Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 10:51 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Originally Posted by EnigmaGirl View Post
Nah, just find a woman who's financially stable on her own, wants to be an equal partner and isn't looking for someone else's to take care of them monetarily. There are a lot of good women out there who just want a good man and aren't after a cash payout.



You have the right to have whatever opinion you please about me or anything/anyone else. I assure you that your bad opinion of me won't be keeping me up at night.
Causing insomnia is not my intent, just pointing out the hypocrisy.

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post #32 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 11:23 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

Elegirl,

The post below is beautiful. It's what most women REALLY are like.

My ex friend routinely dropped $500 on an all day date. But he also resented it. Like I said - ex friend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
From the perspective of one female (I can only speak for myself.)

After my divorce I dated 4 guys. The men were divorced just as I was. Some had younger children, some not.

What we did was that we took turns asking the other out. The one who asked paid. (I hate going Dutch.) I like this arrangement because the asker can plan the date to be something that they could afford. What mattered to me was not how much money a guy spent but how much thought he put into the date.

For example a date to do the river walk and have a picnic basket with wine, cheese and crackers can be as romantic as it gets. Or finding the best hole-in-the wall taco/burrito place in town is fun too.

Now if the dates are all going to his place to watch tv because it's essential free... too much of that is not cool... no thought, no effort. And it speaks of the goal to have sex, not to spend special time together.

IMO, it's not the money that is spent that is the issue.
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post #33 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 11:36 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

OK back to topic............

life lessons post divorce: discuss all things openly and honestly, sex, kids, morals and financial issues. Some of these have emotion attached (speaking personally) and some are black and white. Issues around kids and finances are non emotional for me, B&W we were either compatible in these areas or not, if not then it would never have progressed to a LTR.

Most people are not gold diggers IME but yes some are. Like most things to do with relationships my POV is start how you intend to finish which means no pretences, no bait and switch just plain old honesty.
4 years down the track Mr H and I are still on the same page with all these issues, no blind siding as we were honest from day one. We have a very balanced financial situation and contribute in an equitable way.

Post divorce we should all have finally grown up into becoming real adults and to avoid conflict it is good that "like finds like" ie partner up with someone that has the same/similar financial level as yourself so it takes away the possible complications.
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post #34 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 11:47 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

Enigma,

I want to understand your viewpoint a bit better. Do you consider it an unequal exchange of a woman stays home with a bunch of kids and treats her SAHM job like a pro? Meaning:
- Kids get a high quantity of high quality attention
- Mom specifically chooses activities with educational value - such as reading to them in a way that gradually teaches them to read.
- Runs the house like a Swiss clock, everything is clean and organized
- Spends carefully AND efficiently - prizes her ability to find bargains/negotiate
- Puts the husbands sexual desires ahead of her own - by having sex more frequently than maybe she'd like, because she knows his job is stressful
- Without hesitation gets up and deals with any night time disturbances so he can get a good nights sleep

In the spirit of proactive reciprocity I'll go first.

I absolutely dislike the politically correct nonsense of the current day which favors statements such as: being a stay at home mom is the HARDEST job in the world.

The post below is from 5 years ago. And we had some - control issues - which have since been resolved.

When we met we both earned about the same and made good money for our ages. When we had kids I did not WANT 100 percent of the financial responsibility. We fought about it. She prevailed. I wanted 2 kids - she wanted 3. We had 3. Our first child took 2 two hour naps a day and slept through the night. I am NOT a messy guy and I like to cook. While we had one child - her life was definitely easier then mine and she will tell you so without hesitation. And I will also say that she is a great mom and would read the kids the same book 50 times in a row if they asked or play candy land 100 times in a row if they wanted even though she hated that game. She was 10 times better in her role then I would have been.

This whole idea of men being beholden to women because the women have a 7/24 job is a fine concept but in reality:
- There is a HUGE difference between a 6 month old and a 7 year old in terms of labor intensiveness.
- And between an easy kid and a difficult kid. And between a difficult kid and a special needs kid.
- Between 1 child and 4 children

So if you have 4 preschool kids then you trump ANY person working for money in terms of workload. If you have 1 easy child who is 2 years old and a hard working husband then IME your life is in a very real sense easier then his.

