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Old 01-30-2013, 08:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default HELP ME; I need a womans point of view

I posted this in the Coping With Infidelity section, but the majority of replies were non-contructive. Only KathyBaetsil gave me some really good advice, but I'm looking for a variety of opinions. Read this; it's good:


My wife and I have been married 12 years. We have 3 children together; ages 11, 9, and 6. I'm quite a bit older than her; I am 50, she is 34.
I look good for my age, keep in shape, etc. I am a very loving, affectionate, caring guy; I cook, clean, do the dishes, give her backrubs, buy her turtles (her favorites); just generally try to make her feel special.


She is the exact opposite. I'll be lucky if I get a kiss from her once a month (unless it's a quick goodbye kiss as she's leaving for work). She's not affectionate at all, but I knew this from before and have learned to live with it.
That's just how she is. Our sex life is great! We still have sex (up until recently) 2-3 times a week, and she can even orgasm twice once in a while. No complains there.


We've had some hard times in the last 5 months, argueing and such, which I will explain later. A couple of weeks ago I walk in the door, all smiles happy to see her. I try to give her a kiss and she turns her head. I then tried to kiss her again but she just pulled away.
She's done this before, but everytime when she was busy doing something. This time she was just standing there.



That hurt me so bad inside, I just shut down. I stopped giving her attention; started acting the way she treats me. She responded by being very terse with me, no more long conversations, even more distant, etc. I finally stopped talking to her; she responded by saying "What, now you don't even want to talk to me?". 3 days later I asked her why she was treating me so badly; that it seemed we were more like roommates, not husband and wife.
I also told her that she needed to see a psychiatrist because of past issues before we were married that have never gone away (she was abused by her stepdad).

Instead of a positive reaction from her (lets work this out, etc), she totally disengaged herself from me. "We're like roommates, huh?". A couple of days later she said that she needed to figure out why she treats me so bad, that she doesn't trust me anymore, that she needed some time to herself to figure out who she is. She brought up that maybe we should get divorced if she couldn't come to terms with all of this. She basically said "I need to figure out who I am; you need to leave!".

So here I am 3 days later, staying at a friends house, letting her figure out what she wants to do. She didn't give me a date for me to come back.


HER ISSUES WITH ME

She doesn't trust me anymore - I helped build a house for my Mom, and when she sold it, she gave me $30,000 for the kids education fund (Missouri MOST) and $5000 to help pay for a new roof for the house. I never told her about it, knowing that the money was not going for us. The $5000 I put in our joint savings account, and she checks it online every so often. It's not that I put it under the mattress to hide it, I just didn't think it was a big deal. BTW: she has a checking account in her name only; I got pissed off when a couple of years ago I opened up my own saving account, so I closed it to make her happy.

I save money every month which goes in our safe, and had to take out $1900 to cover a stock trade that went bad. Then she wanted to know exactly how much I spend per month and where the rest of the money was going. I told her every detail; and she's told me many times she isn't interested in investing or how it works.

I order her food for her: She told me that she's tired of me telling the waiter/waitress what she is having; "I have my own mouth, I can order myself!" To me it's just common courtesy for the man to order.

I order her beer for her at the bar: Same as above with same reaction

I walk in front of her, not with her: Many times, definitely guilty of that

"You walk away when I think that you're behind me": Guilty of that too. If I see something I like, I'll mosy off and she'll say, "where did you go, I thought you were behind me"

She stated that she felt like I was like her father, and she wanted some space to figure out who she is. I don't consider myself a controlling person; maybe she does.


HER OTHER ISSUE WITH ME

Like I said, I am a loving,trusting husband who would never do anything intentionally to hurt her. I've made 2 mistakes in our marriage:

1) On my birthday 8 years ago, I went to order a beer at the bar. I went up to the bar and ordered the beer, and stated it was my birthday. The girl standing next to me said "Happy Birthday", gave me a quick (and I mean quick) kiss and walked away. My wife was pissed. She's never let me live that down, saying I was "Sucking Face" with her. Not true.

