This is me

I agree with Stonewall. One person can make a difference. I see there is love here and it is salvageable, but you really have to put your ego down just like someone who quits smoking has to make up their mind to change the behavior.

Love is the answer.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBDmUqp0JTU&noredirect=1

Don't Give Up! Patience.

http://nashlinks.com/midlife.htm

SprucHub

Why, if you are like this, will it be better with someone else? Anyone that begins an a discussion or argument aware of the fact that he cannot admit he is wrong and cannot accept constructive criticism from someone that loves him and committed to spend her life with him is simply wrong for engaging in the discussion.

It is not ego that prevents you from admitting you are wrong, it is pride and self-doubt. If you thought highly of yourself, you would not be afraid to be wrong. If the other person knows you are wrong, and you know you are wrong, then you are sacrificing your dignity for your pride.

Since you are separated anyway, why don't you try writing to each other how you feel, all your frustrations and resentments. Then each of you can write back explaining why you agree or disagree with the other's assessments.

IndiaInk

I'm always amazed at how people can so accurately pinpoint their own problems...but then disregard that knowledge when trying to seek a solution.

First of all RESENTMENT is a HUGE, HUGE marriage killer...and it's something everyone who values their relationship should guard against, because it builds slowly over time.

While many factors can plant the seed for resentment, it's really lack of communication that makes it grow..

And once it's there, smaller and smaller things contribute to increasing it...little habits and quirks that you'd barely notice in a stranger start to irritate you intensely, until the mere presence of one's partner causes feelings of severe anger (even hatred)...at least until some big crisis happens and one realizes that the hate they "imagine" they feel isn't nearly as real or powerful as it seemed

Because anger fueled by resentment is not the same as the hatred felt towards an actual enemy...it's caused by some important person in our lives failing to live up to our "perception" of what their role should be...

e.g., children resenting a father who was never home or their parents who divorced...wives resenting a husband who doesn't make enough money thus failing to be a "provider" etc...

Whatever the causes of your own personal resentments, you must address this problem NOW. And do not make any other serious investments in this marriage (house, kids, etc) until then...because unresolved resentment ALWAYS grows larger over time...it NEVER decreases...and it's very good that you can already label you negative feelings as "resentment"

So, how to address it? Well, you yourself gave your own blueprint in your OP:

1. Communicate.

What are the things that you resent about your husband? Can you already see the typical pattern: there were a few major original causes, that are now mixed in with lots of small petty stuff? Tell him those. And have him do the same to you.

2. Your admission that you both have an ego problem impressed me.

Some inner voice is warning you that your sense of pride is making these fights worse. Why are you ignoring it?

So the next time you fight, rather than stewing in your rage, "be the bigger person" call him and own some of your faults. Sure it can be hard at first. But it'll get easier. And you won't die. It's very likely that he'll start to admit to some of his own faults too. (people who can take their share of blame, come off as "wise" and generally encourage others to follow their example).

Obviously this distant living problem has to be solved...but I'm pretty sure it's solution is bundled up in the communication and pride points.

Please realize, if you can't make headway over the resentment, your marriage will fail.

And you don't want to look back thirty years from now and wonder what might've been if you'd just given this your best shot do you?

In fact, I think the reason you're unsure about wanting to divorce is because some part of you knows that you haven't really done that yet

Good Luck!!

swedish

Have you considered individual counseling? Since you acknowledge you find it hard to be wrong even when you know deep down you are, I would think this is something you should try to work on, on your own to tear down some of these walls you have built up. The bottom line is that until you do, staying or leaving won't really matter because any future relationship will likely go the same way...starts out all sunshine and roses and when the initial passion fades it will not be replaced by a deeper love because the walls you have put up are preventing you from being fully intimate with your partner.

__________________
~Swedish

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.
Albert Einstein

Jellybeans

This doesn't sound like a marriage, it sounds like war.

Schedule a time to talk about your marriage and what you can do to improve it.

Check your egos at the door. Pick your battles wisely. Stop fighting and bickering.

Start loving and communicating. Plan date nights. Be k ind to one another.

Marriage counselling.

Find out what your love languages are and heed them.

that_girl

Someone lied to you about what love is.

Love is not what you have. You are attached to him. Addicted to him, whatever. But it's not love.

Love doesn't treat people that way.

This is me

I think deep down they do have the love they once knew. Like when a teenager goes through the "hate the parents" stage many of their actions would not be loving, but beneath it all the love is there. The ego misfits is the key. They just need to work through it all.

Reading through this it seems clear to me they are struggling like many of us have and need to make the marriage number one, less egos, more good examples and some good professional counselling.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBDmUqp0JTU&noredirect=1

Don't Give Up! Patience.

http://nashlinks.com/midlife.htm

This is me

I was just rereading this:

"I really don't know, I just dont. I would love to get into counseling with him, but knowing his ego and his personality, I really do doubt that he would give in. He doesn't think anyone should know of our problems (especially a stranger) and believes through communication we can solve everything. That only lasts for a nano of a second. "

I find it interesting that you say" he would give in" Its not giving in its both of you trying to make it right when you go to counseling and all the more reason to suggest it. Or is the ego in the way?

The second part about not wanting strangers to know is crazy. Much better to have strangers involved, especially trained professionals than to have those we know who have their own agendas.

I remember my W telling multiple people we both know about our problems and thinking they were all keeping it to themselves. Only a fool would believe when she told one sister that it was not making its way to all the others or one friend not telling others. At the same time she was mad that I was coming here to TAM where nobody knows us. Bizarre!