As for the "house". I have been the house husband for the last year plus. So lets start with the whole 7/24 thing. You are ON CALL 7/24 sure. But actual work hours can be a LOT less then 60 hours a week and as for what is a work hour well lets address that.

If I spend 3 hours a day on the house - which is the MOST it takes - on the house - how do I compute hours worked when:
- I watch tv while folding the laundry which is the only labor intensive part. Sorry doesn't feel like work.
- I can unload the dishwasher while on the phone with friends. Same for picking up the house a bit - using my telephone headset. If I do a bunch of "work" while chatting with friends and watching tv how does that compare to a stressful job dealing with demanding customers? Not saying it is effortless - I AM saying that it feels political when I read how women have it so hard and men have it so easy.

On the revenue side:
- There is a difference between a 40 hour work week and a 60
- Between a low travel job and a high travel job
- Just as there is a huge difference between being a librarian and being a technology consultant in stress level. So instead of speaking in gross generalizations I will be specific.

In my house:
- When we had 1 child her life was easier.
- When we had 2 children her life was still easier since the first was almost 5 when the second was born.
- When we had 3 children 2 of whom were quite young her job was harder and I should have helped more
- When all 3 of them were in school full time her job became easier again - details below.


Fast forward 13 years:
- All 3 kids are now in school - youngest is in first grade
- I am now working a job that is very difficult and emotionally draining - and yes time consuming.
- I am earning per month what I earned per year when we met
- She is taking great care of the kids - as always - but treats any extra requests I have as a very low priority

We had intense conflict over this last bit - for over a year - at which point she made my requests a high priority - they were never things that were very time consuming - things like getting me a house key made. And you know what I emotionally started to burn out ON MY MARRIAGE. Because I really started to feel used. And - amazingly - I got so angry about it - that it did effect our sex life for a while.

So I can understand how the reverse is true - when the reverse REALLY is true. I just don't think women always address the specifics of their situation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaGirl View Post
Actually this is exactly what I said...I just again pulled it from my post.

Your failure to comprehend what I wrote doesn't negate the fact that I wrote it.





That's because I believe a lot of them are gold-diggers and men should absolutely avoid them. My opinion doesn't require your agreement. My opinion is that there are far too many women who seek men for monetary gain.



lol, I don't hate anyone. I simply have zero respect for women who don't act like financially responsible adults and I make no secret of that. Last time I checked, I can pretty much admire or not admire whomever I please.
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post #35 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 01:08 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
Enigma,

I want to understand your viewpoint a bit better. Do you consider it an unequal exchange of a woman stays home with a bunch of kids and treats her SAHM job like a pro? Meaning:
- Kids get a high quantity of high quality attention
- Mom specifically chooses activities with educational value - such as reading to them in a way that gradually teaches them to read.
- Runs the house like a Swiss clock, everything is clean and organized
- Spends carefully AND efficiently - prizes her ability to find bargains/negotiate
- Puts the husbands sexual desires ahead of her own - by having sex more frequently than maybe she'd like, because she knows his job is stressful
- Without hesitation gets up and deals with any night time disturbances so he can get a good nights sleep

In the spirit of proactive reciprocity I'll go first.

I absolutely dislike the politically correct nonsense of the current day which favors statements such as: being a stay at home mom is the HARDEST job in the world.

The post below is from 5 years ago. And we had some - control issues - which have since been resolved.

When we met we both earned about the same and made good money for our ages. When we had kids I did not WANT 100 percent of the financial responsibility. We fought about it. She prevailed. I wanted 2 kids - she wanted 3. We had 3. Our first child took 2 two hour naps a day and slept through the night. I am NOT a messy guy and I like to cook. While we had one child - her life was definitely easier then mine and she will tell you so without hesitation. And I will also say that she is a great mom and would read the kids the same book 50 times in a row if they asked or play candy land 100 times in a row if they wanted even though she hated that game. She was 10 times better in her role then I would have been.