2) 2 Years ago New Years Eve, we were out with some friends. I barely ever drink any hard liquor, but I got to drinking shots that night for some reason. I don't remember anything after about 2 hours in there. Total blackout. My friend told me that at Midnight, I gave the bartender a kiss on the cheek. My wife then punched me in the face. Like I said, I don't remember any of this; and I certainly will never get that drunk again. She's never let me live that down either.


NOW FOR THE GOOD PART


We've always done everything together, we generally get along great. Like I said, our sex life is great! About a year and a half ago, her friend broke up with her boyfriend and was really depressed. My wife said that she would go out with her to cheer her up. She started going out to the bars fairly frequently while I stayed at home with the kids.

I started getting worried (and I'm not a jealous guy at all, even she'll tell you that), especially after she and her sister went to a party at a guys house who invited then to go after the bars closed and she didn't come home until 4:30 in the morning. She ended up being Facebook friends with him. In her defense, I don't think she ever contacted him.

After about 5 weeks of this, she sits me down one day and says: "Would you mind if I have sex with other guys; It's only sex, it doesn't mean anything". I asked her how she would do this, she said "I'll just get a guys phone number, and when the urge arrises, maybe once a month, I'll go over to his house and F*ck him. No emotional ties whatsoever, it's only sex". I asked her if I could do the same thing; she said "No, you would get too emotional and get attached to the girl".

Man, that killed me. It was like my heart had been ripped out and stomped on. I never, ever, would have thought that she wanted another guy. She never acted like she wanted one. I cried for 4 days, had to see a psychologist, before she finally realized how much it hurt me. She then said she was just gauging my reaction, she really never wanted anyone else.


I hurt for about 2 months, then got over it. Everything was going alright.


ROUND 2

Part 1:

Last summer in July, we had 3 soccer coaches from England staying at our house for a week. One of the guys was really attractive, and she just swooned over this guy. She tried to change her work schedule to stay home, didn't sleep during the day when she was working night shift, etc. She then took them to the bar one night, I showed up about Midnight just as she was rubbing her rear in some other guys c*ck.

Man was I dissappointed. What really hurt me was that she payed him more attention in 1 week than I get all year!


She then starting going to the bars again, this time with a couple of local friends. She was going out once to twice a week, coming home late, having fun and dirty dancing.

PART 2:

In late September, she went to a 3 day conference in Columbia, MO with one of her friends. The 2nd night she was there, I hired a private detective to tail her. I called her about 6pm and asked her what she was going to do. She said she was going to go shopping, go out to eat, go back to the Hotel bar for a couple and go to bed. The detective followed them to Kohls and dinner, and she was doing exactly what she told me she was going to do.
I was happy! I trusted my wife, so I called off the detective and told him to go home.

I then called my wife around 9pm because I was going to bed. She said "Not much is going on here, just having a few beers and going to call it a night. I love you". Man, I was happy, she barely ever says "I Love You", so when she does, it means a lot. We talked for about 1/2 an hour and she said "I Love You" again before hanging up.


At 12:30AM the phone rings. It's the detective! I said "What are you doing calling me, I called you off!" He said: "I've been doing this a long time; I know how it ends". Apparently her and her friend had gone downtown and picked up a couple of guys. I found out later that these guys were in fact staying at the same hotel they were, were drunk and needed a ride home. That was verified.

The detective gave me the play by play: The guy her friend was with went back to his room, while my wife and her friend and this other guy went to my wife's room (she was rooming with her friend, he was rooming with his). He went to the bathroom, and then my wife and him went to his room. I was freaking out. I waited about 10 minutes, the called back to her room.

I wish I could have seen the look on her friends face when I called. I asked to speak to my wife, and she stuttered "She's in the bathroom". "Well, give her the phone!". "I can't, I'll have her call you when she gets out". She then called my wife who calls me back. I made up a fake story about me having a bad dream. She said "Don't worry, I'm in bed and ready to go to sleep; I'll call you tomorrow".

