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Old 06-19-2012, 12:18 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: Defining a "normal" attitude

If he likes to keep his eyes open and you don't does it really matter?
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:27 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Default Re: Defining a "normal" attitude

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If he likes to keep his eyes open and you don't does it really matter?
To me, yes it does, and when it is such a simple thing for him to do to help us improve our sex life, I don't understand why he wouldn't do it, or at least try it out.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:59 AM   #63 (permalink)
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In relation to MC's it's been our experience as well that they are hit and miss, but we continued our search until we found one we were happy with. We used our first session with each one as a type of interview session. Our third try we found someone we BOTH absolutely loved.

No, I don't train my husband, and he doesn't train me. There is open communication about what each of us likes and doesn't like and the other takes that on board wholeheartedly.
Here is the key difference.....
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:00 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: Defining a "normal" attitude

Is him keeping his eyes open a problem for you for any other reason than you think that's how he should feel a kiss better?
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:11 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Nope. It is well known that a kiss will be more passionate if both have their eyes closed and are only using the sense of touch to experience the kiss.

Out of my entire post I am wondering why you are focusing on this one little thing? I am using it as an example of how unwilling he is to make changes for the betterment of our mutual happiness. He thinks I am trying to control him. I'm trying to show him another way to experience something as simple as a kiss.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:12 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Here is the key difference.....

Yep. So why are you still repeating actions that got you a bad response the first time when I have openly communicated my dislike for such actions?
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:29 AM   #67 (permalink)
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NO romance? seriously?

Let me see what constitutes for romance...

5 star dining at your requested restaurant, 5 star hotel room and a night out. Followed by an "I'm tired it is my night off"

Fresh flowers, irregularly, but not rarely.

There USED TO BE lots of walking together, in some very nice areas.

Week-long jaunts in foreign cities.

Frequent dining out when it is available.

Day spa packages.

but nah, no such thing as romance here....
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:34 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: Defining a "normal" attitude

Have you two lined up an appointment with a councilor yet?

Maybe that should now be a priority if you're both willing to give it a try.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:57 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Have you two lined up an appointment with a councilor yet?

Maybe that should now be a priority if you're both willing to give it a try.
Ya, instead of this silly forum war!
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:03 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Default Re: Defining a "normal" attitude

Mephisto you have an opportunity to turn your marriage around for the better, why not be a man and take the lead?

Go to counselling, with an open mind, try and give your wife what she needs with out being a doormat and you might just find you have lead your marriage into something great.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:16 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Defining a "normal" attitude

Do you think quantity would increase with quality?

If so - and you're being sincere - then Mephisto should have a clear goal: be the best lover he can be. If better sex leads to more sex, I don't know why anyone wouldn't go for better sex.

However, if you think quality > quantity AND you simply don't desire any quantity, then be honest about that part too.

One thing about not having sex with your partner is that it conveys a message of "I am not attracted to you." That's a rough thing to hear.

There has been some excellent advice in the last 2 pages. Please read over that. Both of you need to drop the resentment and the combativeness ASAP.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:53 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Nope. It is well known that a kiss will be more passionate if both have their eyes closed and are only using the sense of touch to experience the kiss.
Well known to who?

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Out of my entire post I am wondering why you are focusing on this one little thing? I am using it as an example of how unwilling he is to make changes for the betterment of our mutual happiness. He thinks I am trying to control him. I'm trying to show him another way to experience something as simple as a kiss.
This example shows real issues on both side. Yes, it is a small thing that he could do to make it better for you. I would encourage him to do this from time to time as a gesture to you.

But it is also a small thing that shows you telling him what is the right way to do things. Perhaps he is more visual, so he gets heightened enjoyment with also watching you when he kisses you? What if he demanded that you open your eyes to better enjoy his kisses? I understand you have what works for you, but yours is not the universal experience. You are trying to control your husband, and I suspect he is rejecting that.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #73 (permalink)
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DTO, I have been asking from the very beginning for my needs to be met in the bedroom. My dh is so bloody stubborn that he flat out refuses to even close his eye's while he kisses me. Silly request maybe, but to me a kiss should be felt, not watched. I feel closing the eyes allows you to experience the full sense of lips on lips and you have a better chance of being consumed by the moment leading to further passion, but dh is always so on guard and afraid that he might get hurt that he cannot even give me this simple request.

I also have no desire to be put on a pedestal by my husband. I work hard to provide him with a warm and welcoming home and I do my darnedest to raise our 1 soon to be 2 children. Dh does work off shore and is away for a month at a time, I hold up my end of the bargain by keeping everything running smoothly and dealing with any crisis that come up in his absence. I'm not a princess style, high maintenance wifezilla. I am just sick to death of having bad sex and then being punished for daring to ask for a better quality of intimacy. One thing he said a long time ago when this problem was first occurring was that in his mind the quantity of sex was far more important than the quality of the sex. I cannot and will not ever agree to this. No way, no how! While I am all up for the odd quickie, that was all our sex life had become. I do have sex with my husband, not as often as he would like no but I do put out and have our entire marriage, thing is I have never experienced him reciprocating with a night of passion to satisfy my desires. Romance is laughed at and intimacy is avoided at all cost.

Whats a girl to do?
I think the root of this is that you both have to accept that your individual preferences are equally valid and strive to equally benefit from sex. To get more of what you want you have to give him more of what he wants.