The least amount of people who knows the better and a professional counselor has an obligation to keep it under wraps.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBDmUqp0JTU&noredirect=1

Don't Give Up! Patience.

http://nashlinks.com/midlife.htm

moxy

Sounds like you guys just don't know how to communicate well or resolve conflict. That's fixable, if you both work at it and want to fix it. Find a good marriage counselor to learn how to fix those issues because sometimes it's easier to deal with big egos when you have a neutral third party there to call you both out on your bad behavior. Also, try dating each other again just to try and reconnect in a way that isn't about fighting and power struggles.

__________________
"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

"“We first crush people to the earth, & then claim the right of trampling on them forever, because they are prostrate." -Lydia Maria Child.

moxy

Well, if it's over for you, then it's over. Just let go and move on. If you wanted to try to work it out, you wouldn't be eager to throw in the towel. However, I think the conflict and dynamic between you both has upset you. I think you should go to IC to see if you can work on some of your own anger and resentment issues so that when you do open up to someone else, you won't end up in a similar trap and repeat this kind of dysfunction in a new relationship. Things won't change without an effort to redirect their pathways.

__________________
"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

"“We first crush people to the earth, & then claim the right of trampling on them forever, because they are prostrate." -Lydia Maria Child.

Cosmos

I agree with the above. Without counseling, you could take this sort of behaviour into your next relationship.

It's a pity about your marriage, but if you truly don't see a way forward for you both, then there's little more to be said.

__________________


When the past calls, let it go to voicemail. It has nothing new to say.

Ten_year_hubby

Were there any men around where you grew up? What were they like? What kind of behavior (if any) did you observe from men when you were young?

amillionpieces85

First - thanks all for the advice, this is probably the most counseling i'll be able to get in a long time. number 1 reason - we live in separate states right now, number 2 - I cannot afford it. :/

I've been drained, financially, that's exactly what this relationship has done to me since day one, and honestly, it has really taken a toll on me. All I've been wanting to do is sleep sleep sleep, because I feel like no matter how hard I work, it's useless. I know that sounds really childish, I'm here complaining of my issues, yet sleeping at the same time, but honestly, I feel emotionless and I just want to sleep forever.

Yellowroses - we fight about anything and everything. The stupidest things ever, and the biggest issues as well. Example, two days ago ... Well first quick recap , we both have been living in different states for 2 months. He moved to Cali because he decided it would be the better state for us, he has family there, told me he'd go ahead, find an apartment, settle down and then I'd go over. Deep down I knew it would be a big mistake, I explained my concerns, but he insisted, said he's the "man of the house, knows what he's doing, knows whats best for us ... blah blah blah" .. i gave in, figured it'll be a couple weeks and I'd follow. I continued my job here, but gave a notice that I'll be leaving, continued "bringing home the bacon" as I have been for most of our relationship. Anything I made, went to him, and towards our "big move". Our apartments lease is to finish this month - he knows that, and he knew he would have to move quickly so I wouldnt be signing another lease in this state while hes signing another lease in Cali.
So, Im not always on his back, as I do know he has things to do, people to see, interviews to attend, the whole process, I understand it.
I dont hear from him all day -- 2 nights ago --- then he finally calls me after midnight as Im in bed. And I was missing him. And yes there was resentment as well, I just didnt appreciate him not putting an effort into contacting me, I didnt want to keep calling and coming off as the needy or suspicious wife. He calls, tells me hes coming home from vegas, he'd lost 350, and that he "misses me"... welll, let's just say I wasnt too happy about this. I make all the money, have been making all the money for more than a year now, and this is the time he wants to "prove hisself to me" - we are already having financial issues, which he believed he can resolve by going to vegas, nope doesn't work like that honey. It really pissed me off. AND it hurt. Because I try not to spend, AT ALL, I know how financially draining it can be to move and I dont really think its necassary that he spend his day in Vegas.
I didn't yell, didnt argue, but I did stay quiet throughout our convo. He figured it out, and went off on me. He said i was "selfish, inconsiderate" that I "hate to see him happy" that he lied about vegas that he hadnt even gone, he was just seeing how I'd react. Well, here I am already pissed off at him "losing 350" if he really had- and now to think hmmm, he was lying to me about it, what exactly is his motive? I was pissed, but quiet before. I then became furious and let out everything. I have been bottling up everything for so long, I just couldnt take it anymore, let it all out on him, told him not to contact me, that he was sick, and that I want out and want a divorce. I hung up on him. He called me 30 times within the next hr. I didnt answer. He kept trying, he texted me. I didnt reply. Its been two days, hes calling and hes texting and I dont even have it in me to pick up or reply. Im just ... I feel dead on the inside.

amillionpieces85

That's what I'm doing now...

amillionpieces85

Of course there were. There were the men of whom I interacted with at school, shops, the community, work. All were different from the men of my family. A good different. Which is what lead to my perspective and way of life. I knew I didnt want to live like my mom and the women of my family. Treated like a maid and piece of meat. So after highschool I did what no other female in my family has done, I went to college, pursued my education, started work, became independent, and knew what I wanted in life. I met my husband 3 years into college, he knew I was "different", knew what I wanted, encouraged me, and was ok with my lifestyle. He still is okay with it. But he thinks I'm too much of a man and need to chill. And I hate to say this, but the only reason I am too much of a man (yes i am) is because I dont feel hes man enough ...