I waited another 15 minutes, then called her again. I couldn't stand it any longer. I told her there was a detective that had been following her and she was busted. She lied and said there wasn't another guy, he must have had the wrong room. He verified she was indeed with the guy. She hung up on me, then she texted "We didn't have sex". She told me that they were just talking, she wasn't tired yet and wanted to stay up a little bit longer.

Needless to say I wasn't very happy. When she came home the next day, we had a big fight, but at the end, we made up. I wanted to believe she was telling the truth.


PART 3:

I was bummed out for about a month, but got over it. One halloween night, we got dressed up, went dancing and had an absolutely awesome time. It was so good, I told her it reminded me of when we were dating. Hadn't had that much fun in years! About a week later she bought a card and told me how special I was and that she loved me. She had never done this in our entire marriage, so I felt great!!!

Then in December we went out for her birthday and were having a good time. She asked if she could dance with other guys. I said no problem; like I said, I'm not a jealous guy. We were both on the dance floor, and she started dancing with this one guy. Next thing I know, she had her hands all over the guys *ss and was feeling him up on the dance floor. I was dissappointed. She told me later that's how she always has danced. She just likes dirty dancing and it doesn't mean anything.


With all this happening within 4 months, I started having good and bad days. She couldn't understand why I was acting like this. If I were to do the same thing she does, we'd be divorced. There's a huge double standard in our relationship.

Example: We were at Walmart a couple of weeks ago and I was in the checkout line. She snuck off because the person behind the register was a girl. We struck up a conversation about the weather and work. She was fat and pregnant, married, definitely not attractive. My wife comes up from behind and says "Didn't know I was behind you, did you". She gave me a dirty look and walked away.

A week later, we were shopping again. I asked the checkout girl if I could borrow the Aldi's ad to comp. All I said was' "Can I borrow the Aldi's ad, I'll bring it right back". My wife got pissed and told me to get my own cart. I had had enough. I walked off, got in the car, and went home. I couldn't take it anymore, She called and I picked her up. That was the beginning of where this story started.


I don't know what to do. I love my wife to death, she means the world to me. What's going on here? Any advice?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: HELP ME; I need a womans point of view

Sounds like you are married to a nut who doesn't want to be married.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: HELP ME; I need a womans point of view

she doesnt respect you, that is clear. I know this sounds harsh but you are being a doormat, you should have dealt with this behaviour a long time ago. It sounds like she has lost all physical attraction for you and uses you to fulfill her needs when there is no one else around. She needs to feel a desire for you again and that will not happen if you continue to be her doormat. Man up and distance yourself from her emotionally, be nice but no more intimacy! go to the gym, start looking your best and if you dont have confidence..fake it!! there is nothing more attractive than a man with confidence in himself and his ability to make decisions.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: HELP ME; I need a womans point of view

Her big problem with me is, I make all the decisions, and she thinks she doesn't have a say in anything, which is not true. On investments, she doesn't have a say because she told me once she didn't care about that stuff. She has a very low self esteem, even though she is an attractive woman.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Read this; it's good:
No it's very bad.

She wants time to figure out who she is. You should heed that, in my opinion.

If you're 38 and marry a 22 year old... it sounds a bit silly to complain three kids later about how immature she's turned out to be.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Edit: You have posted this same scenario on three different threads and each and every thread provided you with pretty much the same reply. She's cheating, in one form or another. She doesn't love or respect you. She has serious problems you cannot resolve.

So I have to ask, what kind of response were you looking for? How is that 20 different responses all repeat the above theme and yet you remain hopeful? You came the the nurses office with a serious oozing, the bandaide must be ripped off before healing can begin. Stop protecting your illusions and start protecting yourself! :End Edit

You married a woman who never grew up. Thats the problem in a nutshell.