Now for some specifics:

Saying "I hold up my end of the bargain by keeping everything running smoothly and dealing with any crisis that come up in his absence" reflects poorly on you. This says you see sex as a bonus - his needs ultimately are his problem. The reality that frequency is low in deference to you, and you still insist on a "you centered" experience solidifies this perception.

Also, making that statement is unfair to him and diminishes his contribution to the family. Working offshore for a month at a stretch probably means he works 12 hour days during that month. He could counter that you get to sleep in a warm cozy home, without having to worry about bills while he's in a dorm for a month at a time having to keep himself going and provide for you and the children. If you don't think bearing responsibility for the bills being paid every month is a heavy burden, try it some time. He could easily say "you would not have this house to maintain if I did not bust my butt offshore for a month at a time - you need to be more appreciative".

By saying you will accept only occassional quickies, you are severely limiting your opportunities for sex. You guys already cannot have sex for half the year because he works offshore. No doubt you both are tired when he is back in town and he needs to rest so he can do his next month's stint. Then I'm sure he wants to do stuff as a family (non-sexual). Ultimately, his time with his family is limited and you seem to insist that sexual encounters be oriented toiwards your needs. In this scenario, when does HE get to be the priority?

You say the sexual frequency has not been what he would like. Has this been a constant throughout the marriage or a more recent development as you have become increasingly dissatisfied with your sex life? Would you be willing to have more sex the way your H wants if he has more sex the way you want (BTW, your H thinks the answer to this question is "no")? Or, are you a fairly LD person who expects him to adjust to you?

Remember that when you say you insist on a better quality of sex, you mean that you insist on WHAT YOU PERCEIVE TO BE a better quality of sex. Treating it like an objective "right vs. wrong" type of thing ignores this subjectivity. He has already told you that his perception of quality differs from yours. Do you acknowledge his perceptions and offer, say, a 50 / 50 split?

You say that you do not expect to be put on a pedestal. But, that is not entirely accurate. You seem to expect that your sexual needs be pre-eminent and that his satisfaction come within the bounds of what you accept sexually. I don't see a willingness to have his needs come first on a regular basis. That is precisely what being put on a pedestal is, and you're doing it.

So, what would I recommend you do? Guarantee him more sex the way he wants if you get more the way you want. Surprise him (assuming he hasn't read this) by saying something like "H, if you love me up and romance me for a night when you come into town, I will knock your socks of with a couple of righteous BJs before you have to leave again", and follow through with it. I can't imagine he would refuse. I acknowledge this means you may put more ongoing effort into his sexual needs than you thought. But, there's nothing wrong with that; marriage should be about you both getting more by investing in each other, not about one of you getting more because the other gets less.

If you will not implement my suggestion (or some variation thereof), then your best bet is to be upfront with your H. Simply acknowledge that you have little interest in having sex his way and that either he needs to have sex your way or get used to low levels of sex. Don't smooth it over by saying that the sexual problems are his fault if you know that there are no circumstances under which you would have sex the way he wants. He will respect you more for being honest than if you tried to blameshift or avoid the issue.

Best of luck to you both.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:54 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Defining a "normal" attitude

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To me, yes it does, and when it is such a simple thing for him to do to help us improve our sex life, I don't understand why he wouldn't do it, or at least try it out.
My guess? He won't like it (i.e. does not see it as improvement), it will be all for your benefit, and he feels that if he asks you to do something strictly for his benefit you will refuse.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:01 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Nope. It is well known that a kiss will be more passionate if both have their eyes closed and are only using the sense of touch to experience the kiss.

Out of my entire post I am wondering why you are focusing on this one little thing? I am using it as an example of how unwilling he is to make changes for the betterment of our mutual happiness. He thinks I am trying to control him. I'm trying to show him another way to experience something as simple as a kiss.
It's drawing attention because it is a convenient example of how you take two personal perceptions (that it is an insignificant change and that it would be an improvement in the quality of sex) and turn them into objective truths. He might actually prefer eyes open, but your argument does not even acknowledge this, much less plan to accomodate it.

Put differently, your argument is "if he would do ABC - no big deal really - then we both would be happier". Why do you not instead say "I understand that ABC might be a big deal for him, so if he were to do it for me then I would be happy to do XYZ for him"?

Ultimately, what you need to know is that many if most guys don't see sex you do, which is pretty much a 100% romantic extension of the emotional closeness aspect of the marriage. While guys want to be with women who love them and not just a random lay, the sex in the relationship exists as a source of pleasure in itself, separate from the emotional connection. If you treat sex as "well we are close and connecting so you should be happy" and ignore his need to "get off" so to speak, Mephisto will be unhappy and the relationship will suffer.

You might at this point wish you were with a man who was LD for sex or at least was not interested in the physical pleasure aspect of it. The reality is you are married to Mephisto, who says he will meet you halfway regarding sex (and I believe he is sincere); he merely wants equality, not supremacy. You also have lots of advice here that basically suggests that you indeed meet him halfway and do just as much for him sexually as he does for you.

At this point, there are only two alternatives. You are either willing to meet him halfway (and agree to put forth the necessary effort) or you are not. If the lack of sexual connection is really the issue, then both of you putting more effort into each other simultaneously should be acceptable to you. If you are unwilling to meet him halfway (and I'm assuming he is not into anything like S&M or threesomes) then that unwillingness is the problem and not his sexual preferences. That unwillingness to rate him equal needs to be resolved before it eats away at the other aspects of your marriage; your willingness to rate him equal needs to extend to other issues such as where to live, where to work, how to raise the kids, etc.

Last edited by DTO; 06-19-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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