her weight, as it was part of our pre-relationship discussions, we even bought a home gym and were working out together, she asked for my help as I have thousands of hours of training to have some idea what to do. Every time I suggested doing this or that I was told that it wouldn't work for her, when asked about a healthier diet, she informed me she needed to eat XYZ and couldn't replace it with ABC because she liked the taste or didn't like the texture.
We worked out together once. I bucked once and you decided I wasnt worth the fight. As for you last line... I'm bewildered.
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I have expressed concern over her weight and the health implications of her diet choices, a family history of diabetes and a list of risk increasing factors for her, so that makes me an a$$. When we discuss weight in general I have stated that it is disgusting that people let themselves go that far without doing something to control it..... so aka I have called her disgusting in her view. Does she take ownership of any of it, does she do anything serious about it? No, and no. Looks at a fad diet for a week and it is all too hard, takes a supplement for a couple of days and it doesn't magically transform her so she throws it away.
Just as I have expressed concern with the amount of alcohol you consume on a daily basis, yet that gets dismissed as it doesnt suit you to look at yourself, its much easier to try to get me to change to suit you.
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So yeah, you get one side of the story, but even when given another it is distorted.
As this wise AFEH says, we are both being pathetic. When are you going to truly understand that and start working on yourself? Or am I to do all the work and all the changing because you earn all the money? (isnt that a form of control right there?)
Also dear husband you have to stop letting this woman who hurt you many years ago, before we even thought about meeting, control our relationship. Yes you got hurt, its not nice, never is, we have pretty much all been there. The trick is to learn from it and move on. Not bury yourself with it, put up walls and carry it with you into your subsequent relationships. Until you really let it go you will never be able to love and be loved that way you wan to. With that pain you buried the passion that our relationship needs to thrive. You buried the passion that you tell me you used to have for life, for yourself you need that back, for our children you need that back. Living with a stoney lump of non emotive coal is very very draining.
LovesHerMan is right.....you two need to start meeting in the middle, counseling will help because right now you are dead locked in both being right instead of attempting to even see things from the others point of view, and compromising on important issues....and you both need to read His Needs-Her Needs-Our Needs and think about what you want from your marriage and how you are going to meet these very basic across the board needs and put pride aside for goodness sake. Posted via Mobile Device
And for the record I was not taking sides there are actually 3 sides to every story's, how he perceives it, how she percieves it and what actually happened Posted via Mobile Device
I'll tell you a few things that stand out to me that really give me pause...
Defining a "normal" attitude. This implies to me VERY heavily that you hold that stance that your wife is not normal because her views are not enmeshed with yours. I don't know but to me that smacks of emotionally abusive behavior. That's a criticism that rocks to the very core.
The comments about trying to control someone with sex. Wouldn't the thinking that you have a right to someone's body, be an issue of control?
There's definitely problems there. But I have to say, it's your attitude towards it that I find the most unhealthy, based on what you have both written.
Whilst there may be issues from both sides, it does sound like your wife is the one most willing to work on the marriage judging from her 'us/we' statements than your 'she needs to' statements.
I'll tell you a few things that stand out to me that really give me pause...
Defining a "normal" attitude. This implies to me VERY heavily that you hold that stance that your wife is not normal because her views are not enmeshed with yours. I don't know but to me that smacks of emotionally abusive behavior. That's a criticism that rocks to the very core.
The comments about trying to control someone with sex. Wouldn't the thinking that you have a right to someone's body, be an issue of control?
There's definitely problems there. But I have to say, it's your attitude towards it that I find the most unhealthy, based on what you have both written.
Whilst there may be issues from both sides, it does sound like your wife is the one most willing to work on the marriage judging from her 'us/we' statements than your 'she needs to' statements.
That's just my take on it.
I can respect where you are coming from, but is it not possible that when asking a question you need to be direct. Is that attitude normal, whereby sex is something that is a chore instead of a time for fun and games? We have gone so far down a ****ty path that I have forgotten what a responsive partner was like. True, I don't tick off her mental checklist on a daily basis to entice, but nor does she create an environment where sex is even seen as welcome.
Did you train your husband to jump thru flaming hoops, sit up, beg, roll over and play dead just to get some action? Sure, I bet he does most of those tricks of his own volition, but when you were finding your middle ground did you punish him for doing those same things just because you weren't interested right then, or did you meet him in the middle and enjoy having a man who was interested in learning what made you tick?
I WAS WILLING to work with her until she decided that cutting sex back to a blue moon event would work to inspire a lover to take all the time in the world to please her.
At some point in working out a solution, something has to give. When I point out the parts that she has to give on to make it work that makes me a bad guy in this???? She frequently points out what she wants me to do, but because in this forum she uses "we and us" statements it automatically makes her more credible.
Of the dozens of times we have come to an agreement on how to move ahead, nothing ever lasts more than a week, apparently I don't do enough to warrant it worthwhile, even tho I make it a point to fill each point she asks for, every day. But then it is all too much because she doesn't "Feel" that I am into it. Of course that will be refuted, but how do you really work on something solid when it all relies on a whim of the moment.
I am willing to work on us, the only time the marriage councillor was raised was when I had read HNHN and asked her to check it out. On every site I have ever read about marriage councillors, they always say they are more miss than hit, so in our small community I can't see us finding one that would be any help, and I am not willing to waste thousands of dollars and travelling hundreds of miles to something that may or may not be beneficial when we have a perfectly good start point to try to work from and a range of tools to use. Exhaust that avenue before looking to a spin doctor.