She's out with friends, drinking, dancing and I would bet my house she's hooking up for minor petting at least. Maybe not relationship affairs, but certainly playing the field. She might love you, but the behavior you describe doesn't sound like love does it?

You may need more affection and reassurance than she can handle. Maybe that is triggering her to seek random men who aren't looking for reassurance and just want her for an hour or two. But is that fair to you? That she not only doesn't try to meet your needs she punishes you for having them? Doesn't sound like mature love to me.

Your marriage sounds a LOT like my best friends marriage. She goes out to party frequently, she dances, flirts with and has minor hook ups with various men she meets. She doesn't have sex with them, just heavy petting. She gets excitement, she gets validated, and the sad part is, I cannot think of a way, nor can she, that her husband can meet her needs for excitement and validation.

You say she over reacts to absurd instances of you talking with another woman. I wonder if she is doing to you, what she secretly wishes you would do to her? Or, maybe she's just looking for a fight, so she can focus on being mad at you instead of feeling rotten about herself for her behavior. Again, this doesn't sound like she loves you, more like she views you as another parent trying to control her. What do your kids yell when they are punished? "You are so mean!"

It is not very likely you can talk, reason or negotiate your way to having a wife who isn't stepping out on you. From the way you describe her, she doesn't seem to have much insight into her behavior, much less accept responsibility for not only what she is doing but what that does to you. Again, not sounding like love.

Last point I want you to understand. Each time your wife steps out on you, she looses respect for you. Each time you look the other way, convince yourself that you're over reacting, she rejoices in her victory and she grieves the loss of her husband. She is just going to get worse and worse.

You deserve to have your love returned. Now you must make that happen.

You must put your foot down, no more bars with friends. No more out of towns with friends. She has to enter therapy to understand why she needs to have this level of excitement in her life so she can control it and channel it into something less harmful to your marriage. If she refuses these terms, in any sort, she is essentially telling you she expects to be able to do what ever the hell she wants, whenever the hell she wants, and how you feel about it is of no consequence.

This means, you have to prepare for this relationship to end. You can't put this genie back in the bottle. You hired a PI who told you she was in another hotel room with another man<-- there is nothing more that needs to be added to that scenario.

What Kathy told you was probably spot on, but likely not what you were hoping to hear. Where you really hoping to hear that everything was going to be just fine and you are being overly sensitive? It's not and you're not.

Last edited by Anon Pink; 01-30-2013 at 10:37 PM. Reason: More info discovered.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: HELP ME; I need a womans point of view

Thanks all you ladies for the replies, especially the detailed one from AnonPink. That's what I wanted; an in-depth analysis of what's going on. My only conflict is,
1. Why did she buy me the card after that night out which said that "For my guy, I love you"
2. Why did she buy me a new wedding ring last month for Christmas (I had lost my ring years ago)
3. Why does she still hold me when we go to bed?
4. Why did she grimace when I told her we ought to think about dating other people if she wants her space?



I can read my wife pretty well, and I could tell that hurt her when I said that. That was the first time in the last 3 weeks that she showed any sign of emotion towards me.

Last edited by guitardude; 01-31-2013 at 05:25 AM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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1. Your wife married TOO young and now she's regretting her lost youth.

2. Although you look good for your age, your age is MIDDLE AGE (says the 56yo woman). She is still quite young and probably attractive. She is thinking she's missing out on a lot of hot sex by being "tied down" to you.

3. She buys you the card and the wedding ring because she does NOT want to have to be a single mom with three kids to support. She likes the financial security of being married, but NOT the sexual exclusivity, the need to behave, the need to consider YOUR feelings and your (joint) marriage before she can do what she wants.

4. She wants to cake eat: she wants to live her single/drunk/partying/hot sex life with her friends, but ensure that she still has her home, bills paid, someone to watch the kids (for free!), someone to help make parenting decisions.

