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post #46 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

Originally Posted by Mommybean View Post
Even when we were at our worst, I never lost the physical attraction to him. I tell him any time I notice that I think he looks sexy, or hot, or that the haircut I gave him really suits him. He was 24 when we met, I was 30. He will be 30 this year, and has grown past the boy-toy hottness into a very striking man, and I tell him that all the time as well, whether it be in text messages, phone calls or face to face.
I LOVE it when he does yard work...and he laughs at me when I go and stand outside so I can watch him try to start the weedeater or lawnmower....he was doing side work last week and said he almost had the maintenance guy take a picture for me (landscape work) of him working because he knows I like it so much.
THIS, my friends, is exactly what I desire. Mommybean, I am envious!

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post #47 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 09:32 AM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

Believe me, our relationship has taken a LOT of work...we are still working on it. He has cheated before, recently even...but the last time, was truly his "rock bottom", and it has been a significant turning point in our relationship. He realized how many of his behaviors actually stem from his environment when he was growing up, and that if he continued them, he was going to lose the most pure love (his words) he had ever had. Now, with him in therapy, and on anti-depressant meds (which have not dulled his emotions at all, more so enabled him to sort his thoughts out better)...we are both very happy in the bedroom and out of it. I fought like hell to get to this place, and I am just glad that he got out of his own way, because I really believe that between us, the best is yet to come!
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post #48 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:38 AM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

Originally Posted by nwguy111 View Post
What's the best way to address this subject? Would asking my wife the question, "how can I make myself more attractive to you?" be a good approach or not? Or would it be better just to state (as you've done), "if you won't acknowledge me, then I'll find another who will."
It's an internal thing between you and you. It does not require discussing. Once you have woken up and realised that you are not appreciated, and your blood starts to boil with the fact that you've been a chump, and it's no-one's fault but yours, you are in the position to say "I'm on the verge of leaving you". And she will feel the truth behind the statement - and you won't be shy in spelling out the exact reasons why.

Once all that is on the table, she may decide you're worth fighting for, or she may let you sling your hook. Unless you can cope with either option... forget it. You may as well crawl back under your stone.

Nobody will place a higher value on yourself than you do. When she sees that you are placing a higher value on yourself, then she might automatically upgrade her own view of you. That's how this stuff works. Everything appears to be the other persons fault, but in reality it's all a projection from within. We subconsciously manipulate people into reflecting how we feel inside.

When you no longer feel so worthless, you will stop wanting to be with a woman who reflects that. In turn that will manifest in her either falling in love with you, or you moving on.

That's what happened to me, but along the way, I also realised that I had not helped the situation by neglecting my wife in the early years. It was just youthful ignorance and unexamined selfishness.

Since things got better, I have had insights into my past treatment of her which have caused me to have to say "sorry" repeatedly. But that part can only come after the other stages, otherwise it's just seen as creeping.

Every time you creep and beg, you go down on her value scale.

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post #49 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 03:55 PM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

Originally Posted by MizSmith View Post
But what I can say is women crave less direct physical contact as a way to start our engines. Especially if it's been so long. I love sex myself but still need to be warmed up and direct sexual contact isn't always going to cut it. I like to be pursued little by little.

Holding hands
Massage or rub ( I like the rub down..)
Inncocent sweet kisses in surprising places (neck, ear, etc)
Hugs/ Holding her.

There are a number of quotes in here with which I would about not making assumptions about her feelings, but asking her to share. One earlier by MT about how you value yourself...but I don't know if I would go so far as demanding she give you the admiration you crave. Her sexual interest in you should not be your barometer for value. If you think it is, you will always be disapointed. You may actually want to explore co-dependency issues more deeply, just to see if there is something going on inside your head.

That said, in reading this post and a bit of your other one, you could be my husband. Although honey if you are lurking here, come to bed and let's get naked instead

If he were to post his frustrations with me, they would most likely sound a bit like you. Perplexed and angry at how often he feels like he does not measure up or is not attractive to me. Part of what draws me to this forum is to try to understand the differences in our sexuality by listening to other people's stories.

It is possible her libido is much lower than yours. I usually don't think about having sex nearly so often as my husband seems to, even when we are close. Although, ironically, when I offer or request, he often clams up or gets tired....maybe a reaction to the years I did that.

So, I have been experimenting with making myself more available and willing to have sex with him...just to see if it changes my feelings towards him or his "coping behaviors". I have only been able to try this recently because I have finally dumped some of my resentments. The results are mixed. There is a dance that is part of flirting which allows some give and take that is harder to get when marriage power struggles start up.

Also, you might want to investigate the symptoms of peri-menopause. It begins to hit many women in their 40's and can really begin to affect their sexual appetite. If there are other things blocking this .... resentments, you letting your own physical appearance and health slide, their own health issues or fears, or another can make a woman dread being physically intimate. There were times I felt like throwing up because I felt so compelled to "service" his need.

We have recently both told each other we do not want to continue if we cannot work this part of our relationship out to be more satisfying to both of us. Unfortunately, it is still very tentative as to what that means. So often I really do need bit of what MizSmith describes...partly because I need to be reminded of the fun. If it's not fun for both people it becomes a bigger block to intimacy than a help.