This whole idea of men being beholden to women because the women have a 7/24 job is a fine concept but in reality:
- There is a HUGE difference between a 6 month old and a 7 year old in terms of labor intensiveness.
- And between an easy kid and a difficult kid. And between a difficult kid and a special needs kid.
- Between 1 child and 4 children

So if you have 4 preschool kids then you trump ANY person working for money in terms of workload. If you have 1 easy child who is 2 years old and a hard working husband then IME your life is in a very real sense easier then his.

As for the "house". I have been the house husband for the last year plus. So lets start with the whole 7/24 thing. You are ON CALL 7/24 sure. But actual work hours can be a LOT less then 60 hours a week and as for what is a work hour well lets address that.

If I spend 3 hours a day on the house - which is the MOST it takes - on the house - how do I compute hours worked when:
- I watch tv while folding the laundry which is the only labor intensive part. Sorry doesn't feel like work.
- I can unload the dishwasher while on the phone with friends. Same for picking up the house a bit - using my telephone headset. If I do a bunch of "work" while chatting with friends and watching tv how does that compare to a stressful job dealing with demanding customers? Not saying it is effortless - I AM saying that it feels political when I read how women have it so hard and men have it so easy.

On the revenue side:
- There is a difference between a 40 hour work week and a 60
- Between a low travel job and a high travel job
- Just as there is a huge difference between being a librarian and being a technology consultant in stress level. So instead of speaking in gross generalizations I will be specific.

In my house:
- When we had 1 child her life was easier.
- When we had 2 children her life was still easier since the first was almost 5 when the second was born.
- When we had 3 children 2 of whom were quite young her job was harder and I should have helped more
- When all 3 of them were in school full time her job became easier again - details below.


Fast forward 13 years:
- All 3 kids are now in school - youngest is in first grade
- I am now working a job that is very difficult and emotionally draining - and yes time consuming.
- I am earning per month what I earned per year when we met
- She is taking great care of the kids - as always - but treats any extra requests I have as a very low priority

We had intense conflict over this last bit - for over a year - at which point she made my requests a high priority - they were never things that were very time consuming - things like getting me a house key made. And you know what I emotionally started to burn out ON MY MARRIAGE. Because I really started to feel used. And - amazingly - I got so angry about it - that it did effect our sex life for a while.

So I can understand how the reverse is true - when the reverse REALLY is true. I just don't think women always address the specifics of their situation.
Mem, this is a good post. Clearly there is no one size fits all in marriage with children.

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post #36 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 05:21 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
Enigma,

I want to understand your viewpoint a bit better. Do you consider it an unequal exchange of a woman stays home with a bunch of kids and treats her SAHM job like a pro? Meaning:
- Kids get a high quantity of high quality attention
- Mom specifically chooses activities with educational value - such as reading to them in a way that gradually teaches them to read.
- Runs the house like a Swiss clock, everything is clean and organized
- Spends carefully AND efficiently - prizes her ability to find bargains/negotiate
- Puts the husbands sexual desires ahead of her own - by having sex more frequently than maybe she'd like, because she knows his job is stressful
- Without hesitation gets up and deals with any night time disturbances so he can get a good nights sleep

In the spirit of proactive reciprocity I'll go first.

I absolutely dislike the politically correct nonsense of the current day which favors statements such as: being a stay at home mom is the HARDEST job in the world.

The post below is from 5 years ago. And we had some - control issues - which have since been resolved.

When we met we both earned about the same and made good money for our ages. When we had kids I did not WANT 100 percent of the financial responsibility. We fought about it. She prevailed. I wanted 2 kids - she wanted 3. We had 3. Our first child took 2 two hour naps a day and slept through the night. I am NOT a messy guy and I like to cook. While we had one child - her life was definitely easier then mine and she will tell you so without hesitation. And I will also say that she is a great mom and would read the kids the same book 50 times in a row if they asked or play candy land 100 times in a row if they wanted even though she hated that game. She was 10 times better in her role then I would have been.