5. In my opinion, she doesn't love you anymore, she is merely comfortable in her lifestyle (financially). *THAT* is why she doesn't want you to date someone else, she's afraid you'll meet someone else and she'll have to split your paycheck with some other woman.

6. In my very jaded opinion, if you got run over by the bus and she was left with a huge wad of money, she'd be even happier than she is now.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: HELP ME; I need a womans point of view

I don't think money is an issue. She makes good money.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: HELP ME; I need a womans point of view

What about points 1-4?



Why don't you tell US what you believe is going on.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Point 1: She was married before. She met her first husband at 12 years old, eventually formed an intimate relationship with him (he was 14), then got married at 19. They broke up before their marriage a couple of times and she got to experience other guys. They divorced 9 months later, then she hooked up with another guy and ended up living together, but she screwed around on him with about 3 - 4 other guys. She was with him about 6 months, then I met her. She was 21 at the time. We got married when she was 22.

Points 2 - 4: I agree, I think that when she started going out with her friends after 10 years of marriage, all those guys at the bars dancing with her and most likely hitting on her made her feel wanted I guess. That's when the problems started.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardude View Post
Point 1: She was married before. She met her first husband at 12 years old, eventually formed an intimate relationship with him (he was 14), then got married at 19. They broke up before their marriage a couple of times and she got to experience other guys. They divorced 9 months later, then she hooked up with another guy and ended up living together, but she screwed around on him with about 3 - 4 other guys. She was with him about 6 months, then I met her. She was 21 at the time. We got married when she was 22.
And you're surprised at her behavior now?

She isn't wife material. She married too young, too fast and you are too old. She wants to have fun with other guys and while she may not need your money you do serve some purpose (for now). You can either face this fact or continue to post on tam looking for a different answer.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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GuitarDude, I get the sense that you are grasping for straws by looking for ways to save your marriage. From the information you have posted, your wife seems to have problems. The kind of problems that are not solvable by a loving husband. Clearly, you are a loving husband and really want to make this work.

It seems to everyone who has responded in all of the threads that your wife isn't capable of being the kind of wife you want, even as badly as you want her to be that wife.

If, as Kathybatesel suggests, your wife has suffered under the hands of her stepfather, the damage done to her is so deep that it will take her years of intensive, brutally honest, soul searching under the tuteledge of a highly qualified expert psychotherapist. Can she become the wife you want while being the wife she is? I don't think anyone knows that answer. And what happens to you and your children during her learning years? Again, there's no way to tell.

I think you need to cut to the chase and define your boundaries and expectations. I think you need to insist on ground rules and when they are broken, and you know they will be, what will be the consequences. I don't see any other way for you to maintain your sense of balance, your need for love, a committed partner, and regain the trust unless/until she enters rehab. I say rehab because she's going to have to relearn what love is, how to show love and how to get love.

I don't like suggesting you cut bait and run, but in this case I wonder if your wife has the ability to keep her skewed ideas and needs from infecting everyone around her. Furthermore, soul searching is painful and hard and people generally avoid it, unless forced into it. And even then, dipping a toe or two into the water and finding it too cold to be palatable is a common response to those who must come to terms with their own daemons, such as your wife has to face. With out a compelling and perhaps earth shattering reason to dive in, she's likely to dip and wade thus getting nowhere.

The most troubling aspect is her honesty, or lack thereof. At this point,, if she really wants to work this out and promises to enter therapy and abide by your rules of decorum, she must come clean with her past indiscretions. I don't see her as being capable of being honest with herself let alone you. Also, I don't see you being capable of truly discerning the truth from what she or you, wishes the truth to be.

Good luck, be strong and feel confident that you have done all that you can to be a good man and a good husband. Now she must do the rest.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:23 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I just had a long talk with my wife. She was adamant that she had never fooled around on me. I told her how disrespectful it was of her to be doing what she has been doing. She said that I had never fully explained to her how much it bothered me, and she didn't think of it being a big deal since she was doing it in front of me and with me also on the dance floor. As far as the hotel incident goes, she explained that she didn't want to have sex with the guy, she works night shifts and wasn't ready to go to bed yet because she's used to staying up all night and her roommate was tired so they went to his room instead to finish their conversation.