I think you should tell her how important it is to you to feel intimate with her. Let her know you enjoy sex but even more desire intimacy with her and ask her to engage with you in research and experimentation to find the right balance for you both. Hope it goes better for you and good luck in figuring this one out.
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post #50 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 04:08 PM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

Originally Posted by nwguy111 View Post
Yes, I have felt for awhile that she's been losing interest. I offer her massages all the time. I'll fix a nice dinner, pour a couple glasses of wine, take her out for an evening, go for walks together, etc. Sometimes this works. Most of the time it doesn't. I never expect anything in return, but she always assumes there's a catch. I keep telling myself to be patient and kind, but it starts to wear on a person after awhile when they don't feel their needs are being reciprocated. At the very least, if she could show a physical attraction to me. This way, I wouldn't feel like she was simply servicing my needs every now and then.
Dude, this is NOT spicing it up!! Pull out a can of whipped cream or something and see what happens. Make it fun and NOT "goal directed" if you know what I mean. Love making can get horrifyingly routine if you don't change it! Don't stop the nice stuff, but try new things sexually. Look on line for ideas; has some good stuff!
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post #51 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

Originally Posted by sisters359 View Post
Dude, this is NOT spicing it up!! Pull out a can of whipped cream or something and see what happens. Make it fun and NOT "goal directed" if you know what I mean. Love making can get horrifyingly routine if you don't change it! Don't stop the nice stuff, but try new things sexually. Look on line for ideas; has some good stuff!
Good call!

I've tried some of this in the past, but now's time to give it another go.
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post #52 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 07:10 PM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

I have a similar problem in my marriage, my husband would like sex every day but I am satisifed with only 2x per week or less. It's become a huge problem in our marriage. He has become more detached from me and less talkative and says it's because I don't want to have sex with him as often as he wants to.

I tell him, treat me well and emotionally connect with me on a daily basis and I will feel like having sex more, but mostly he's just grumpy ALL the time. If he'd only make the effort to be 'nicer' to me, he'd notice a difference in me..but he just doesn't 'get' it.
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post #53 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:11 PM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

I'm not going to read every page.

I'm the woman and I'm the one who feels that sex is too infrequent.

He is VERY affectionate. He's most women's dream -- for the women who don't want to actually have sex. He's verbal, he's cuddly. However, what he has is some sexual issues.

We discussed it this morning. I feel that I miss him. He doesn't understand. I explain that the lack of sex is a problem and when he says it hasn't bothered him I don't understand.

Truth is, he has some issues in that area. Less frequent sex makes him feel more successful when we do have sex.

And, he's right. If you're keeping score, he's spot on.

So, I'm wondering if I want to push him for more because his sexual satisfaction is also important.

While we typically hear about the man being the one deprived, sometimes it is the other way around. And maybe it is helpful to consider that less sex might mean better sex for the partner who has the lower drive. And, doesn't what they want/need count, too?

To me, real love means accomodating the lower drive as much as most people tend to think it means accomodating the higher drive. In fact, I think it is a greater sign of love to be able to accept less, and then to pour all of that passion into those fewer encounters.

Again, I'm the woman. I do think about stepping out. I'm no saint. But if I ever did, I'd probably kill myself. My values don't allow that option. Further, I do love my husband. Loving him means accepting his limitations, too.
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post #54 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:16 PM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

To answer the question about orgasming... I will say that after orgasming I don't "need" (I'm not jonesing) for sex again. HOWEVER. It isn't like nothing happened the previous night. I'm more affectionate. I smile more. I admire more. I glow.

It sounds as though your wife is uncomfortable with letting go. I'm so totally enamored with my husband after sex. But maybe she's afraid you're not going to be as satisfied as she is so she's reluctant to be effusive.
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post #55 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-15-2009, 11:22 AM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

I need to find someone to validate my sexuality. Oh man, is that SOOO true.

To me, sex = love. validation of not just my sexiness but my worth as a woman and a human. When I'm rejected or ignored, I feel put down, worthless, undesirable. The little kisses, hand holding, looks, smiles, compliments etc - I think I miss those the most.

No flirting, no sex, not even any real cuddling for MONTHS had me thinking 'what did I do wrong? How can I fix it?' Now I'm just wondering - after being accused of 'sleeping around' when I haven't, if maybe that's the only course left for me.

Living the rest of my life as second fiddle to even the cat in his esteem is just too much.

Talk to her before it's too late. I made the mistake of taking my husband at face value when he said he just wanted a 'break' from sex and he had some 'issues' to work thru. I trusted him, believed in him. Now it's been almost a year since we had mutually satisfying sex (with one or two exceptions when he actually TRIED)
and now months since any sexual contact with me at all. And he's leaving me. And said he doesn't want a relationship but wants to find people to have sex with. I should have thrown more of a fit before - but I just tried to be nice. Stupid me.

Don't let it get to that point!! Talk to her.

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post #56 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-18-2009, 10:20 AM
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Re: Sex: Finding the Middle Ground

I've come to the conclusion over the years that this is not a problem you can "discuss" your way out of. Notice how every time you try to tell her that your needs are not being met, she drags out a scoreboard and tries to make you feel like YOU are the greedy one.

Mark is right. I know exactly how you feel. We are stupid suckers who thought that if we just did a little bit more for our partners, they would be happy and they would give us what we need.

It doesn't work like that and it NEVER will.

You need to say "I am not getting what I want out of this arrangement" and MEAN IT. She KNOWS what you want, she knows EXACTLY what you want. She has just learned that she can get away with not GIVING it to you.

She needs to know that she can't get away with that anymore.

Whether she steps up to her responsibilities or leaves, you are better off.

Good luck.
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