This whole idea of men being beholden to women because the women have a 7/24 job is a fine concept but in reality:
- There is a HUGE difference between a 6 month old and a 7 year old in terms of labor intensiveness.
- And between an easy kid and a difficult kid. And between a difficult kid and a special needs kid.
- Between 1 child and 4 children

So if you have 4 preschool kids then you trump ANY person working for money in terms of workload. If you have 1 easy child who is 2 years old and a hard working husband then IME your life is in a very real sense easier then his.

As for the "house". I have been the house husband for the last year plus. So lets start with the whole 7/24 thing. You are ON CALL 7/24 sure. But actual work hours can be a LOT less then 60 hours a week and as for what is a work hour well lets address that.

If I spend 3 hours a day on the house - which is the MOST it takes - on the house - how do I compute hours worked when:
- I watch tv while folding the laundry which is the only labor intensive part. Sorry doesn't feel like work.
- I can unload the dishwasher while on the phone with friends. Same for picking up the house a bit - using my telephone headset. If I do a bunch of "work" while chatting with friends and watching tv how does that compare to a stressful job dealing with demanding customers? Not saying it is effortless - I AM saying that it feels political when I read how women have it so hard and men have it so easy.

On the revenue side:
- There is a difference between a 40 hour work week and a 60
- Between a low travel job and a high travel job
- Just as there is a huge difference between being a librarian and being a technology consultant in stress level. So instead of speaking in gross generalizations I will be specific.

In my house:
- When we had 1 child her life was easier.
- When we had 2 children her life was still easier since the first was almost 5 when the second was born.
- When we had 3 children 2 of whom were quite young her job was harder and I should have helped more
- When all 3 of them were in school full time her job became easier again - details below.


Fast forward 13 years:
- All 3 kids are now in school - youngest is in first grade
- I am now working a job that is very difficult and emotionally draining - and yes time consuming.
- I am earning per month what I earned per year when we met
- She is taking great care of the kids - as always - but treats any extra requests I have as a very low priority

We had intense conflict over this last bit - for over a year - at which point she made my requests a high priority - they were never things that were very time consuming - things like getting me a house key made. And you know what I emotionally started to burn out ON MY MARRIAGE. Because I really started to feel used. And - amazingly - I got so angry about it - that it did effect our sex life for a while.

So I can understand how the reverse is true - when the reverse REALLY is true. I just don't think women always address the specifics of their situation.
As usual a fantastic post MEM, we are getting way off track here but relevant in a way because in the end this is the end goal that is primary for me personally....

my son, my first born, the one that had lived longer than the other two in an "intact" family unit has just passed his VCE (higher school cert) with incredible results, was second DUX of school by .5%, 98% ATAR, VCE Baccalaureate, Cert in CISCO IT, School award for the State Govt. level for leadership, Defence Force recognition Medal for leadership and will without any doubt will get his first preference for Uni entrance.
My "job" as a SAHM and WAHM for all those years was to cater to my family, to run around and drive for up to 3 hours a day taking kids to this and that. We are post divorce and he is an "intact" human being, he is amazing. I did an amazing job, his dad did an amazing job. One of us earned great money, one of us did the hard yards with our kids but we are equal value to our children. Some things are more important than money.

BTW my second born we have been told is going to give her brother a run for his money and is set to be an even higher achiever, not bad for a two house hold family.
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post #37 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 06:58 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

To get back to the OP, I really think the issues of post divorce financial arrangements vs those pre-marriage or during marriage are completely different. Or at least should be for mature responsible adults. Our motivations are different or at least should be. We are no longer looking for someone to support us (that works both ways guys) but someone to enhance what we have.

When we were younger few of us had a clue about life. And we had the all the time in the world to figure it out. As we have gotten older, we have all learned lessons along the way. We have developed new boundaries which we are more eager to enforce and a lot less likely to compromise.