I want to believe her, because she insisted she hasn't cheated on me. She said "believe me, I have had plenty of oppertunities to cheat on you, and I haven't. I just like having a good time". In her defense, she has always dirty danced, ever since I met her.

The sad part of it now is, she said she has no feelings for me at all anymore. All of this little stuff that I've done wrong over the years and the way I've reacted to everything going on lately has taken a toll on her, and she's given up. She said she doesn't care anymore. "Go out and find a good woman, you deserve better; I obviously can't give you what you want".

I feel bad for our marriage. We had a strong, great marriage before, and it's fallen apart in the last 5 months. She says she has felt this way for a couple of years. I would have never known, because she never told me. I thought things were fine.

I told her she is a good woman, a good person, how beautiful and sexy she is, and that I loved her and would do anything to make it work. She started crying. She has such low self-esteem that I feel she feels worthless, that she isn't a good wife. What to do now?
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardude View Post
I just had a long talk with my wife. She was adamant that she had never fooled around on me. I told her how disrespectful it was of her to be doing what she has been doing. She said that I had never fully explained to her how much it bothered me, and she didn't think of it being a big deal since she was doing it in front of me and with me also on the dance floor. As far as the hotel incident goes, she explained that she didn't want to have sex with the guy, she works night shifts and wasn't ready to go to bed yet because she's used to staying up all night and her roommate was tired so they went to his room instead to finish their conversation.

I want to believe her, because she insisted she hasn't cheated on me. She said "believe me, I have had plenty of oppertunities to cheat on you, and I haven't. I just like having a good time". In her defense, she has always dirty danced, ever since I met her.

The sad part of it now is, she said she has no feelings for me at all anymore. All of this little stuff that I've done wrong over the years and the way I've reacted to everything going on lately has taken a toll on her, and she's given up. She said she doesn't care anymore. "Go out and find a good woman, you deserve better; I obviously can't give you what you want".

I feel bad for our marriage. We had a strong, great marriage before, and it's fallen apart in the last 5 months. She says she has felt this way for a couple of years. I would have never known, because she never told me. I thought things were fine.

I told her she is a good woman, a good person, how beautiful and sexy she is, and that I loved her and would do anything to make it work. She started crying. She has such low self-esteem that I feel she feels worthless, that she isn't a good wife. What to do now?
I may be repeating something someone else has said, and if I am I apologize, but here's my assessment:

Your wife is gassing your head up. She is in fact interested in fvcking other men, she told you she was. You just don't want to accept this is who she is. The tears and the feel sorry for me thing is more about keeping her security blanket in place. Make no mistake, she still wants to fool around, she just wants YOU to be okay with it so she can do it openly without any nasty guilt creeping up on her after the deed is done.

Your problem is you're hooked in by the very thing she is out there selling to the other men. The sex is so good, you can't see straight. The time you've invested in your relationship makes it hard for you to believe she's really this loose type of person who would engage in wreckless sexual behavior with strange men. I'll go further and say you bore her and she is a thrill seeking type of woman. It's almost the same high that clepto's get when they shoplift when she goes out and parties and flirts.

The question is this... what are you going to do with the information you already have? Are you prepared to live this way for the duration? She's shown you who she is. Now the ball is in your court. Accept it or leave her because you cannot. In my opinion if you stay and tolerate this you're only enabling her for more of the same. She sees it as a free pass to continue because why??? NO CONSEQUENCES.

She needs to grow up. No doubt there. She needs counseling too to figure out why she's so unhappy and needs this kind of attention. Lots of unresolved issues here... and this isn't the time for you to help her throw a pity party and feel sorry for her. You need to man up.

Last edited by A Bit Much; 01-31-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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