And for the record I was not taking sides there are actually 3 sides to every story's, how he perceives it, how she percieves it and what actually happened Posted via Mobile Device
Indeed, perception is the key here. What I see and how I see it are different to the way she sees it, I understand that, I don't argue how she sees things, I do argue with her stance on them. She thinks I see things wrongly......
I find it interesting that op doesn't even attempt to deny the thins his wife said.....you two have much bigger problems.
I caught this as well, and it says much. I also caught where Mephisto owned that he is not going to put in more effort than he gets out of her, and that was not disputed by her. My sense is both feel they are compromising significantly but differ on what the end result or what their respective contributions toward that end result should be.
I feel bad for both because it reminds me of the dynamic in my own failed marriage. This (IMO) seems like a good time for them to take a step back and define, from the ground up, what kind of sex life they want / will tolerate and how to achieve it (or whether it can be achieved at all).
These two might find, as I did, that they are not on the same page with respect to where the sex should be. I thought that sex was important to marital happiness; this befuddled my ex, who could not understand why I was unhappy after a month without sex. I was willing to have sex sessions that met both our needs or, if that was too much, to alternate sex sessions that were oriented towards my preferences with those oriented towards hers. My ex refused; sex had to be her way only 100% of the time or she was not interested.
These two need to get there basic concepts in alignment or this marriage is doomed to mediocrity if not outright failure. He needs to get that her sexual needs are different than his own and need to be learned and met. She needs to get that every time she gets her needs met she needs to be ready to meet his in kind. This is not a requirement for every guy, but it certainly is for Mephisto. And, personally, I see nothing wrong that. Some women (not necessarily here) do feel that they are more important, which is relationship death.
In relation to MC's it's been our experience as well that they are hit and miss, but we continued our search until we found one we were happy with. We used our first session with each one as a type of interview session. Our third try we found someone we BOTH absolutely loved.
No, I don't train my husband, and he doesn't train me. There is open communication about what each of us likes and doesn't like and the other takes that on board wholeheartedly.
Indeed, perception is the key here. What I see and how I see it are different to the way she sees it, I understand that, I don't argue how she sees things, I do argue with her stance on them. She thinks I see things wrongly......
Yup, that's kind of what I was driving at with my previous post. Does it feel like when you try to express a different point of view or have difficulty with a request of hers you are accused of not listening, being callous, etc.?
If so, I would suggest adopting a reflective listening approach, with an added step:
1) Listen intently when she is trying to tell you something.
2) Repeat back what she said in your words and confirm that you captured her meaning correctly
3) The added step: take that opportunity to state how you feel about her take on a situation (agree, disagree, need to think). This way, there is clarity on where you each stand and the root issues are identified.
Mind you, this is no guarantee that issues will be successfully resolved. But, you will ensure that you have heard her correctly and she cannot accuse you of ignoring her needs or not caring. Moreover, you avoid the ill will that comes with spinning your wheels and sniping at each other, which only serves to make it harder to reach some sort of compromise.
I caught this as well, and it says much. I also caught where Mephisto owned that he is not going to put in more effort than he gets out of her, and that was not disputed by her. My sense is both feel they are compromising significantly but differ on what the end result or what their respective contributions toward that end result should be.
I feel bad for both because it reminds me of the dynamic in my own failed marriage. This (IMO) seems like a good time for them to take a step back and define, from the ground up, what kind of sex life they want / will tolerate and how to achieve it (or whether it can be achieved at all).
These two might find, as I did, that they are not on the same page with respect to where the sex should be. I thought that sex was important to marital happiness; this befuddled my ex, who could not understand why I was unhappy after a month without sex. I was willing to have sex sessions that met both our needs or, if that was too much, to alternate sex sessions that were oriented towards my preferences with those oriented towards hers. My ex refused; sex had to be her way only 100% of the time or she was not interested.
These two need to get there basic concepts in alignment or this marriage is doomed to mediocrity if not outright failure. He needs to get that her sexual needs are different than his own and need to be learned and met. She needs to get that every time she gets her needs met she needs to be ready to meet his in kind. This is not a requirement for every guy, but it certainly is for Mephisto. And, personally, I see nothing wrong that. Some women (not necessarily here) do feel that they are more important, which is relationship death.
DTO, I have been asking from the very beginning for my needs to be met in the bedroom. My dh is so bloody stubborn that he flat out refuses to even close his eye's while he kisses me. Silly request maybe, but to me a kiss should be felt, not watched. I feel closing the eyes allows you to experience the full sense of lips on lips and you have a better chance of being consumed by the moment leading to further passion, but dh is always so on guard and afraid that he might get hurt that he cannot even give me this simple request.
I also have no desire to be put on a pedestal by my husband. I work hard to provide him with a warm and welcoming home and I do my darnedest to raise our 1 soon to be 2 children. Dh does work off shore and is away for a month at a time, I hold up my end of the bargain by keeping everything running smoothly and dealing with any crisis that come up in his absence. I'm not a princess style, high maintenance wifezilla. I am just sick to death of having bad sex and then being punished for daring to ask for a better quality of intimacy. One thing he said a long time ago when this problem was first occurring was that in his mind the quantity of sex was far more important than the quality of the sex. I cannot and will not ever agree to this. No way, no how! While I am all up for the odd quickie, that was all our sex life had become. I do have sex with my husband, not as often as he would like no but I do put out and have our entire marriage, thing is I have never experienced him reciprocating with a night of passion to satisfy my desires. Romance is laughed at and intimacy is avoided at all cost.
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Re: Defining a "normal" attitude 