Regardless of what someone's threshold of acceptable is, it still goes back to you just being you. If you are a responsible, self sufficient human being, you will find someone who is willing to accept you for who you are. Heck even if you aren't you will still probably find someone - but that is a whole different discussion. Striving to meet someone else's standards are a recipe for unhappiness. If a woman doesn't want to be with me because I don't make 250k or don't have a 7 figure retirement package, it's good to know. I am much more focused on the things that make me happy to worry about her expectations. As far as I am concerned, it is her loss, not mine. And I am not saying that in a vindictive way. If she thinks a salary and assets are important, that is her choice. It just isn't mine.

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post #38 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Considerable Earning Power or CEP for short lol is around the $250k p/yr mark plus bonuses. Any other questions?
Does that leave a wide pool of eligible bachelors in your geographical area?
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post #39 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 11:55 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Does that leave a wide pool of eligible bachelors in your geographical area?
Ha ha, I was thinking if that's her ceiling, then I need to shoot higher, because my expectations are clearly too low.

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post #40 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 12:07 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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A big generalisation there.

For casual dating I never cared what they earned but for a serious relationship it was/is very important that he be either a big earner and/or have a reasonable amount in assets.

Post divorce and at this stage in life one of the most important considerations for me was compatibility and financial compatibility is no less important than sexual, moral or any other issue.
Post divorce I would suggest people look for others that are in a similar situation, no matter which part of the scale you are on, low income to very high income/wealth then look for potential mates in the same financial category as you.
This doesn't resonate with me.

If I was to divorce, I would still be pretty well off. I would be open to anyone that I got on well with. If they had tons of money fine, but if they were low income, it wouldn't matter to me. I don't see a need for 'financial compatibility'.

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post #41 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 05:05 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Does that leave a wide pool of eligible bachelors in your geographical area?
No idea but I do live in a big city. Anyway I did meet the right man so it doesn't concern me how many are in this bracket but it is not uncommon most of my circle earn this or more.
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post #42 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 05:09 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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This doesn't resonate with me.

If I was to divorce, I would still be pretty well off. I would be open to anyone that I got on well with. If they had tons of money fine, but if they were low income, it wouldn't matter to me. I don't see a need for 'financial compatibility'.
All good if it doesn't resonate with you. As you are not divorced and have previously built up assets to protect for yourself or your children then it is a moot point anyway.

If you had a large asset base to protect do you think you would want to do that or it wouldn't matter to you to leave yourself and your kids financially vulnerable?
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post #43 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 05:14 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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..........you will still probably find someone - but that is a whole different discussion. Striving to meet someone else's standards are a recipe for unhappiness. If a woman doesn't want to be with me because I don't make 250k or don't have a 7 figure retirement package, it's good to know. I am much more focused on the things that make me happy to worry about her expectations. As far as I am concerned, it is her loss, not mine. And I am not saying that in a vindictive way. If she thinks a salary and assets are important, that is her choice. It just isn't mine.
Being wealthy and focusing on things that make us happy are not mutually exclusive.

And yes salary and assets are important to me because I have a lot to protect for myself and my kids. Not sure why that is hard for some to understand.
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post #44 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 05:36 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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All good if it doesn't resonate with you. As you are not divorced and have previously built up assets to protect for yourself or your children then it is a moot point anyway.

If you had a large asset base to protect do you think you would want to do that or it wouldn't matter to you to leave yourself and your kids financially vulnerable?
It would be smart to have a prenup to protect your Assets. May set up trusts for the kids. But that doesn't have anything to do with how well off my partner is. Would do that whether they were rich or poor.
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post #45 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 05:38 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Being wealthy and focusing on things that make us happy are not mutually exclusive.

And yes salary and assets are important to me because I have a lot to protect for myself and my kids. Not sure why that is hard for some to understand.
Wouldn't you protect your assets whether you date a rich person or a poor person. What does it matter?
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